Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 9/15/06 11:36:11 AM, fred@... writes:


> Does anyone have any experience printing with Qimage and the 2400
> using the ABW setting (without QTR)? Does the fact that Qimage
> converts grayscale images to rgb have any impact on the results?
> 
> The only workflow I can comment on it the one I've been testing. If you use 
Qimage to print to the 2400 with grayscale files, or with neutral RGB files 
(same thing by the time Qimage processes them), or with tinted RGB files, they 
all print nicely to the 2400 via a PrintFIX PRO 2.0 profile. Without the special 
profile for control of linearity, neutrality, and tint control, the system 
might not offer what you need for precision or control, but certainly with PFP2 
profiles, it will. So yes, there is at least one route available, though the 
one I'm describing is not the one you asked about...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

How is PrintFIX PRO 2.0 different from say RGB profile using say, 
EyeOne?

What do you mean by: "Without the special profile for control of 
linearity, neutrality, and tint control, the system might not offer 
what you need for precision or control, but certainly with PFP2 
profiles, it will."

Thank you.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... 
wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 9/15/06 11:36:11 AM, fred@... writes:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone have any experience printing with Qimage and the 2400
> > using the ABW setting (without QTR)? Does the fact that Qimage
> > converts grayscale images to rgb have any impact on the results?
> > 
> > The only workflow I can comment on it the one I've been testing. 
If you use 
> Qimage to print to the 2400 with grayscale files, or with neutral 
RGB files 
> (same thing by the time Qimage processes them), or with tinted RGB 
files, they 
> all print nicely to the 2400 via a PrintFIX PRO 2.0 profile. 
Without the special 
> profile for control of linearity, neutrality, and tint control, 
the system 
> might not offer what you need for precision or control, but 
certainly with PFP2 
> profiles, it will. So yes, there is at least one route available, 
though the 

> one I'm describing is not the one you asked about...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

In a message dated 9/15/06 2:12:52 PM, shileshjani@... writes:


> How is PrintFIX PRO 2.0 different from say RGB profile using say,
> EyeOne?
> 
I'l post a thorough feature description next week, to put it simply PFP2 has 
a number of features and controls that are designed specifically for b&w and 
tinted b&w. PFP2 includes 33 step ramps of gray, and the six near gray zones 
(CMYRGB) that can be incorporated into the profile. Other features include tools 
for choosing Absolute or Paper Relative grays, feathering the grayramp to 
paper white, and opening shadow detail.
> 
> What do you mean by: "Without the special profile for control of
> linearity, neutrality, and tint control, the system might not offer
> what you need for precision or control, but certainly with PFP2
> profiles, it will."
> 
What I mean is that a standard, color oriented, ICC profile might not do all 
that one wants for B&W.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you David. 

More Qs: Does this mean specific profiles will be created for only 
b/w printing? When will this system be available?

Regards.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... 
wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 9/15/06 2:12:52 PM, shileshjani@... writes:
> 
> 
> > How is PrintFIX PRO 2.0 different from say RGB profile using say,
> > EyeOne?
> > 
> I'l post a thorough feature description next week, to put it simply 
PFP2 has 
> a number of features and controls that are designed specifically 
for b&w and 
> tinted b&w. PFP2 includes 33 step ramps of gray, and the six near 
gray zones 
> (CMYRGB) that can be incorporated into the profile. Other features 
include tools 
> for choosing Absolute or Paper Relative grays, feathering the 
grayramp to 
> paper white, and opening shadow detail.
> > 
> > What do you mean by: "Without the special profile for control of
> > linearity, neutrality, and tint control, the system might not 
offer
> > what you need for precision or control, but certainly with PFP2
> > profiles, it will."
> > 
> What I mean is that a standard, color oriented, ICC profile might 
not do all 

> that one wants for B&W.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Division
> DataColor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

In a message dated 9/17/06 1:42:54 PM, shileshjani@... writes:


> More Qs: Does this mean specific profiles will be created for only
> b/w printing? When will this system be available?
> 
You will be able to augment any PrintFIX PRO 2.0 color profile (including 
existing PrintFIX PRO v1 measurement sets, if you don't wish to rebuild from 
scratch) with the additional gray and near gray data for higher precision B&W or 
Tinted B&W printing. You will also be able to build "Tinted Profiles" where you 
can incorporate tints, cross tints, ramping of graytones to paper white, and 
other such details. That way you can take a neutral RGB or grayscale image, 
and preview it via such a profile to determine if that particular tint set, on 
that particular paper, will be a good match for the image, then adjust the 
image visually to optimize it for that combination (if necessary), then print the 
image through the tinted profile to result in a tinted print. Some users 
prefer tinted output from grayscale files, others prefer working with RGB files, 
tinting in photoshop, then printing through a universal profile. So PrintFIX PRO 
2.0 will support both workflows, plus the crossover where you determine your 
optimal tints in Photoshop, as a curve set, then once you have it finalized, 
import that curve set into PrintFIX PRO and build it into your profile, so that 
you no longer need to apply it to each image, you can just print through the 
profile that incorporates it.

As to the timeframe: the product should be available for beta next month, and 
available for general download not too long after that. Thats the English 
language version; we always have to play catch-up with the international version, 
once the English one is finalized. Anyone who is already on the PrintFIX beta 
list will be included in this beta test. Anyone already owning PrintFIX PRO, 
and interested in testing this version can contact me OFF LIST with your full 
name and contact info, and I will sign you up for the v2 beta.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David, how much of this applies to the 2200? Conversly, could one profile a
2200 where one ink (e.g. yellow) has been removed and replace by a LLK? How
about 2200 using the UT-3 monochrome ink set?

