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Digital BW, The Print

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My website... darkness notes:

My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-01 by sagaface

I have received a couple of emails letting me know that the photos look too dark on 
calibrated monitors (thank you!), and I wanted to address this issue for a moment:

My images are very dark in general, with high contrast and very little shadow detail by 
design. Printed, they look exactly as they should (thank you Clayton and BO!), matching 
my calibrated monitor to a T. Unfortunately, there is a very fine line between as dark as 
they are and too dark that gets crossed when viewed on differently calibrated monitors, it 
would seem...I'm not sure what to do about this. I'm going to put a thin border on the 
images and see if that helps. So, please let me know if the viewing is improved at all....I 
appreciate it!

Sarah

RE: [Digital BW] My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-01 by Gary W. Weaver

I thought they were fine images. Dark is dark.

gar
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
sagaface
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:10 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] My website... darkness notes:


I have received a couple of emails letting me know that the photos look too
dark on
calibrated monitors (thank you!), and I wanted to address this issue for a
moment:

My images are very dark in general, with high contrast and very little
shadow detail by
design. Printed, they look exactly as they should (thank you Clayton and
BO!), matching
my calibrated monitor to a T. Unfortunately, there is a very fine line
between as dark as
they are and too dark that gets crossed when viewed on differently
calibrated monitors, it
would seem...I'm not sure what to do about this. I'm going to put a thin
border on the
images and see if that helps. So, please let me know if the viewing is
improved at all....I
appreciate it!

Sarah



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
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Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
\ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
\ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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Re: My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-01 by Daniel

everything so subjective. i've learned to view other artists' works through their eyes. 
sometimes i think i manage to see through another artist's eyes, and sometimes i just 
don't get it. for example, i still don't get the oil painting of a sunny-side egg painted on an 
iron skillet.

anyway, there are many variables that are beyond an artist's control when works are 
showcased online. for example, an online-viewer may not be viewing the works on a 
properly calibrated monitor, or don't know what this calibration fuss is all about, and as a 
result the artist's works may not display as intended.

although my monitor is properly (as properly as it can get) calibrated, i'd avoid 
commenting to an artist that something is too dark, not sharp, or grainy like "noise" 
unless i have the final print in front of me to compare with the online image. whatever the 
results between an online-image and the final print, there is nothing bad, wrong, or out of 
place with darkness, under exposer, lightness, over exposure, or graininess. ultimately it's 
how the artist uses these as another set of tools to create. 

i met a fellow artists few years ago in asheville, north carolina who offered me this advise 
he received from his mentor: don't become a slave to everything you see. create your own 
world. i took his advise to heart and applied it to my painting, and to my photography as 
well. it was quite liberating.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface" <sagaface@...> wrote:
>
> I have received a couple of emails letting me know that the photos look too dark on 
> calibrated monitors (thank you!), and I wanted to address this issue for a moment:
> 
> My images are very dark in general, with high contrast and very little shadow detail by 
> design. Printed, they look exactly as they should (thank you Clayton and BO!), matching 
> my calibrated monitor to a T. Unfortunately, there is a very fine line between as dark as 
> they are and too dark that gets crossed when viewed on differently calibrated monitors, 
it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> would seem...I'm not sure what to do about this. I'm going to put a thin border on the 
> images and see if that helps. So, please let me know if the viewing is improved at all....I 
> appreciate it!
> 
> Sarah
>

Re: My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-02 by Nancy Wilson

Sarah, I found your images compelling.  I thought I would browse one 
collection at a time but found myself going through each of them at 
once--and then back to Myth of Memories, my favorite.  Yes, they are 
dark and brooding, but they seem to fit with the mood.

BTW, you mentioned before that you do BO printing.  When you print out, 
what paper(s)/printer/inkset do you use?  Nancy

RE: [Digital BW] Re: My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-02 by Gary W. Weaver

I don't mind posting images I can't print on photo forums, but I know better
than to reference them on a printing forum.

I'm only 80% of the way to darkroom results and I'm encouraged so far.

I think Sarah has confidence in the prints. That's the most important thing.
Though the "wisdom" is to theme the work, I looked at them in large mode as
individual works and feel many can stand on their own merits.

gar - to some printers, croping is a rural activity
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of djon43
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 6:20 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: My website... darkness notes:


Sarah, I find your images and their implied narratives so abstract
(lacking story lines but possessing titles) that I doubt differences
in monitor setups make any difference. Even a poor monitor might tell
your tale adequately, for all I know.

