Digital BW, The Print

Hi Diane,
Piezography is an out-of-the-box printing solution that comes with its own
driver, profiles for a zillion papers, tech support, and inks. MIS FS is a
set of inks 'coming soon in 3 colours' to work with the piezo software so
you can take avantage of the cone system without paying a fortune for inks.
MIS VM gives you variable tone prints - again in many flavours using free
curves from paul.
I've seen prints on 6 ink printers from MIS VM and they are wonderful.
Totally smooth, great blacks, continuous tone, the works.
I've used Piezo and I now use Piezo with mis fs. They both work well. Piezo
has tech support second to none. The software is great with new profiles
being added all the time. The inks are warmer than FS. I - and others - had
problems with clogs, green gunge in the CIS and density shifts. Many many
folk have no problem at all. However once I'd tried FS I couldn't see the
point in paying over the odds for ink. MIS inks may be cheaper, but they are
not poorer quality.
I had a friend over from the UK this week and we spent the best part of the
week going over my prints, prints from exchanges, Mike Ks wonderful 22"
print from his 7000, and never once, from all the systems used, did he
dismiss the print quality. Now is a great time to get into inkjet printing.
The only real difference now is finding a 'look' that you like and a
workflow that you like. As a cheap tester why not get some MIS VM? You've
only lost 60USD if you decide to get a piezo system later.



Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 5:41 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


> Newbie question here.  I have read both Jon Cone's page and the MIS
page--I've looked at the comparisons of the MIS and the Piezography system.
However, I get the impression that many here use the MIS inks, Paul Roark's
curves, etc.  I would really appreciate some input as to how both work in
'real life'.  Also, I know the Piezography system is quite pricey.  Does
that influence any of you??
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Diane
> ----------
> Diane B. Fields
> picnic@...
> photo site    http://www.pbase.com/picnic
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>
>
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>
>

I've used both. There is absolutely no difference in quality. No
difference in tonality or sharpness. The piezo inks are brown on pure
white papers, which I don't like, especially for Snow scenes. And of
course the Piezo inks are priced nearly 6 times what MIS are priced at,
plus you need Jon Cone's software. 

When he was the only game in town, It was the greatest. But there are
many more choices now, and he is the only one still charging highly
inflated prices for his inks.

Jerry



Diane Fields wrote:

> 
> Newbie question here.  I have read both Jon Cone's page and the MIS page--I've looked at the comparisons of the MIS and the Piezography system.  However, I get the impression that many here use the MIS inks, Paul Roark's curves, etc.  I would really appreciate some input as to how both work in 'real life'.  Also, I know the Piezography system is quite pricey.  Does that influence any of you??
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Diane
> ----------
> Diane B. Fields
> picnic@...
> photo site    http://www.pbase.com/picnic
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

To the list --

I gather that some people are using MIS FS inks with the Piezography driver 
in Epson 1160s. In which chambers of the color cartridge do the inks go?

MIS recommends the following sequence for their standard monochrome inks:
25% -- Cyan chamber
50% -- Yellow chamber
75% -- Magenta chamber

Should the FS inks be sequenced per the MIS recommendation or in some other 
order?

Thanx.

-- Victor Landweber

> But there are
> many more choices now...

Jerry,

What ARE the many other choices?  Would you mind listing them out, with a
URL, if you please?

Regards,

Austin

The new Image4print desktop and pro rips which work with a whole bag of
inks:
The MIS FS variants (3 flavours currently i think) with or without piezo
software
MIS VM in all it's flavours (2 or three)
Lyson
 etc etc

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroom@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


>
>
> > But there are
> > many more choices now...
>
> Jerry,
>
> What ARE the many other choices?  Would you mind listing them out, with a
> URL, if you please?
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 1/21/2002 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
julianthomas@... writes:


> The new Image4print desktop and pro rips which work with a whole bag of
> inks:
> 

Could you please post a url for info on Image4print rips?
Thank you,
George J Kunze


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Austin, what is this in regard to, different brands of inks?