Thanks - Terry.

> CDTobie@... wrote:

> You will be able to augment any PrintFIX PRO 2.0 color 
> profile (including existing PrintFIX PRO v1 measurement sets, 
> if you don't wish to rebuild from
> scratch) with the additional gray and near gray data for 
> higher precision B&W or Tinted B&W printing. You will also be 
> able to build "Tinted Profiles" where you can incorporate 
> tints, cross tints, ramping of graytones to paper white, and 
> other such details. That way you can take a neutral RGB or 
> grayscale image, and preview it via such a profile to 
> determine if that particular tint set, on that particular 
> paper, will be a good match for the image, then adjust the 
> image visually to optimize it for that combination (if 
> necessary), then print the image through the tinted profile 
> to result in a tinted print. Some users prefer tinted output 
> from grayscale files, others prefer working with RGB files, 
> tinting in photoshop, then printing through a universal 
> profile. So PrintFIX PRO 2.0 will support both workflows, 
> plus the crossover where you determine your optimal tints in 
> Photoshop, as a curve set, then once you have it finalized, 
> import that curve set into PrintFIX PRO and build it into 
> your profile, so that you no longer need to apply it to each 
> image, you can just print through the profile that incorporates it.

In a message dated 9/19/06 12:34:53 AM, t.ritz@... writes:


> David, how much of this applies to the 2200?
> 
All of it, except that one can't expect true Gallery Quality B&W from a 
printer that prints its light grays from colored ink. Still, with that limitation 
(and the metamerism it entails) results are quite good, though not as precise 
as the 2400 can manage.

>  Conversly, could one profile a
> 2200 where one ink (e.g. yellow) has been removed and replace by a LLK? How
> about 2200 using the UT-3 monochrome ink set?
> 
ICC process is based on colored inks. The driver is too. Replacing the yellow 
in the 2200 will print light grays with a mix of the replacement gray, light 
cyan, and light magenta through the driver. Might profile okay, and at least 
the metameric yellow is gone. If not, you need to move to a RIP and all that 
entails if you start messing with the inks.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those of us dabbling in B&W and maintaining Color functionality with our
2400s--

If we replace yellow for LLK to print BW, would it be as simple as putting
back the yellow cart when we need color? Or is there a fancy, ink-intensive
flushing protocol required first to go back? At the risk of repeating a
question: Will any special settings in ABW be required when running an
inkset with replaced Y => carbon LLK?


On 9/19/06 1:49 PM, "CDTobie@..." <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> In a message dated 9/19/06 12:34:53 AM, t.ritz@...
> <mailto:t.ritz%40accesscomm.ca>  writes:
> 
>> > David, how much of this applies to the 2200?
>> > 
> All of it, except that one can't expect true Gallery Quality B&W from a
> printer that prints its light grays from colored ink. Still, with that
> limitation 
> (and the metamerism it entails) results are quite good, though not as precise
> as the 2400 can manage.
> 
>> >  Conversly, could one profile a
>> > 2200 where one ink (e.g. yellow) has been removed and replace by a LLK? How
>> > about 2200 using the UT-3 monochrome ink set?
>> > 
> ICC process is based on colored inks. The driver is too. Replacing the yellow
> in the 2200 will print light grays with a mix of the replacement gray, light
> cyan, and light magenta through the driver. Might profile okay, and at least
> the metameric yellow is gone. If not, you need to move to a RIP and all that
> entails if you start messing with the inks.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com>
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
>     


-- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>For those of us dabbling in B&W and maintaining Color 
>functionality with our 2400s--

>If we replace yellow for LLK to print BW,

MIS EZ-W-Yellow appears to be even better than LLK -- chip compatibility and
smoother.

> would it be as simple as putting back the yellow cart when we need color?

That's it -- just swap one cart back and forth.  There is some ink lost in
the cleaning cycle the printer does.  This might even be minimized by doing
it with the printer off.  Then just print a yellow purge pattern to clear
the head of the previous ink.

> Will any special settings in ABW be required when running an
> inkset with replaced Y => carbon LLK?

The ABW "thinks" it has high gamut yellow.  So, you'll be moving the points
on the ABW chart up toward yellow to compensate for the "yellow" now being a
very low gamut yellow.  (0, 0) will produce a cold print, not a neutral one.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul, does MIS have EZ-W-Yellow available preloaded in a 2200
cartridge? I can't seem to find anything.

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> >For those of us dabbling in B&W and maintaining Color 
> >functionality with our 2400s--
> 
> >If we replace yellow for LLK to print BW,
> 
> MIS EZ-W-Yellow appears to be even better than LLK -- chip
compatibility and
> smoother.

I think the C82 used 2200 type carts.  See http://www.inksupply.com/utez.cfm
I don't know if the C82 yellow chip will work in the 2200.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Ritz
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2400, ABW and Qimage

 

Paul, does MIS have EZ-W-Yellow available preloaded in a 2200
cartridge? I can't seem to find anything.

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> >For those of us dabbling in B&W and maintaining Color 
> >functionality with our 2400s--
> 
> >If we replace yellow for LLK to print BW,
> 
> MIS EZ-W-Yellow appears to be even better than LLK -- chip
compatibility and
> smoother.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]