Perhaps they'd be stronger, presented as a slide show, with each image
timed appropriately...that's always been a powerful way to share slides.

Seeing actual prints, all hanging on a wall in a row, brings coherence
to artworks by a person or group, as well as to photographs. That's
Gallery 101.

Self-designated artists routinely accept that "everything is
relative," but I don't think many generally recognized artists,
photographers, or thinkers would agree: Ask the ghosts of Edward
Weston and Dianne Arbus.

I do "like" your images... they're at least as "good" as mine. I don't
find them strong, seen individually this way. That's far from
"relative," it's my own absolute truth.

Their labels notwithstanding, you have NOT shown us images of carbon
prints, you have shown us images on glowing screens. Only the most
extreme among us will ever have (or obsess about) technically close
approximations of prints on monitors, and only the most naieve of us
will believe we're seeing credible renditions of anyone's prints on
our monitors.

I'd like to see your actual print-work because I've seen your monitor-
work.

Thanks for having the courage to stimulate this discussion.

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface"
<sagaface@...> wrote:
>
> I have received a couple of emails letting me know that the photos
look too dark on
> calibrated monitors (thank you!), and I wanted to address this issue
for a moment:
>
> My images are very dark in general, with high contrast and very
little shadow detail by
> design. Printed, they look exactly as they should (thank you Clayton
and BO!), matching
> my calibrated monitor to a T. Unfortunately, there is a very fine
line between as dark as
> they are and too dark that gets crossed when viewed on differently
calibrated monitors, it
> would seem...I'm not sure what to do about this. I'm going to put a
thin border on the
> images and see if that helps. So, please let me know if the viewing
is improved at all....I
> appreciate it!
>
> Sarah
>




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
\ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
\ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-02 by djon43

Sarah, I find your images and their implied narratives so abstract
(lacking story lines but possessing titles) that I doubt differences
in monitor setups make any difference. Even a poor monitor might tell
your tale adequately, for all I know.

Perhaps they'd be stronger, presented as a slide show, with each image
timed appropriately...that's always been a powerful way to share slides. 

Seeing actual prints, all hanging on a wall in a row, brings coherence
to artworks by a person or group, as well as to photographs. That's
Gallery 101. 

Self-designated artists routinely accept that "everything is
relative," but I don't think many generally recognized artists,
photographers, or thinkers would agree: Ask the ghosts of Edward
Weston and Dianne Arbus.

I do "like" your images... they're at least as "good" as mine. I don't
find them strong, seen individually this way. That's far from
"relative," it's my own absolute truth.

Their labels notwithstanding, you have NOT shown us images of carbon
prints, you have shown us images on glowing screens. Only the most
extreme among us will ever have (or obsess about) technically close
approximations of prints on monitors, and only the most naieve of us
will believe we're seeing credible renditions of anyone's prints on
our monitors. 

I'd like to see your actual print-work because I've seen your monitor-
work. 

Thanks for having the courage to stimulate this discussion.

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "sagaface"
<sagaface@...> wrote:
>
> I have received a couple of emails letting me know that the photos
look too dark on 
> calibrated monitors (thank you!), and I wanted to address this issue
for a moment:
> 
> My images are very dark in general, with high contrast and very
little shadow detail by 
> design. Printed, they look exactly as they should (thank you Clayton
and BO!), matching 
> my calibrated monitor to a T. Unfortunately, there is a very fine
line between as dark as 
> they are and too dark that gets crossed when viewed on differently
calibrated monitors, it 
> would seem...I'm not sure what to do about this. I'm going to put a
thin border on the 
> images and see if that helps. So, please let me know if the viewing
is improved at all....I
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> appreciate it!
> 
> Sarah
>

Re: My website... darkness notes:

2007-02-02 by Daniel

ditto.

theme is good but it's not the rule, it's just a common guideline. 

indeed many of sarah's individual pieces can stand on their own merits!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Weaver" <garww@...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I think Sarah has confidence in the prints. That's the most important thing.
> Though the "wisdom" is to theme the work, I looked at them in large mode as
> individual works and feel many can stand on their own merits.

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