Digital BW, The Print

Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: michaeladawson_ajax 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:40 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] New 6 color MIS/FS inks


  I hope I'm not asking a question already posted.  I'm tempted to try
  the MIS/FS inks for my 1200 printer but have a couple questions.

  What is the definitive answer regarding how many distinct inks are
  used in 6-color Piezography?  I seem to recall past posts saying that
  Cone only used the same four inks as used in the quadtone set. 
  Supposedly the photo-cyan and photo-magenta positions use the same
  cyan and magenta inks and the piezo driver adjusts accordingly. True
  or not?

  If so, then is their really a need for a hextone FS inkset?  You could
  use the quadtone set as long as you know what chambers to put the inks in.

  If there are 6 distinct inks in the MIS/FS set how would this
  reconcile with the 4 inks used in Piezo (if this were true)? 
  Specifically, what would happen if one wanted to use the piezo driver.

  Anything that would clear this up is appreciated.

  Mike


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 


------------------------------------------------------------------------
       
       

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike-

I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean there 
is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color? I've heard 
that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more smooth 
than the 1160? (I know you just use the "big stuff" but I'm asking 
for "logic" <g>).

Tom O'Connell


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael Kravit" 
<michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo 
magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.
> 
> Mike
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: michaeladawson_ajax 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y... 
>   Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:40 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] New 6 color MIS/FS inks
> 
> 
>   I hope I'm not asking a question already posted.  I'm tempted to 
try
>   the MIS/FS inks for my 1200 printer but have a couple questions.
> 
>   What is the definitive answer regarding how many distinct inks are
>   used in 6-color Piezography?  I seem to recall past posts saying 
that
>   Cone only used the same four inks as used in the quadtone set. 
>   Supposedly the photo-cyan and photo-magenta positions use the same
>   cyan and magenta inks and the piezo driver adjusts accordingly. 
True
>   or not?
> 
>   If so, then is their really a need for a hextone FS inkset?  You 
could
>   use the quadtone set as long as you know what chambers to put the 
inks in.
> 
>   If there are 6 distinct inks in the MIS/FS set how would this
>   reconcile with the 4 inks used in Piezo (if this were true)? 
>   Specifically, what would happen if one wanted to use the piezo 
driver.
> 
>   Anything that would clear this up is appreciated.
> 
>   Mike
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>        
>        
> 
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> 
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 

> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

I would like Paul Roark to respond to your question. I only have 6 color printers I sold my 3000 about 18 months ago.   I believe that with Quad blacks there is not a significant difference, but Paul could add more definitive info.

Mike

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tomoc 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 8:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New 6 color MIS/FS inks


  Mike-

  I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean there 
  is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color? I've heard 
  that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more smooth 
  than the 1160? (I know you just use the "big stuff" but I'm asking 
  for "logic" <g>).

  Tom O'Connell




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

<michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
>> Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo
>>magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.

You wrote:

>I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean there
>is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color?

For Piezo, there is no reason to go to the 6 ink printer in terms of
smoothness, as far as I can see.

>I've heard
>that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more smooth
>than the 1160?

This is true with the MIS VM inkset.  It's mostly the blue toner dots that
some see in the 1160 highlights.  At normal viewing distance I don't notice
it, but some appear to.  With the 6-ink printers the magenta position is
used for the toner, so there is a very light, low-gamut blue toner in the
highlights that I don't think anyone can see.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul- (thanks, Mike)

I know you have commented on the 1280 before as being a little 
smoother and less sharp than an 1160 with VM, but I was questioning 
whether there really were 6 different inks (I know there are 6 
bottles, but I wondered if they had 2 that were duplicates how that 
really made things smoother)...obviously it makes sense for VM from 
what you say since there is that toner ((does that mean there are 4 
colors, one dupe of one of the colors and the toner?))).

Do you know if the straight MIS quads and/or piezo really only use 
four colors in the six bottles? I'm wondering if that could really 
make any difference in the printing???

Thanks,

Tom O'Connell
( from 24 degree Sausalito <g>)


-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> <michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> >> Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo
> >>magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean 
there
> >is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color?
> 
> For Piezo, there is no reason to go to the 6 ink printer in terms of
> smoothness, as far as I can see.
> 
> >I've heard
> >that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more 
smooth
> >than the 1160?
> 
> This is true with the MIS VM inkset.  It's mostly the blue toner 
dots that
> some see in the 1160 highlights.  At normal viewing distance I 
don't notice
> it, but some appear to.  With the 6-ink printers the magenta 
position is
> used for the toner, so there is a very light, low-gamut blue toner 
in the

> highlights that I don't think anyone can see.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

Tom
Paul probably has us both beat --temp wise
Don
26 degree Menlo Park (burrrrrr)

I'm also interested in the 6 "colors" as I just got a 1270 (used) and want to set it up as a B&W MIS VM inkset machine
Don

  Tom O'Connell
  ( from 24 degree Sausalito <g>)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

You wrote:

>... I was questioning
>whether there really were 6 different inks ...

