Digital BW, The Print

Okay, you've probably had this one a zillion times already.  Here's
zillion-and-one:

I'm in the market for a good photo printer.  I'd like to spend less
than $800.  I typically print black and white, but sometimes do color.
 I'd like relative permanance and as close-to-silver-as-possible for
the money.

I'm moving from the traditional process, so any advice would be
helpful.  Also, if there are any good websites to recommend about
printer selection and reviews, I'd appreciate the referal.

Thanks ahead.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm in the market for a good photo printer. I'd like to spend less
> > than $800. I typically print black and white, but sometimes do color.
> > I'd like relative permanance and as close-to-silver-as-possible for 
> > the money.
> 
> Epson R2400.
>

Why would you recommend it?  (I have peeked at it).

Hello Ned,

>I'm in the market for a good photo printer.  I'd like to spend less
>than $800.  I typically print black and white, but sometimes do 
>color.  I'd like relative permanance and as
>close-to-silver-as-possible for the money.
 

Some other thoughts in addition to everything Peter said abut the 2400
(which I 2nd).  It's normal retail cost is $849 so unless you find a
sale you may be paying a bit more more than $800.

It's a 13" wide printer.  The only other 13 incher they make (Epson is
still considered the best for BW) is the 1800 which is not considered
a good printer for BW.  So it's either the 2400, or a letter size
printer or something bigger (4800 = 17", 7800 = 24", etc).  The 2400
is the smallest they make with ABW and K3 inks.

As for "close-to-silver-as-possible", this is more a matter of paper
than printer.  Crane Silver Rag (SR) is widely considered the paper of
choice if this is your goal

The K3/ABW printers can do excellent BW as is, but can also be used
with a RIP and other inks, so you aren't limited to one approach.



>I'm moving from the traditional process, so any advice would be
>helpful.  Also, if there are any good websites to recommend about
>printer selection and reviews, I'd appreciate the referal.

The link below has a number of articles, not just about printers, but
also about digital BW printing in general, from a technical overview
to some specific how-to articles, including a couple specifically for
the 2400 (#9) and SR paper (#9b).  You might fine something helpful there.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

> I'm in the market for a good photo printer. I'd like to spend less
> than $800. I typically print black and white, but sometimes do color.
> I'd like relative permanance and as close-to-silver-as-possible for 
> the money.

Epson R2400.

nedbuntline2002 wrote:

>
> Why would you recommend it? (I have peeked at it).
I'd recommend it because it does a very good job with both color and bw 
right out of the box.  It has  long lasting pigment inks, and MIS K4 
inks work in it very well.  It works excels with a very wide range of 
papers.   There's a large user base of fine art printers that use the 
Epson.  Finally, mine has been very reliable with excellent quality.


__.

Clayton,

You didn't  tell Ned to mortgage his house to keep
buying ink cartridgesfor the 2400.  I bought one
recently, very pleased with the way it functions and
the quality of my prints, however the ink costs are
outragious.  I buy from Atlex.

Gil DRaper

--- Clayton Jones <cj@...> wrote:

> Hello Ned,
> 
> >I'm in the market for a good photo printer.  I'd
> like to spend less
> >than $800.  I typically print black and white, but
> sometimes do 
> >color.  I'd like relative permanance and as
> >close-to-silver-as-possible for the money.
>  
> 
> Some other thoughts in addition to everything Peter
> said abut the 2400
> (which I 2nd).  It's normal retail cost is $849 so
> unless you find a
> sale you may be paying a bit more more than $800.
> 
> It's a 13" wide printer.  The only other 13 incher
> they make (Epson is
> still considered the best for BW) is the 1800 which
> is not considered
> a good printer for BW.  So it's either the 2400, or
> a letter size
> printer or something bigger (4800 = 17", 7800 = 24",
> etc).  The 2400
> is the smallest they make with ABW and K3 inks.
> 
> As for "close-to-silver-as-possible", this is more a
> matter of paper
> than printer.  Crane Silver Rag (SR) is widely
> considered the paper of
> choice if this is your goal
> 
> The K3/ABW printers can do excellent BW as is, but
> can also be used
> with a RIP and other inks, so you aren't limited to
> one approach.
> 
> 
> 
> >I'm moving from the traditional process, so any
> advice would be
> >helpful.  Also, if there are any good websites to
> recommend about
> >printer selection and reviews, I'd appreciate the
> referal.
> 
> The link below has a number of articles, not just
> about printers, but
> also about digital BW printing in general, from a
> technical overview
> to some specific how-to articles, including a couple
> specifically for
> the 2400 (#9) and SR paper (#9b).  You might fine
> something helpful there.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

