Digital BW, The Print

Via Mike Johnston's blog, and as if timed to illustrate this board's
"Greyscale vs Color" thread, The Photographers' Gallery in London just
opened an exhibit of recently rediscovered color images from the US
Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information, taken between
1939 and 1943.

The Guardian has a slide show and a report that wonders how our
perceptions pf the era were influenced by the black and white nature
of the record.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1959587,00.html

Or browse the collection at the Library of Congress:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsachtml/fsowhome.html

-- Bob L

Wasn't this released in the spring of this year. I remember looking  
at this stuff this summer.

On Dec 5, 2006, at 7:16 PM, l33ry wrote:

> Via Mike Johnston's blog, and as if timed to illustrate this board's
> "Greyscale vs Color" thread, The Photographers' Gallery in London just
> opened an exhibit of recently rediscovered color images from the US
> Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information, taken between
> 1939 and 1943.
>
> The Guardian has a slide show and a report that wonders how our
> perceptions pf the era were influenced by the black and white nature
> of the record.
>
> http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1959587,00.html
>
> Or browse the collection at the Library of Congress:
>
> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsachtml/fsowhome.html
>
> -- Bob L
>
>
>
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>
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I believe you're right, but this week the show opened in London.

- Bob L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> Wasn't this released in the spring of this year. I remember looking  
> at this stuff this summer.
>

Correction, it *will* open in London this week, officially on Dec. 8.
Thus the buzz. And to set the record straight, the show, titled "Bound
for Glory", debuted at the Library of Congress in September 2005.
After London, it will move to University of Kentucky Art Museum,
Lexington, KY, January 21--April 15, 2007.

There is also a companion "Bound for Glory" hardcover book/catalog.

- Bob L

"The original goal of the government project was to record
through documentary photographs the ravages of the Depression on
America's rural population and were intended to spur Congress and the
American public to support government relief efforts. Over the years,
with an improved economy, increased industrialization, and the onset
of World War II, the photographs increasingly focused on an America
that was productive, beautiful, and determined. The photographs
originally intended to have a narrow focus developed into a noteworthy
broader national record.

"In additions to their documentary and historic value, the color
images in the FSA/OWI Collection provide a remarkable opportunity to
study the early use of color film as it was employed by a dedicated
group of professional photographers -- who generally took
black-and-white images. It is revealing to compare monochrome and
color images taken on the same shoot, or to identify particular
landscapes or subjects that caught the photographer's eye in such a
way that he or she chose to use the medium of color to best represent
their essence."

- Library of Congress
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/boundforglory/glory-overview.html

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "l33ry"
<l33ry@...> wrote:

>
> I believe you're right, but this week the show opened in London.
> 
> - Bob L
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@> wrote:
> >
> > Wasn't this released in the spring of this year. I remember looking  
> > at this stuff this summer.
> >
>

I saw some of it on the wall at the Photographers gallery yesterday, but 
they were still putting it up.  I think the private view is tomorrow and 
it opens Friday 8th. I have an invite, but can't make it as I hope to be 
at another opening at Photofusion..

Anna Fox was interviewed talking about it on BBC Radio 4 this evening. 
Although as this show demonstrates, they could shoot in colour, I'm not 
sure that there was any real way that the magazines then could handle 
it, or wanted to do so. I think the whole publishing system was really 
geared to black and white, with agencies like the OSI sending out black 
and white prints.

Relatively little colour was used in magazines etc in that period. Even 
in my youth 20 or so years later, magazines and newspapers were 
predominantly  black and white, and it is much more recently that they 
have turned to colour, so it is hardly surprising that the black and 
white that was taken was much more widely used. As it says on the web 
site, "the colour FSA images were to remain half forgotten in the 
Library of Congress."
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsachtml/fsowhome.html
Having seen the colour work, although I find it interesting, it seems to 
me to lack the authority and power of the black and white images by the 
same photographers that we are more familiar with. And of course there 
are around a 100 times as many black and white images.


Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...   
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



l33ry wrote:

> I believe you're right, but this week the show opened in London.
>
> - Bob L
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>   
>> Wasn't this released in the spring of this year. I remember looking  
>> at this stuff this summer.
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter Marshall
<petermarshall@...> wrote:

> Having seen the colour work, although I find it interesting, it
seems to 
> me to lack the authority and power of the black and white images by the 
> same photographers that we are more familiar with. And of course there 
> are around a 100 times as many black and white images.

I think we have to allow that those black and white images have been
with us for a lifetime as, in fact, the authoritative visual record.
On the other hand, these slides, having been "disappeared" by a
bureaucratic error, have been with us only briefly. I grant that I
haven't seen too many "powerful" images from this collection, but the
sample size is small, and there are technical issues as well in my
way. In addition, I would guess that the photographers were, perhaps
cautiously, dealing with what must have seemed a very different medium
and way of thinking than the one they had learned and mastered.

I feel that my own imagining of that era might have been somewhat
different if these images had had as much time to sink into my
consciousness as those now iconic ones, although I couldn't say
exactly how, or by how much.

I do find interesting a thesis of the show (as I understand it): that
the color media is coincidentally an appropriate way to see the
rapid transformation of both national socio-economic reality and the
agency's focus, from depressed agriculture to booming industry, from
rural to urban, peace to war, as the Farm Security Administration
became the Office of War Information.

- Bob L

I think you can see all 1600 of the images on line at the LoC, though I 
only looked at a few hundred of them. You can also download some big 
scans from the original slides (43Mb) and make your own prints, though 
I've yet to try it. (You could even print these in black and white if 
you were desperate to keep on topic!)

