Digital BW, The Print

I'm having a hell of a time getting decent prints with a new C88 and the MIS EZ inks.

I've been all thru Paul's settings documents several times and tried all kinds of variations, but 
I'm just not getting very good prints.  Not good at all.

So my question is:  with the 4 ink set from MIS, do I print in "color" or do I do "Black"?  Black 
seems to be much better, but then why would they sell me four inks if the quality is so poor 
printing with them?

I've tried reams of different paper:  EEM, Kirkland (from MIS), Canon Glossy, Epson Glossy, HP 
Glossy, Konica glossy (had a bunch of this on hand), Crane Museo SR and Innova F-type 
Glossy.  The latter two papers look much better, but they should - they are beautiful papers 
and they cost it.  I got this system to proof print stuff using cheap paper and save my 2400 
for final printing.

Comments anyone?

Hard to help.  Specifically what do you mean by not good prints?  
This may be something as simple as a monitor/printer mismatch (ie, 
no WYSIWYG).  Is your monitor calibrated?  Even if it is, you may 
still need to apply a curve to your monitor image (or a proofing 
profile) during editing to get a good match (or to your image before 
printing).

Yes, print in color.  The Black setting only prints with one black 
ink.

I recommend starting out with EEM (inexpensive) until you sort out 
your workflow then go for the other papers.  Minimize the variables.

Others will have to help you with the specifics of the C88 and MIS 
EZ inkset.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "heningerw" 
<lists@...> wrote:
>
> I'm having a hell of a time getting decent prints with a new C88 
and the MIS EZ inks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Randall" <jrandall@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hard to help.  Specifically what do you mean by not good prints?  

Flat.  Purplish. Poor gradations in the tonalities.  In short, they look like complete crap.

This system is to be my proofer - not the final image printer - but these don't even pass 
as proof prints.

> This may be something as simple as a monitor/printer mismatch (ie, 
> no WYSIWYG).  Is your monitor calibrated?  Even if it is, you may 
> still need to apply a curve to your monitor image (or a proofing 
> profile) during editing to get a good match (or to your image before 
> printing).

Yes, my monitor is calibrated.  Yes, I tried softproofing the images in PS as well.  I tried 
print with the profiles Paul provides as well with no real benefit.

> Yes, print in color.  The Black setting only prints with one black 
> ink.

Printing in color looks like complete crap.  Black looks much better.

> I recommend starting out with EEM (inexpensive) until you sort out 
> your workflow then go for the other papers.  Minimize the variables.

I'm a darkroom veteran, so I know all about that.  I focused on EEM and Kirkland.  I only 
did the test with the other glossies to see what I got.

i have been "playing" around with the c88+ and the MIS inks.
   
  the first batch of inks worked out very well, infact , i was quite surprised.  Using Paul's suggestion as well along with the Kirkland paper.
   
  The second batch of inks has been another problem, even using the same image and same numbers they are not very good.  
  All sorts of issues, and since i am not sure what i am doing it can be madding.
   
  As you, i have many years of darkroom experience and have to remind myself at one time it was just as overwhelming.
   
  Just to let you know your not alone lol
   
  regards,
  ann
   
  

heningerw <lists@...> wrote:
          I'm having a hell of a time getting decent prints with a new C88 and the MIS EZ inks.

I've been all thru Paul's settings documents several times and tried all kinds of variations, but 
I'm just not getting very good prints. Not good at all.

So my question is: with the 4 ink set from MIS, do I print in "color" or do I do "Black"? Black 
seems to be much better, but then why would they sell me four inks if the quality is so poor 
printing with them?

I've tried reams of different paper: EEM, Kirkland (from MIS), Canon Glossy, Epson Glossy, HP 
Glossy, Konica glossy (had a bunch of this on hand), Crane Museo SR and Innova F-type 
Glossy. The latter two papers look much better, but they should - they are beautiful papers 
and they cost it. I got this system to proof print stuff using cheap paper and save my 2400 
for final printing.

