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2006-12-06 by scott_now_coming
"I also continue to be impressed with the Canon's monochrome printing. Dead neutral, and lovely tonalities. I see no need for a dedicated monochrome printer any longer, and the 16 bit driver offers versatile toning capabilities. " That quote is from Michael H. Reichmann on his web-site: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ Anyone seen a monochrome print from this Canon printer? Care to comment? Thanks, Scot
2006-12-06 by Tom Baker
Why would the 16 bit driver make a difference?
Tom Baker
scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
"I also continue to be impressed with the Canon's monochrome printing.
Dead neutral, and lovely tonalities. I see no need for a dedicated
monochrome printer any longer, and the 16 bit driver offers versatile
toning capabilities. "
That quote is from Michael H. Reichmann on his web-site:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/
Anyone seen a monochrome print from this Canon printer? Care to comment?
Thanks,
Scot
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2006-12-06 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 12/5/06 9:51:11 PM, scott_now_coming@... writes: > Anyone seen a monochrome print from this Canon printer? Care to comment? > Sure, I have the machine right here... I don't see any significant differences between its built-in B&W and Epson's (on which I suspect it was modeled). In either case I still want Photoshop softproof capability, tighter control of neutrality and linearity, and more abilities to tint and tone as desired. So I do use this printer for a fair amount of my B&W, but not in its built-in B&W mode. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-06 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 12/5/06 10:11:38 PM, tbaker1328@... writes: > Why would the 16 bit driver make a difference? > Its a bit easier to print from, if you use Photoshop. And its particular bugs and issues are different, but I don't see significantly different results, once I have both the driver and the export module working properly, through profiles built for each. But, Iike you, I don't see why it would make B&W easier, as it doen't really have any B&W tools. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-06 by Paul Roark
Is there any difference in the Photoshop-to-driver connection or interface that gives profiling software like PFP any more or less control than what I can theoretically get with RGB image adjustment curves used in Photoshop? Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> _____
From: . CDTobie@... . Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon iPF 5000 Printer . I don't see any significant differences between its built-in B&W and Epson's (on which I suspect it was modeled). In either case I still want Photoshop softproof capability, tighter control of neutrality and linearity, and more abilities to tint and tone as desired. So I do use this printer for a fair amount of my B&W, but not in its built-in B&W mode. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-06 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 12/6/06 3:47:57 PM, paul.roark@... writes: > Is there any difference in the Photoshop-to-driver connection or interface > that gives profiling software like PFP any more or less control than what I > can theoretically get with RGB image adjustment curves used in Photoshop? > Well, lets see. There's the media settings, and all other stuff that have to somehow be accounted for. And the fact that 3d LookUp Tables can't possibly be emulated with channel curves. But no, its all a matter of sending RGB values to the printer, though you'd be surpised how often thats not done right, or optimally. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-06 by Roy Harrington
Not really. It's the same basic thing -- as long as we're talking grayscale input and RGB output workflow that you've used for a long time. An RGB to RGB transformation can be 3 dimensional i.e. the R output can depend on all 3 input RGB channels. Some details are a little different: In PS you are limited to number of points (14 isn't it?). The point values are just 8 bit (0 to 255), but the interpolation is 16-bit as long as your data is 16 bit. CMM can have more points and they are 16bit, but the points have to be evenly spaced. PS uses nice smooth cubic splines to connect points, CMM uses just simple linear interpolation. Roy --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> > Is there any difference in the Photoshop-to-driver connection or interface > that gives profiling software like PFP any more or less control than what I > can theoretically get with RGB image adjustment curves used in Photoshop? > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> > >
2006-12-07 by Paul Roark
Roy, That sounds reasonable. So, basically, as David says, ".its all a matter of sending RGB values to the printer,." But in addition to this the software can take advantage of a 16 bit path and also more points on the curves. What I don't hear, however, is that profiling software can alter the gray ink substitution algorithms of the driver in printers like the Epons 2400. That is, for example, as I understand it, the Epson k3 printers in ABW mode use more gray ink in the mix than in RGB mode, at least for rather neutral prints. Has anyone ever quantified this difference? With, for example, a neutral file (or slightly warm one), what amounts of each ink are used in the image? Does the RGB approach use more color ink in the image than ABW? If so, how much? Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/> _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roy Harrington Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:39 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Canon iPF 5000 Printer Not really. It's the same basic thing -- as long as we're talking grayscale input and RGB output workflow that you've used for a long time. An RGB to RGB transformation can be 3 dimensional i.e. the R output can depend on all 3 input RGB channels. Some details are a little different: In PS you are limited to number of points (14 isn't it?). The point values are just 8 bit (0 to 255), but the interpolation is 16-bit as long as your data is 16 bit. CMM can have more points and they are 16bit, but the points have to be evenly spaced. PS uses nice smooth cubic splines to connect points, CMM uses just simple linear interpolation. Roy --- In DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote: > > Is there any difference in the Photoshop-to-driver connection or interface > that gives profiling software like PFP any more or less control than what I > can theoretically get with RGB image adjustment curves used in Photoshop? > > > > Paul > > www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroar <http://www.paulroark.com/> k.com/> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2006-12-07 by CDTobie@aol.com
In a message dated 12/6/06 7:19:15 PM, paul.roark@... writes: > What I don't hear, however, is that profiling software can alter the gray > ink substitution algorithms of the driver in printers like the Epons 2400. > That is, for example, as I understand it, the Epson k3 printers in ABW mode > use more gray ink in the mix than in RGB mode, at least for rather neutral > prints. > I'd heard that as well, but the effect of it I was most concerned about was metameric shift under differing light sources, and I don't find a significant variation between AWB and Color prints of similar gray values in terms of observable metamerism. In fact I find it difficult to distinguish higher metamerism between either of these, and prints from tinted gray inksets. So my conclusion is that all of these methods make it under the visible metamerism bar, and what we have left to deal with is smoothness, detail, and what we see when we get REALLY close to the prints... C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. CDTobie@... www.colorvision.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]