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Ilford Smooth Pearl

Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-09 by Andy

Yeah..this paper again.

I've been through the commentary, and done some web searches, but I am 
not finding anyting much on the longevity of this paper (2400 K3, or 
even 2200 UC).  Ilford's site says something about ten years.  !!!!  
This can't be right...can it?  The paper makes beautiful prints, but 
if it is only 10 years worth of fade resistance, then it is not 
something I want to stock up on

Anyone have any info on this paper's longevity (BW and color - R2400)?

Thanks

RE: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-09 by Paul Roark

It has an acidic paper base.  That is the problem, not fading.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:34 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

 

Yeah..this paper again.

I've been through the commentary, and done some web searches, but I am 
not finding anyting much on the longevity of this paper (2400 K3, or 
even 2200 UC). Ilford's site says something about ten years. !!!! 
This can't be right...can it? The paper makes beautiful prints, but 
if it is only 10 years worth of fade resistance, then it is not 
something I want to stock up on

Anyone have any info on this paper's longevity (BW and color - R2400)?

Thanks

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by GJ Kunze

can you explain what this means?
If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
Thank you,
George
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Roark<mailto:paul.roark@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
  Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:08 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl


  It has an acidic paper base. That is the problem, not fading.

  Paul

  www.PaulRoark.com<http://www.paulroark.com/> <http://www.paulroark.com/<http://www.paulroark.com/>> 

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Andy
  Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:34 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Subject: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

  Yeah..this paper again.

  I've been through the commentary, and done some web searches, but I am 
  not finding anyting much on the longevity of this paper (2400 K3, or 
  even 2200 UC). Ilford's site says something about ten years. !!!! 
  This can't be right...can it? The paper makes beautiful prints, but 
  if it is only 10 years worth of fade resistance, then it is not 
  something I want to stock up on

  Anyone have any info on this paper's longevity (BW and color - R2400)?

  Thanks

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Peter De Smidt

> can you explain what this means?
> If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
Acidic paper yellows over time.

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Andy-J

Oh boy....so I have probably been misreading a lot of numbers.  I always
assumed the longevity figures were fade figures and there was no other
variable.

What I am doing is comparing Epson Prem Luster with Smoth Pearl - prints
look very similar.  Price does not.  EPL has a long fade life.....but what
is its status with the acidic  base?  Does it not have one?


On 10/9/06, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
>   > can you explain what this means?
> > If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
> Acidic paper yellows over time.
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Alan Zimmerman

I ,too, have been searching for an economical  luster paper with archival qualities, hopefully with a bit more substance. Has anybody found an equal or near equal to Silver rag at a more economical price point.?
Alan Zimmerman
ph 316-722-4802
cell 316-208-4802
fax 316-260-5446
azimmerman1@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andy-J 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: 10/10/2006 6:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl


  Oh boy....so I have probably been misreading a lot of numbers. I always
  assumed the longevity figures were fade figures and there was no other
  variable.

  What I am doing is comparing Epson Prem Luster with Smoth Pearl - prints
  look very similar. Price does not. EPL has a long fade life.....but what
  is its status with the acidic base? Does it not have one?

  On 10/9/06, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
  >
  > > can you explain what this means?
  > > If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
  > Acidic paper yellows over time.
  >
  > 
  >

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by GJ Kunze

Thank you,
George
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter De Smidt<mailto:pdesmidt@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 12:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl


  > can you explain what this means?
  > If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
  Acidic paper yellows over time.



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by GJ Kunze

I guess I have also been misunderstanding the whole issue.
So where does that leave Kodak, whose claim that their pro paper lasts a lifetime?
And yes, the Epson also?
Is anything as it's claimed?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andy-J<mailto:andyj1011@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl


  Oh boy....so I have probably been misreading a lot of numbers. I always
  assumed the longevity figures were fade figures and there was no other
  variable.

  What I am doing is comparing Epson Prem Luster with Smoth Pearl - prints
  look very similar. Price does not. EPL has a long fade life.....but what
  is its status with the acidic base? Does it not have one?