>I'm in the market for a good photo printer. I'd like to spend less
>than $800. I typically print black and white, but sometimes do color.
>I'd like relative permanance and as close-to-silver-as-possible for
>the money.

...

The best printer or at least best printer for the money depends on what size
prints you need to make.  

The best relatively neutral prints I've made recently have been, first, at
13", from a 2400 with MIS carbon pigments not only in the LK and LLK
positions, but also in the Y position.  Second, if 8x10 is OK for you, the
C88 with MIS EZ inks.  The paper in both cases was Crane Silver Rag.

The 2400 configured above would require you to re-place the yellow for color
prints.  The C88 is so cheap you can just buy another for color, or do as I
do and replace the B&W inks with color when needed.  They swap in and out
easily.

Many Epson 13" printers will make excellent B&W with dedicated B&W inksets.
Currently the only other new printer of that size that could be appropriate
is the 1280.  It's getting a bit old, but for a new 13" printer it's cheap.

Matte papers can also be printed by all these printers with the appropriate
black in installed, but if you're coming from the darkroom and not
accustomed to a matte finish, the Crane Silver Rag will probably look more
like what you're used to.  Under glass, however, matte paper looks about the
same.

As you might guess, there are lots of variables.  So, reasonable people can
certainly differ.  The 2400 is the best out of the box solution to B&W and
color.  The C88 for glossy and 220 for matte, fitted with appropriate MIS
inksets, are the wild bargains for 8x10 dedicated B&W.

Good luck with your B&W.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

it's true the epson 1800 doesn't print great bw using epson inks, however put some 
piezography k7 inks in and the 1800 shines as a bw printer at about half the cost of the 
2400.  even many 2400 users in this forum seem to use  third party black only inks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, gilbert Draper <gildra38@...> 
wrote:

>
> Clayton,
> 
> You didn't  tell Ned to mortgage his house to keep
> buying ink cartridgesfor the 2400.  I bought one
> recently, very pleased with the way it functions and
> the quality of my prints, however the ink costs are
> outragious.  I buy from Atlex.
> 
> Gil DRaper
> 
> --- Clayton Jones <cj@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Ned,
> > 
> > >I'm in the market for a good photo printer.  I'd
> > like to spend less
> > >than $800.  I typically print black and white, but
> > sometimes do 
> > >color.  I'd like relative permanance and as
> > >close-to-silver-as-possible for the money.
> >  
> > 
> > Some other thoughts in addition to everything Peter
> > said abut the 2400
> > (which I 2nd).  It's normal retail cost is $849 so
> > unless you find a
> > sale you may be paying a bit more more than $800.
> > 
> > It's a 13" wide printer.  The only other 13 incher
> > they make (Epson is
> > still considered the best for BW) is the 1800 which
> > is not considered
> > a good printer for BW.  So it's either the 2400, or
> > a letter size
> > printer or something bigger (4800 = 17", 7800 = 24",
> > etc).  The 2400
> > is the smallest they make with ABW and K3 inks.
> > 
> > As for "close-to-silver-as-possible", this is more a
> > matter of paper
> > than printer.  Crane Silver Rag (SR) is widely
> > considered the paper of
> > choice if this is your goal
> > 
> > The K3/ABW printers can do excellent BW as is, but
> > can also be used
> > with a RIP and other inks, so you aren't limited to
> > one approach.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >I'm moving from the traditional process, so any
> > advice would be
> > >helpful.  Also, if there are any good websites to
> > recommend about
> > >printer selection and reviews, I'd appreciate the
> > referal.
> > 
> > The link below has a number of articles, not just
> > about printers, but
> > also about digital BW printing in general, from a
> > technical overview
> > to some specific how-to articles, including a couple
> > specifically for
> > the 2400 (#9) and SR paper (#9b).  You might fine
> > something helpful there.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

