Digital BW, The Print

OK so I've been having a lot of fun but I'm having a hard time with
soft proofing. I have a Epson R220 and have been making some prints
with the Eboni Black on EEM BO. I find printing with gamma 2.2 too
dark so I've been printing at 1.8. Secondly, I find if I print with a
viewing mode of RGB in PS CS, I get a lighter print that more closely
resembles what I see on my screen compared to printing from a
Grayscale viewing mode. I think that has to do with how the printer
handles the conversion since the Grayscale image and RGB image look
the same on my screen. Now I haven't made a Grayscale print at gamma
2.2 yet-I'm going through a lot of paper...

Source Space 
Document: 20% Dot Gain
Print Space
Profile:
Same as Source

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated:)

Scott

Hello Scott,

>OK so I've been having a lot of fun but I'm having a hard time with
>soft proofing. I have a Epson R220 and have been making some prints
>with the Eboni Black on EEM BO. I find printing with gamma 2.2 too
>dark so I've been printing at 1.8. Secondly, I find if I print with a
>viewing mode of RGB in PS CS, I get a lighter print that more closely
>resembles what I see on my screen compared to printing from a
>Grayscale viewing mode. I think that has to do with how the printer
>handles the conversion since the Grayscale image and RGB image look
>the same on my screen. Now I haven't made a Grayscale print at gamma
>2.2 yet-

Sounds like you're on the right track and close to what I found to be
optimum for BO with the 1.8 printer gamma setting and DG20 front end.
I can't comment on the RGB vs grayscale part.  I use grayscale but
for the front end instead of DG20 I use a custom DG18 curve which
gives even better WYSIWYG than DG20 (article #4 at the link below has
a section called "Custom Front End Profiles" which explains how to do
this).  I don't know how it would compare to your RGB setting.

>...I'm going through a lot of paper...

Sounds you're close to finding your optimum settings.  Once you nail
it down all this testing will cease and you can concentrate on the
real work.  Remember that your settings may differ from someone else's
because of differences in video card or monitor settings.  You have to
find what works best for you.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton, thanks for the reply and I'm going to go through your "Custom
Front End Profiles" very carefully tonight. 

Would it be worth it to pick up a copy of "George DeWolfe's Digital
Photography Fine Print Workshop" or will that only apply to color
printing. It seems to me that some concepts would apply to both B&W as
well as color printing. Color Management has never been a lot of fun
for me but it is a necessary evil I guess and applies to B&W work as
well. At least I'm working with a profiled monitor, Eye One Display.

This is a great group;)

Scott

Scott,

>Would it be worth it to pick up a copy of "George DeWolfe's Digital
>Photography Fine Print Workshop" or will that only apply to color
>printing. It seems to me that some concepts would apply to both B&W as
>well as color printing. 

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that book, but I suspect it wouldn't be
much help for the simple BO workflow we've been discussing.  But it
might be great if you want to get into a color managed workflow -
maybe someone else here is familiar with it...  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

if anyone else is interested.. Congrats T...

http://www.lenswork.com/enhanced/previewpages/overviewcurrentissue.pdf

Carolyn

---
http://www.carolynfrayn.com

FWIW: George DeWolfe's Digital
> Photography Fine Print Workshop is one of the best books
I have read/used in 30 yrs of photography. 90% of what I do
is B&W

Vinny
www.wulfsden.com





-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scottkathe1"
<scott.kathe@...> wrote:

>
> Clayton, thanks for the reply and I'm going to go through your "Custom
> Front End Profiles" very carefully tonight. 
> 
> Would it be worth it to pick up a copy of "George DeWolfe's Digital
> Photography Fine Print Workshop" or will that only apply to color
> printing. It seems to me that some concepts would apply to both B&W as
> well as color printing. Color Management has never been a lot of fun
> for me but it is a necessary evil I guess and applies to B&W work as
> well. At least I'm working with a profiled monitor, Eye One Display.
> 
> This is a great group;)
> 
> Scott
>

Thanks Vinny,

One advantage (of many) of working at a university is ordering books
through interlibrary loan;) Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a read
and see if it's something I want to buy.

I see you use the Piezography system. Since you seem to live in the NE
Have you done one of their workshops? Didn't George De
Wolfe do a workshop at Cone's here in Vermont with respect to B&W
printing? I have seen Piezography prints and they are really amazing
but it seems to be very expensive system to run. btw, Nice images on
your website.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Vincent Orlando"
<orlandovl@...> wrote:

>
> FWIW: George DeWolfe's Digital
> > Photography Fine Print Workshop is one of the best books
> I have read/used in 30 yrs of photography. 90% of what I do
> is B&W
> 
> Vinny
> www.wulfsden.com

I was looking for suggestions on how to display prints in my reception room.
I don't frame my prints, only mat and mount (foam core) them, and will be
changing them every other month or so.  Trying to find something simple that
I can use a wall space for prints about 13x19 or 16x20.
Thanks.
Steve


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

George is the person that led me into ink jet printing while on a
workshop with him ans Ron Wisner. He was just beginnig to use Cone's
ink and I jumped in with my own converting an Epson 1200. Many
printers later I am now using a 7600 Epson. I did a couple of
workshops with Geo and find him to be an excellent teacher and
photographer. His book will help with the workflow for both color and
B&W as he himself has been a B&W photographer for many many  
years. Hope this helps