Comments anyone?



         

 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ann clancy <jaclancy1937@...> 
wrote:
>
> i have been "playing" around with the c88+ and the MIS inks.
>    
>   the first batch of inks worked out very well, infact , i was quite surprised.  Using Paul's 
suggestion as well along with the Kirkland paper.
>    
>   The second batch of inks has been another problem, even using the same image and 
same numbers they are not very good.  
>   All sorts of issues, and since i am not sure what i am doing it can be madding.
>    
>   As you, i have many years of darkroom experience and have to remind myself at one 
time it was just as overwhelming.
>    
>   Just to let you know your not alone lol

Thanks Ann.

I wonder if this really is a "batch" problem with the inks?  Has anyone else had consistency 
problems with the MIS inks?  This would be a very disturbing variable that would throw 
quite a kink in the line...

The C88+ works great for me.
Which set of inks did you get?
Are they in the correct slots?
Are you using the icc method? If so which profile are you using?
What OS? What software do you use to print?

Mike J.

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of heningerw
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:22 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: C88 Issues and Questions

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Randall"
<jrandall@...>
wrote:
>
> Hard to help.  Specifically what do you mean by not good prints?

Flat.  Purplish. Poor gradations in the tonalities.  In short, they look
like complete crap.

This system is to be my proofer - not the final image printer - but these
don't even pass
as proof prints.

> This may be something as simple as a monitor/printer mismatch (ie,
> no WYSIWYG).  Is your monitor calibrated?  Even if it is, you may
> still need to apply a curve to your monitor image (or a proofing
> profile) during editing to get a good match (or to your image before
> printing).

Yes, my monitor is calibrated.  Yes, I tried softproofing the images in PS
as well.  I tried
print with the profiles Paul provides as well with no real benefit.

> Yes, print in color.  The Black setting only prints with one black
> ink.

Printing in color looks like complete crap.  Black looks much better.

> I recommend starting out with EEM (inexpensive) until you sort out
> your workflow then go for the other papers.  Minimize the variables.

I'm a darkroom veteran, so I know all about that.  I focused on EEM and
Kirkland.  I only
did the test with the other glossies to see what I got.

I've had strange "tonality" issues with the C86/MIS-EZ combination when 
one cartridge wasn't "firing" properly. Could be a defective cartridge 
or an air bubble trapped somewhere?

heningerw wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, ann clancy 
> <jaclancy1937@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > i have been "playing" around with the c88+ and the MIS inks.
> >
> > the first batch of inks worked out very well, infact , i was quite 
> surprised. Using Paul's
> suggestion as well along with the Kirkland paper.
> >
> > The second batch of inks has been another problem, even using the 
> same image and
> same numbers they are not very good.
> > All sorts of issues, and since i am not sure what i am doing it can 
> be madding.
> >
> > As you, i have many years of darkroom experience and have to remind 
> myself at one
> time it was just as overwhelming.
> >
> > Just to let you know your not alone lol
>
> Thanks Ann.
>
> I wonder if this really is a "batch" problem with the inks? Has anyone 
> else had consistency
> problems with the MIS inks? This would be a very disturbing variable 
> that would throw
> quite a kink in the line...
>
>  

-- 


Jordan Wosnick
jwosnick@...

Here's another satisfied C88/MIS EZ user.  I've been using the EZ inks 
for several years now, without complaint.  Mostly with a MIS CIS in a 
C84 and now a C88, but I also have a second C88 with the EZ inks in 
refillable cartridges.  (I printed a bit over 1,000 images in the month 
before Christmas last year, and things seemed to go a bit faster if I 
alternated sending batches to the "primary" printer with the CIS and the 
"backup" with the cartridges.)