It is a relatively small collection, because there was little immediate 
use for these images, and the photographers were still concentrating on 
shooting in black and white during this period. And of course you are 
right, the photographers weren't used to thinking in colour, and 
certainly hadn't learnt to cope with the contrast of the film. The color 
work seems to me essentially an interesting footnote to what we already 
know, but nothing more. The same changes in emphasis have often been 
remarked on in the black and white work. Weren't they explicit in the 
directions given to the photographers at the time?

Regards

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...     
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



l33ry wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter Marshall
> <petermarshall@...> wrote:
>
>   
>> Having seen the colour work, although I find it interesting, it
>>     
> seems to 
>   
>> me to lack the authority and power of the black and white images by the 
>> same photographers that we are more familiar with. And of course there 
>> are around a 100 times as many black and white images.
>>     
>
> I think we have to allow that those black and white images have been
> with us for a lifetime as, in fact, the authoritative visual record.
> On the other hand, these slides, having been "disappeared" by a
> bureaucratic error, have been with us only briefly. I grant that I
> haven't seen too many "powerful" images from this collection, but the
> sample size is small, and there are technical issues as well in my
> way. In addition, I would guess that the photographers were, perhaps
> cautiously, dealing with what must have seemed a very different medium
> and way of thinking than the one they had learned and mastered.
>
> I feel that my own imagining of that era might have been somewhat
> different if these images had had as much time to sink into my
> consciousness as those now iconic ones, although I couldn't say
> exactly how, or by how much.
>
> I do find interesting a thesis of the show (as I understand it): that
> the color media is coincidentally an appropriate way to see the
> rapid transformation of both national socio-economic reality and the
> agency's focus, from depressed agriculture to booming industry, from
> rural to urban, peace to war, as the Farm Security Administration
> became the Office of War Information.
>
> - Bob L
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Somewhere in my disheveled archives is a copy of Modern Photography, 
dating from the early/mid-1980s, which first presented some of these 
images to the public, if I'm not mistaken.  It's hard for me to believe 
these photographs haven't been presented anywhere between then and now.


- Barrett

Yes, in both the color and digital collections, selected images are
available in up to "archival" TIFFs, some exceeding 100mb. These are
stunning jobs. Maybe enough to drive you mad if you've invested much
in film scanners and scanning technique. Some time ago, I downloaded a
few of the classic B&W images, thinking to use them for reference
and/or calibration. I figured this way there was at least a chance I'd
end up with prints I could later enjoy, as opposed to test charts.

Obviously B&W wasn't abandoned, not even close. What the curators
suggest, to me, is that the use of color coincidentally seems well
suited to conveying to us the later emphasis on patriotism,
boosterism, progress and prosperity, as black and white is a better
vehicle to convey the earlier focus on privation, hardship, etc.

As I recall from my reading, the nature of assignments seemed quite
varied. Not only did they change as the agency's mission changed, but
it appears that Roy Stryker was a good editor with some knack for
developing and managing individual talent. Assignments ranged from
literally documenting financial transactions, to editorial missions,
to reassigning a compelling subject as a long-term project, to pure
propaganda. There's that particularly colorful Stryker quote in the
Guardian piece: "Pour maple syrup over it - you know - mix well with
white clouds and put on a sky-blue platter. I know your damned
photographer's soul writhes, but to hell with it. Do you think I give
a damn about a photographer's soul with Hitler at our doorstep? You
are nothing but camera fodder to me."

I haven't a clue how much kodachrome was available, distributed or
assigned at the agency, and how much of that was successfully exposed,
successfully processed, and later properly stored and filed. AFAIK
early Kodachrome was ASA10. Films were slower then, but that seems
quite slow, especially assuming the narrower latitude of slide film.
In addition, processing was complex, proprietary and expensive. I
wouldn't be at all surprised if Kodachromes never got much past the
experimental stage at the OWI simply for practical reasons, including
the publishing limitations that you mentioned.

Nevertheless, this was a find, and I hope people give it more than a
cursory glance, especially as its so accessible. Its value may seem
somewhat prosaic and parochial to someone overseas, and I concede that
it is indeed more about questioning existing perceptions and images of
modern American history than about new revelations, but in a time and
place where facts seem so often and so easily overwhelmed by imagery
and mythology, I consider that more than a small contribution.

Bob L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Peter Marshall
<petermarshall@...> wrote:
>
> I think you can see all 1600 of the images on line at the LoC, though I 
> only looked at a few hundred of them. You can also download some big 
> scans from the original slides (43Mb) and make your own prints, though 
> I've yet to try it. (You could even print these in black and white if 
> you were desperate to keep on topic!)
> 
> It is a relatively small collection, because there was little immediate 
> use for these images, and the photographers were still concentrating on 
> shooting in black and white during this period. And of course you are 
> right, the photographers weren't used to thinking in colour, and 
> certainly hadn't learnt to cope with the contrast of the film. The
color 

> work seems to me essentially an interesting footnote to what we already 
> know, but nothing more. The same changes in emphasis have often been 
> remarked on in the black and white work. Weren't they explicit in the 
> directions given to the photographers at the time?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter Marshall
> petermarshall@...     
> _________________________________________________________________
> My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
> London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
> The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
> and elsewhere......
>

That sounds right. I think the slides were rediscovered around 1978.
And yes, it is hard to believe, but, then again, this is the Library
of Congress we're talking about.

Bob L

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Barrett Benton
<bwbenton@...> wrote:

>
> Somewhere in my disheveled archives is a copy of Modern Photography, 
> dating from the early/mid-1980s, which first presented some of these 
> images to the public, if I'm not mistaken.  It's hard for me to believe 
> these photographs haven't been presented anywhere between then and now.
> 
> 
> - Barrett
>