  On 10/9/06, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@...<mailto:pdesmidt@...>> wrote:
  >
  > > can you explain what this means?
  > > If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
  > Acidic paper yellows over time.
  >
  > 
  >

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by dgattarino

Hello Paul,

  do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same problems?
I recollect having read somewore that the paper pase is buffered.
Thanks,

Ciao
  Daniela





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It has an acidic paper base.  That is the problem, not fading.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:34 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl
> 
>  
> 
> Yeah..this paper again.
> 
> I've been through the commentary, and done some web searches, but I am 
> not finding anyting much on the longevity of this paper (2400 K3, or 
> even 2200 UC). Ilford's site says something about ten years. !!!! 
> This can't be right...can it? The paper makes beautiful prints, but 
> if it is only 10 years worth of fade resistance, then it is not 
> something I want to stock up on
> 
> Anyone have any info on this paper's longevity (BW and color - R2400)?
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Paul Roark

>do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same problems?

My Abbey Publications acid test pen (from (512) 929-3992) indicates the
Kirkland glossy paper base is much more neutral.  It probably is buffered.  

Whether it has enough buffering in it for the long haul is harder to tell.
The ratio of lignin to buffering is the issue.  Some standards call for less
than 1% lignin and more than 2% calcium carbonate.  In cheap paper with lots
of lignin, the acids they put out will eventually overwhelm the buffering.
Also, lignin itself is photo sensitive, turning brown in the sun.  Buffered
newsprint still turns brown. 

The Epson Premium glossy, etc. papers are well buffered and archival.

The new glossy papers -- Crane Silver Rag, etc. -- appear to be well
buffered and acid free.

As an old fan of Kodak and still faithful user of its discontinued Technical
Pan film, it pains me to say this, but I no longer believe anything they
say.  I tested one of their vaunted swellable emulsion dye papers and it was
the worst in the test.  They consider a "year" of display to be half the
amount of light Wilhelm and others use.  In general, my experience is that
failing companies engage in this sort of thing in an effort to survive, and
that appears to be the mode Kodak is in.

The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is indeed archival) are the
low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like Premier Art Premium Matte.
See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Joseph Chandler

O.K. folks, a little help here please.  I just set up
my Epson R1800!  I printed some Butterflies on Epson
Ultra Premium Glossy  and the results were fine. 

So I have two questions: can I print both B&W (My
heart) and color from this printer and not worry? And
what ink set from MIS would be best? 

Joe Chandler, infrequent participant 

--- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> 
> >do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same
> problems?
> 
> My Abbey Publications acid test pen (from (512)
> 929-3992) indicates the
> Kirkland glossy paper base is much more neutral.  It
> probably is buffered.  
> 
> Whether it has enough buffering in it for the long
> haul is harder to tell.
> The ratio of lignin to buffering is the issue.  Some
> standards call for less
> than 1% lignin and more than 2% calcium carbonate. 
> In cheap paper with lots
> of lignin, the acids they put out will eventually
> overwhelm the buffering.
> Also, lignin itself is photo sensitive, turning
> brown in the sun.  Buffered
> newsprint still turns brown. 
> 
> The Epson Premium glossy, etc. papers are well
> buffered and archival.
> 
> The new glossy papers -- Crane Silver Rag, etc. --
> appear to be well
> buffered and acid free.
> 
> As an old fan of Kodak and still faithful user of
> its discontinued Technical
> Pan film, it pains me to say this, but I no longer
> believe anything they
> say.  I tested one of their vaunted swellable
> emulsion dye papers and it was
> the worst in the test.  They consider a "year" of
> display to be half the
> amount of light Wilhelm and others use.  In general,
> my experience is that
> failing companies engage in this sort of thing in an
> effort to survive, and
> that appears to be the mode Kodak is in.
> 
> The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is
> indeed archival) are the
> low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like
> Premier Art Premium Matte.
> See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com   
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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[Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by dgattarino

Paul,
Thank you for your reply. I am amazed by the amount of informations
you carry.
BTW, I tought you were in love with Moab's papers, when speaking of
ceap and good stuff. 
Did that eventually changed?