Cheers,
Kip

Mike Johnston wrote:
>
> The C88+ works great for me.
> Which set of inks did you get?
> Are they in the correct slots?
> Are you using the icc method? If so which profile are you using?
> What OS? What software do you use to print?
>
> Mike J.
>
>  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "heningerw" 
<lists@...> wrote:
>
> I'm having a hell of a time getting decent prints with a new C88 
and the MIS EZ inks.
> 
I am NOT familiar with the C8x setup--but I have an R340 and the MIS 
UT-R2(N) setup.  If the drivers are somewhat similar, then--

1.  Check your printer PROPERTIES (select printer in 'printers and 
faxes,' right-click, scroll down to Properties) have the correct 
color management setup (select Color Management tab in Properties.)

If there are ANY profiles assigned to the printer and the CM is set 
to automatic, then 

a.  DELETE ALL PROFILES, and
b.  set CM to Manual.

2.  In the Printer Driver, look to see that "ICM" is enabled, and 
that the "ICM OFF" box is checked.  Look on the "Advanced" tab, I 
suspect.

This for sure puts your Editor in control of the file sent to be 
printed.  Your image in Edit will, if your monitor is calibrated, 
look pretty much like what you want it to--

3.  If you're now getting nominally the print you want, you can now 
go in and use the Printer Color Controls (select Color Control, not 
ICM / ICM OFF) and you can tweak the prints as desired.

4.  FWIW, I convert my prints to B&W in my Editor (PSE 5.02), and I 
assume you are doing that.  

You're probably much more advanced than I am right now, but this is 
what I've sorted out for B&W printing so far.  But, I've found that 
(apparently) XP keeps reassigning my monitor profile to printers in 
the Printer Properties; that's a hidden feature I could do without.

Jim H.

I have been using a C88 with the MIS Neutral Inks with Eboni black for a couple months 
now, and have been making great prints with it.  Granted, this is my first batch of inks so I 
cannot comment on batch consistency.  I am also a darkroom veteran and find this to be a 
great printer for small proofs.  I have been printing mostly on HPR.  I use Gray Gamma 1.8 
as my working space and the QTR-HPR ICC profile that I got with the Quad Tone Rip.  I 
usually have to apply a curve layer to lighten the image for printing (it prints kind of dark 
otherwise).  In the print driver settings I use the advanced tab, setting it to the highest 
resolution, heavyweight matte and turn ICM color off.    If you haven't downloaded Quad 
Tone Rip for the profiles, you definitely should.  Hope this helps.

-Chris 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Fred59" <jfhanson45@...> 
wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "heningerw" 
> <lists@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm having a hell of a time getting decent prints with a new C88 
> and the MIS EZ inks.
> > 
> I am NOT familiar with the C8x setup--but I have an R340 and the MIS 
> UT-R2(N) setup.  If the drivers are somewhat similar, then--
> 
> 1.  Check your printer PROPERTIES (select printer in 'printers and 
> faxes,' right-click, scroll down to Properties) have the correct 
> color management setup (select Color Management tab in Properties.)
> 
> If there are ANY profiles assigned to the printer and the CM is set 
> to automatic, then 
> 
> a.  DELETE ALL PROFILES, and
> b.  set CM to Manual.
> 
> 2.  In the Printer Driver, look to see that "ICM" is enabled, and 
> that the "ICM OFF" box is checked.  Look on the "Advanced" tab, I 
> suspect.
> 
> This for sure puts your Editor in control of the file sent to be 
> printed.  Your image in Edit will, if your monitor is calibrated, 
> look pretty much like what you want it to--
> 
> 3.  If you're now getting nominally the print you want, you can now 
> go in and use the Printer Color Controls (select Color Control, not 
> ICM / ICM OFF) and you can tweak the prints as desired.
> 
> 4.  FWIW, I convert my prints to B&W in my Editor (PSE 5.02), and I 
> assume you are doing that.  
> 
> You're probably much more advanced than I am right now, but this is 
> what I've sorted out for B&W printing so far.  But, I've found that 
> (apparently) XP keeps reassigning my monitor profile to printers in 
> the Printer Properties; that's a hidden feature I could do without.
> 
> Jim H.
>