Jerry

Austin Franklin wrote:

> 
> > But there are
> > many more choices now...
> 
> Jerry,
> 
> What ARE the many other choices?  Would you mind listing them out, with a
> URL, if you please?
>

Sure http://www.colorbytesoftware.com/

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: <toomagenta@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


> In a message dated 1/21/2002 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> julianthomas@... writes:
>
>
> > The new Image4print desktop and pro rips which work with a whole bag of
> > inks:
> >
>
> Could you please post a url for info on Image4print rips?
> Thank you,
> George J Kunze
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Printing methods...aside from using the Piezo inks and Piezo driver...  You
said there were "many more choices" in printing methods aside from the
Cone/Piezo system.

Regards,

Austin

> Austin, what is this in regard to, different brands of inks?
>
> Jerry
>
> Austin Franklin wrote:
> >
> > > But there are
> > > many more choices now...
> >
> > Jerry,
> >
> > What ARE the many other choices?  Would you mind listing them
> out, with a
> > URL, if you please?
> >

Michael,
Do you know if ImagePrint has a version for the 1270/80/90 printers. I
checked Colorbyte's website and couldn't find an answer.
Thanks
Peter Lindman 

Michael Kravit wrote:

> 
> ImagePrint 4 is developed by Colorbyte Software in Tampa, Florida.
> 
> www.colorbytesoftware.com
> 
> The RIP is tremendous. I have been using it on my 7000 with MIS FS
> inks for about two months.  FWIW, the new Piezography 2 system being
> announced in Orlando at PMA next week is ImagePrint 4 based.
> 
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: toomagenta@...
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:27 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography
> 
>   In a message dated 1/21/2002 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>   julianthomas@... writes:
> 
>   > The new Image4print desktop and pro rips which work with a whole
> bag of
>   > inks:
>   >
> 
>   Could you please post a url for info on Image4print rips?
>   Thank you,
>   George J Kunze
> 
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Jeez, my print is travelling internationally now!

Whats next?

BTW folks, I just had to announce that my good friend Mark Klett is hosting a photo expedition into the Nevada desert this May. The trip will begin in Las Vegas on May 17 and end up back in vegas on the 26th. If anyone is interested there are a number of spots available. I will be there with my son and we shaoul all have a blast. We will be camping out in the desert almost nighly. If anyone doesn not know Mark, he teaches at Arizona State University and has published a number of books on desert imagery.

Mike

Michael J. Kravit
Architect/Photographer
Boca Raton, Florida

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Julian Thomas 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


  Hi Diane,
  Piezography is an out-of-the-box printing solution that comes with its own
  driver, profiles for a zillion papers, tech support, and inks. MIS FS is a
  set of inks 'coming soon in 3 colours' to work with the piezo software so
  you can take avantage of the cone system without paying a fortune for inks.
  MIS VM gives you variable tone prints - again in many flavours using free
  curves from paul.
  I've seen prints on 6 ink printers from MIS VM and they are wonderful.
  Totally smooth, great blacks, continuous tone, the works.
  I've used Piezo and I now use Piezo with mis fs. They both work well. Piezo
  has tech support second to none. The software is great with new profiles
  being added all the time. The inks are warmer than FS. I - and others - had
  problems with clogs, green gunge in the CIS and density shifts. Many many
  folk have no problem at all. However once I'd tried FS I couldn't see the
  point in paying over the odds for ink. MIS inks may be cheaper, but they are
  not poorer quality.
  I had a friend over from the UK this week and we spent the best part of the
  week going over my prints, prints from exchanges, Mike Ks wonderful 22"
  print from his 7000, and never once, from all the systems used, did he
  dismiss the print quality. Now is a great time to get into inkjet printing.
  The only real difference now is finding a 'look' that you like and a
  workflow that you like. As a cheap tester why not get some MIS VM? You've
  only lost 60USD if you decide to get a piezo system later.