Ciao,
  Daniela




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> >do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same problems?
> 
> My Abbey Publications acid test pen (from (512) 929-3992) indicates the
> Kirkland glossy paper base is much more neutral.  It probably is
buffered.  
> 
> Whether it has enough buffering in it for the long haul is harder to
tell.
> The ratio of lignin to buffering is the issue.  Some standards call
for less
> than 1% lignin and more than 2% calcium carbonate.  In cheap paper
with lots
> of lignin, the acids they put out will eventually overwhelm the
buffering.
> Also, lignin itself is photo sensitive, turning brown in the sun. 
Buffered
> newsprint still turns brown. 
> 
> The Epson Premium glossy, etc. papers are well buffered and archival.
> 
> The new glossy papers -- Crane Silver Rag, etc. -- appear to be well
> buffered and acid free.
> 
> As an old fan of Kodak and still faithful user of its discontinued
Technical
> Pan film, it pains me to say this, but I no longer believe anything they
> say.  I tested one of their vaunted swellable emulsion dye papers
and it was
> the worst in the test.  They consider a "year" of display to be half the
> amount of light Wilhelm and others use.  In general, my experience
is that
> failing companies engage in this sort of thing in an effort to
survive, and
> that appears to be the mode Kodak is in.
> 
> The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is indeed archival)
are the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like Premier Art Premium Matte.
> See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

RE: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Eric Neilsen

One needs to be very careful in how you interpret the application of the
term "archival" to a media.  Much of the test data that is being shared is
not being shared out of the kindness of these corporations but rather as a
marketing tool. Buyer beware, be very aware! I believe it is precisely for
these reasons that artists working with this media will continue to have it
hard when teaching the public, gallery owners and buyers, which is and is
not, hype vs reality.  

 

Good luck

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alan
Zimmerman
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:04 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

 

I ,too, have been searching for an economical luster paper with archival
qualities, hopefully with a bit more substance. Has anybody found an equal
or near equal to Silver rag at a more economical price point.?
Alan Zimmerman
ph 316-722-4802
cell 316-208-4802
fax 316-260-5446
azimmerman1@ <mailto:azimmerman1%40cox.net> cox.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andy-J 
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: 10/10/2006 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ilford Smooth Pearl

Oh boy....so I have probably been misreading a lot of numbers. I always
assumed the longevity figures were fade figures and there was no other
variable.

What I am doing is comparing Epson Prem Luster with Smoth Pearl - prints
look very similar. Price does not. EPL has a long fade life.....but what
is its status with the acidic base? Does it not have one?

On 10/9/06, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt@tds. <mailto:pdesmidt%40tds.net> net>
wrote:
>
> > can you explain what this means?
> > If it doesn't fade, what does it do in ten years?
> Acidic paper yellows over time.
>
> 
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-10 by Paul Roark

Daniela, 

> Paul, ... I thought you were in love with Moab's papers, 
> when speaking of cheap and good stuff. ...

No. 

I understand they have a new coating that does not flake as much.  I'll have
to give that a try.  I'd love to have another good, "natural" (no OBAs)
matte paper again if the problems with flaking have been solved.  (Higher
dmax would also be appreciated.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-11 by kraazy_larry

Also check the prices at IT Supplies <http://www.itsupplies.com/cgi-bin/
itsupplies.storefront/452cd4d4012cf84627414200c1490619/Catalog/1623>
With free shipping for orders 75.00 and over the price is hard to beat. Shipping is fast. 
They have two distribution centers to speed things along.