A company who used to be my client manufactures printer ink for
inkjets.  I was told by one of them how much an ounce of ink is sold
for (when parsed into cartridges) and was floored.  I can't remember
how much it was, but it rivals the most expensive substances on the
planet.  That said, I marveled at the huge tanks of the stuff in front
of me.  You would not believe the profit margin on this crap - and yet
we pay it, usually without complaint.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, gilbert Draper
<gildra38@...> wrote:

>
> Clayton,
> 
> You didn't  tell Ned to mortgage his house to keep
> buying ink cartridgesfor the 2400.  I bought one
> recently, very pleased with the way it functions and
> the quality of my prints, however the ink costs are
> outragious.  I buy from Atlex.
> 
> Gil DRaper
> 
> --- Clayton Jones <cj@...> wrote:
> 
> > Hello Ned,
> > 
> > >I'm in the market for a good photo printer.  I'd
> > like to spend less
> > >than $800.  I typically print black and white, but
> > sometimes do 
> > >color.  I'd like relative permanance and as
> > >close-to-silver-as-possible for the money.
> >  
> > 
> > Some other thoughts in addition to everything Peter
> > said abut the 2400
> > (which I 2nd).  It's normal retail cost is $849 so
> > unless you find a
> > sale you may be paying a bit more more than $800.
> > 
> > It's a 13" wide printer.  The only other 13 incher
> > they make (Epson is
> > still considered the best for BW) is the 1800 which
> > is not considered
> > a good printer for BW.  So it's either the 2400, or
> > a letter size
> > printer or something bigger (4800 = 17", 7800 = 24",
> > etc).  The 2400
> > is the smallest they make with ABW and K3 inks.
> > 
> > As for "close-to-silver-as-possible", this is more a
> > matter of paper
> > than printer.  Crane Silver Rag (SR) is widely
> > considered the paper of
> > choice if this is your goal
> > 
> > The K3/ABW printers can do excellent BW as is, but
> > can also be used
> > with a RIP and other inks, so you aren't limited to
> > one approach.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >I'm moving from the traditional process, so any
> > advice would be
> > >helpful.  Also, if there are any good websites to
> > recommend about
> > >printer selection and reviews, I'd appreciate the
> > referal.
> > 
> > The link below has a number of articles, not just
> > about printers, but
> > also about digital BW printing in general, from a
> > technical overview
> > to some specific how-to articles, including a couple
> > specifically for
> > the 2400 (#9) and SR paper (#9b).  You might fine
> > something helpful there.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> > 
> > 
> > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Hello Gil,

> You didn't  tell Ned to mortgage his house to keep
> buying ink cartridgesfor the 2400.  I bought one
> recently, very pleased with the way it functions and
> the quality of my prints, however the ink costs are
> outragious.  I buy from Atlex.

I buy from Atlex too, certainly helps.  I guess I figured that anyone
who gets one and comes here will learn about MIS K4.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

nedbuntline2002 wrote:

> A company who used to be my client manufactures printer ink for
> inkjets. I was told by one of them how much an ounce of ink is sold
> for (when parsed into cartridges) and was floored. I can't remember
> how much it was, but it rivals the most expensive substances on the
> planet. That said, I marveled at the huge tanks of the stuff in front
> of me. You would not believe the profit margin on this crap - and yet
> we pay it, usually without complaint.
Luckily, at least with Epson, we have some choices. I'm using MIS K4 
bulk inks in my r2400, and they've been working well.  I realize that 
I'll probably have to do a new profile whenever I get new bottles of 
ink, but that's a fairly small price to pay compared to buying Epson inks.