  Julian
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Diane Fields" <picnic@...>
  To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 5:41 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


  > Newbie question here.  I have read both Jon Cone's page and the MIS
  page--I've looked at the comparisons of the MIS and the Piezography system.
  However, I get the impression that many here use the MIS inks, Paul Roark's
  curves, etc.  I would really appreciate some input as to how both work in
  'real life'.  Also, I know the Piezography system is quite pricey.  Does
  that influence any of you??
  >
  > Thanks in advance,
  > Diane
  > ----------
  > Diane B. Fields
  > picnic@...
  > photo site    http://www.pbase.com/picnic
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
  other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
  >
  > Please follow these basic guidelines:
  > - Include your full name with your message.
  > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
  them short.
  > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
  resources on the homepage.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >
  >


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ImagePrint 4 is developed by Colorbyte Software in Tampa, Florida.

www.colorbytesoftware.com

The RIP is tremendous. I have been using it on my 7000 with MIS FS inks for about two months.  FWIW, the new Piezography 2 system being announced in Orlando at PMA next week is ImagePrint 4 based.

Mike

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: toomagenta@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 2:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


  In a message dated 1/21/2002 2:50:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
  julianthomas@... writes:


  > The new Image4print desktop and pro rips which work with a whole bag of
  > inks:
  > 

  Could you please post a url for info on Image4print rips?
  Thank you,
  George J Kunze


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I almost forgot, Marks Expedition is being arranged through Anderson 
Ranch Arts Center. www.andersonranch.org

Mike

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael Kravit" 
<michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> Jeez, my print is travelling internationally now!
> 
> Whats next?
> 
> BTW folks, I just had to announce that my good friend Mark Klett is 
hosting a photo expedition into the Nevada desert this May. The trip 
will begin in Las Vegas on May 17 and end up back in vegas on the 
26th. If anyone is interested there are a number of spots available. 
I will be there with my son and we shaoul all have a blast. We will 
be camping out in the desert almost nighly. If anyone doesn not know 
Mark, he teaches at Arizona State University and has published a 
number of books on desert imagery.

Peter,

I believe that they either support or will be supporting the 1280. They just released a MAC version as well.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to the Piezo 2VR info available on www.piezography.com, the 1270
and 1280 will be supported. I would assume this indicates software support
in the underlying RIP.

Nij

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Lindman [mailto:plindman@...]
> Sent: 22 January 2002 01:16
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography
>
>
> Michael,
> Do you know if ImagePrint has a version for the 1270/80/90 printers. I
> checked Colorbyte's website and couldn't find an answer.
> Thanks
> Peter Lindman

> Jeez, my print is travelling internationally now!
>
it isn't moving out of the door - that is a treasured image! Whenever
printers come to look at prints I always show my A3 boxes first and then
drag that out (unless they are there to buy and then it stays hidden!).

Julian

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" 
<julianthomas@t...> wrote:
>and then "drag" that out 

Hmm, "drag" it out eh? Must be heavy?

>(unless they are there to buy and then it stays hidden!).

I can send you a few dozen images to help round out your sales 
inventory. ;-)

Mike

Inventory isn't the problem 0-) I am being studiously and unanimously
ignored by all galleries and magazines I approach... I'm girding my loins
for an assault on the US market i.e. god knows how many A4 photorapg
portfolios sent cold... I've also got a reserarch job which entails me to
read far too much Chomsky so I'm depressed!

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "mkravit" <michael.kravit@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS vs. Piezography


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas"
> <julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> >and then "drag" that out
>
> Hmm, "drag" it out eh? Must be heavy?
>
> >(unless they are there to buy and then it stays hidden!).
>
> I can send you a few dozen images to help round out your sales
> inventory. ;-)
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Well, there's We ink, Stadeletter ink, MIS full Spectrum inks, MIS sepia
to Neutral ink, MIS Variable cold tone inks, their standard inkset,
Lincoln quad inks, Indelible inks, Lyson Inks, cold, neutral, and warm,
etc. etc.

Lots of choices. I meant ink choices. Piezo is fine, if you like warm
tones and high prices. Its a great closed system, but not for me.

Of course some will need a lot of experimenting and curve writing, but
some are all set and in place now.

Jerry