Larry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is indeed archival) are the
> low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like Premier Art Premium Matte.
> See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

[Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-11 by steveh0607

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Chandler 
<over40_98@...> wrote:
>
Try the NK7 inks from Cone, they work fantastic.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> O.K. folks, a little help here please.  I just set up
> my Epson R1800!  I printed some Butterflies on Epson
> Ultra Premium Glossy  and the results were fine. 
> 
> So I have two questions: can I print both B&W (My
> heart) and color from this printer and not worry? And
> what ink set from MIS would be best? 
> 
> Joe Chandler, infrequent participant 
> 
> --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > >do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same
> > problems?
> > 
> > My Abbey Publications acid test pen (from (512)
> > 929-3992) indicates the
> > Kirkland glossy paper base is much more neutral.  It
> > probably is buffered.  
> > 
> > Whether it has enough buffering in it for the long
> > haul is harder to tell.
> > The ratio of lignin to buffering is the issue.  Some
> > standards call for less
> > than 1% lignin and more than 2% calcium carbonate. 
> > In cheap paper with lots
> > of lignin, the acids they put out will eventually
> > overwhelm the buffering.
> > Also, lignin itself is photo sensitive, turning
> > brown in the sun.  Buffered
> > newsprint still turns brown. 
> > 
> > The Epson Premium glossy, etc. papers are well
> > buffered and archival.
> > 
> > The new glossy papers -- Crane Silver Rag, etc. --
> > appear to be well
> > buffered and acid free.
> > 
> > As an old fan of Kodak and still faithful user of
> > its discontinued Technical
> > Pan film, it pains me to say this, but I no longer
> > believe anything they
> > say.  I tested one of their vaunted swellable
> > emulsion dye papers and it was
> > the worst in the test.  They consider a "year" of
> > display to be half the
> > amount of light Wilhelm and others use.  In general,
> > my experience is that
> > failing companies engage in this sort of thing in an
> > effort to survive, and
> > that appears to be the mode Kodak is in.
> > 
> > The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is
> > indeed archival) are the
> > low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like
> > Premier Art Premium Matte.
> > See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html 
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl

2006-10-11 by David Whistance

I agree that the NK7 inks work really well with this printer, however sadly
they won't work on any glossy papers.

David Whistance
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of steveh0607
  Sent: 11 October 2006 14:09
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Ilford Smooth Pearl


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Chandler
  <over40_98@...> wrote:
  >
  Try the NK7 inks from Cone, they work fantastic.

  > O.K. folks, a little help here please. I just set up
  > my Epson R1800! I printed some Butterflies on Epson
  > Ultra Premium Glossy and the results were fine.
  >
  > So I have two questions: can I print both B&W (My
  > heart) and color from this printer and not worry? And
  > what ink set from MIS would be best?
  >
  > Joe Chandler, infrequent participant
  >
  > --- Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
  >
  > >
  > > >do you know if Costco's Kirkland paper has the same
  > > problems?
  > >
  > > My Abbey Publications acid test pen (from (512)
  > > 929-3992) indicates the
  > > Kirkland glossy paper base is much more neutral. It
  > > probably is buffered.
  > >
  > > Whether it has enough buffering in it for the long
  > > haul is harder to tell.
  > > The ratio of lignin to buffering is the issue. Some
  > > standards call for less
  > > than 1% lignin and more than 2% calcium carbonate.
  > > In cheap paper with lots
  > > of lignin, the acids they put out will eventually
  > > overwhelm the buffering.
  > > Also, lignin itself is photo sensitive, turning
  > > brown in the sun. Buffered
  > > newsprint still turns brown.
  > >
  > > The Epson Premium glossy, etc. papers are well
  > > buffered and archival.
  > >
  > > The new glossy papers -- Crane Silver Rag, etc. --
  > > appear to be well
  > > buffered and acid free.
  > >
  > > As an old fan of Kodak and still faithful user of
  > > its discontinued Technical
  > > Pan film, it pains me to say this, but I no longer
  > > believe anything they
  > > say. I tested one of their vaunted swellable
  > > emulsion dye papers and it was
  > > the worst in the test. They consider a "year" of
  > > display to be half the
  > > amount of light Wilhelm and others use. In general,
  > > my experience is that
  > > failing companies engage in this sort of thing in an
  > > effort to survive, and
  > > that appears to be the mode Kodak is in.
  > >
  > > The cheapest archival papers (unless Kirkland is
  > > indeed archival) are the
  > > low-priced, highly buffered matte papers like
  > > Premier Art Premium Matte.
  > > See http://www.photowarehouse.biz/premier.html
  > >
  > > Paul
  > > www.PaulRoark.com
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com
  >



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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