Vinny
www.wulfsden.com





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "scottkathe1"
<scott.kathe@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks Vinny,
> 
> One advantage (of many) of working at a university is ordering books
> through interlibrary loan;) Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a read
> and see if it's something I want to buy.
> 
> I see you use the Piezography system. Since you seem to live in the NE
> Have you done one of their workshops? Didn't George De
> Wolfe do a workshop at Cone's here in Vermont with respect to B&W
> printing? I have seen Piezography prints and they are really amazing
> but it seems to be very expensive system to run. btw, Nice images on
> your website.
> 
> Scott
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Vincent Orlando"
> <orlandovl@> wrote:
> >
> > FWIW: George DeWolfe's Digital
> > > Photography Fine Print Workshop is one of the best books
> > I have read/used in 30 yrs of photography. 90% of what I do
> > is B&W
> > 
> > Vinny
> > www.wulfsden.com
>

Three M makes a product called poster mounts. I've used them to mount  
matted prints on painted walls in my studio and for several shows.  
They seem to leave the wall unmarked and can be removed from the  
backing board. I have bought them at Pearl (I'm in South Florida). If  
you can find them, they're worth a try.

Mike
On Mar 1, 2007, at 2:47 PM, Steve Gibson wrote:

> I was looking for suggestions on how to display prints in my  
> reception room.
> I don't frame my prints, only mat and mount (foam core) them, and  
> will be
> changing them every other month or so. Trying to find something  
> simple that
> I can use a wall space for prints about 13x19 or 16x20.
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vinny,

Are you the Vincent Orlando from Brooklyn who played
piano with Gilbert Dropkin in the late 40's?

Gil 
--- Vincent Orlando <orlandovl@...> wrote:

> FWIW: George DeWolfe's Digital
> > Photography Fine Print Workshop is one of the best
> books
> I have read/used in 30 yrs of photography. 90% of
> what I do
> is B&W
> 
> Vinny
> www.wulfsden.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "scottkathe1"
> <scott.kathe@...> wrote:
> >
> > Clayton, thanks for the reply and I'm going to go
> through your "Custom
> > Front End Profiles" very carefully tonight. 
> > 
> > Would it be worth it to pick up a copy of "George
> DeWolfe's Digital
> > Photography Fine Print Workshop" or will that only
> apply to color
> > printing. It seems to me that some concepts would
> apply to both B&W as
> > well as color printing. Color Management has never
> been a lot of fun
> > for me but it is a necessary evil I guess and
> applies to B&W work as
> > well. At least I'm working with a profiled
> monitor, Eye One Display.
> > 
> > This is a great group;)
> > 
> > Scott
> >
> 
> 
> 


Gil Draperhttp://www.pbase.com/gildra

Steve,

Do a search for Swiss Corner Clips, here's a link with a picture
http://www.jerrysartarama.com/art-supply-stores/online/2867. These
provide a way to display matted prints without a frame. I have never
used them but I think they may be just what you are looking for.

Scott

> On Mar 1, 2007, at 2:47 PM, Steve Gibson wrote:
> 
> > I was looking for suggestions on how to display prints in my  
> > reception room.
> > I don't frame my prints, only mat and mount (foam core) them, and  
> > will be
> > changing them every other month or so. Trying to find something  
> > simple that
> > I can use a wall space for prints about 13x19 or 16x20.
> > Thanks.
> > Steve
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Gibson" 
<drjsg@...> wrote:
>
> I was looking for suggestions on how to display prints in my 
reception room.
> I don't frame my prints, only mat and mount (foam core) them, and 
will be
> changing them every other month or so.  Trying to find something 
simple that
> I can use a wall space for prints about 13x19 or 16x20.
> Thanks.
> Steve
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I have used "gallery clips" in the past if I wanted to hang something 
but didn't want to frame it. It is about $5 for a set of four clips. 
They hook over the corners of picture and hold the glass (optional) 
matted print and backing together when he four corners are tied 
together with cord in the back. It is simple and inexpensive. I have 
bought the clips at a local art supply store and Light Impressions 
sells them on line, although you might find them at a lower price 
elsewhere. There are several styles, all relatively inexpensive. If 
you typically have the same size mat, you can buy one piece of glass 
to protect your image and just reuse it for the next.

Have fun!.

No

Vinny
www.wulfsden.com



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, gilbert Draper
<gildra38@...> wrote:

>
> Vinny,
> 
> Are you the Vincent Orlando from Brooklyn who played
> piano with Gilbert Dropkin in the late 40's?
> 
> Gil 
> --- Vincent Orlando <orlandovl@...> wrote:
> 
> > FWIW: George DeWolfe's Digital
> > > Photography Fine Print Workshop is one of the best
> > books
> > I have read/used in 30 yrs of photography. 90% of
> > what I do
> > is B&W
> > 
> > Vinny
> > www.wulfsden.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> > "scottkathe1"
> > <scott.kathe@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Clayton, thanks for the reply and I'm going to go
> > through your "Custom
> > > Front End Profiles" very carefully tonight. 
> > > 
> > > Would it be worth it to pick up a copy of "George
> > DeWolfe's Digital
> > > Photography Fine Print Workshop" or will that only
> > apply to color
> > > printing. It seems to me that some concepts would
> > apply to both B&W as
> > > well as color printing. Color Management has never
> > been a lot of fun
> > > for me but it is a necessary evil I guess and
> > applies to B&W work as
> > > well. At least I'm working with a profiled
> > monitor, Eye One Display.
> > > 
> > > This is a great group;)
> > > 
> > > Scott
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Gil Draperhttp://www.pbase.com/gildra
>