Not in "hextone" Piezo or FS inksets designed for the Piezo driver.

>for VM from
>what you say since there is that toner ((does that mean there are 4
>colors, one dupe of one of the colors and the toner?))).

For hextone VM there is black and 3 different grays, and two different
densities of the toner -- so it is a true hextone (true B&W quad also).

The traditional MIS hextone set used 6 tones also.

>... Piezo really only use
>four colors in the six bottles? I'm wondering if that could really
>make any difference in the printing???

I've never done my own analysis of the Piezo 6-ink smoothness.  I think I've
heard that the 1160 is just as good, however.  The point is, I guess, that
you just don't need 6 inks for a visually smooth B&W print.  In fact, 3 inks
do an amazingly good job.  It was Jon Cone's statements to this effect that
led me to, first, test it (3 was fine) and, second, to realize that we had
an extra position for a toner ink that could control the print tone.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Hi everyone.

I am brand new to this list although Not new to photography.

I am currently making plans to invest in a new wide format printer.

I know that a lot of people purchase the Epson However, I was leaning toward
the Roland.
has anyone had experience with that printer. Or is there another that is
really good.

Greg
-- 
Gregory James Phelps Photography

2334 Boca Chica #600
Brownsville, TX 78521

Ph:     (956) 546-3700
Fx:     (956 541-5264

Web:    http://www.gjphelps.com

Email:  greg@...

Tom, over all, 1280 prints look better.

Coud you post your address again? I can't find it, and I'm ready to send
my 15 prints.

Jerry



tomoc wrote:

> 
> Mike-
> 
> I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean there
> is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color? I've heard
> that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more smooth
> than the 1160? (I know you just use the "big stuff" but I'm asking
> for "logic" <g>).
> 
> Tom O'Connell
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Michael Kravit"
> <michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> > Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo
> magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.
> >
> > Mike
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: michaeladawson_ajax
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> >   Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:40 PM
> >   Subject: [Digital BW] New 6 color MIS/FS inks
> >
> >
> >   I hope I'm not asking a question already posted.  I'm tempted to
> try
> >   the MIS/FS inks for my 1200 printer but have a couple questions.
> >
> >   What is the definitive answer regarding how many distinct inks are
> >   used in 6-color Piezography?  I seem to recall past posts saying
> that
> >   Cone only used the same four inks as used in the quadtone set.
> >   Supposedly the photo-cyan and photo-magenta positions use the same
> >   cyan and magenta inks and the piezo driver adjusts accordingly.
> True
> >   or not?
> >
> >   If so, then is their really a need for a hextone FS inkset?  You
> could
> >   use the quadtone set as long as you know what chambers to put the
> inks in.
> >
> >   If there are 6 distinct inks in the MIS/FS set how would this
> >   reconcile with the 4 inks used in Piezo (if this were true)?
> >   Specifically, what would happen if one wanted to use the piezo
> driver.
> >
> >   Anything that would clear this up is appreciated.
> >
> >   Mike
> >
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >
> >
> >
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page
> is at:
> >
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   - Include your full name with your message.
> >   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> messages to keep them short.
> >   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> >   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks
> or "flames."
> >   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Well the bottles in a six color printer all get lower in ink at about
the same rate.

Jerry

tomoc wrote:

> 
> Paul- (thanks, Mike)
> 
> I know you have commented on the 1280 before as being a little
> smoother and less sharp than an 1160 with VM, but I was questioning
> whether there really were 6 different inks (I know there are 6
> bottles, but I wondered if they had 2 that were duplicates how that
> really made things smoother)...obviously it makes sense for VM from
> what you say since there is that toner ((does that mean there are 4
> colors, one dupe of one of the colors and the toner?))).
> 
> Do you know if the straight MIS quads and/or piezo really only use
> four colors in the six bottles? I'm wondering if that could really
> make any difference in the printing???
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom O'Connell
> ( from 24 degree Sausalito <g>)
> 
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > <michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> > >> Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and Photo
> > >>magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > >I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean
> there
> > >is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color?
> >
> > For Piezo, there is no reason to go to the 6 ink printer in terms of
> > smoothness, as far as I can see.
> >
> > >I've heard
> > >that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more
> smooth
> > >than the 1160?
> >
> > This is true with the MIS VM inkset.  It's mostly the blue toner
> dots that
> > some see in the 1160 highlights.  At normal viewing distance I
> don't notice
> > it, but some appear to.  With the 6-ink printers the magenta
> position is
> > used for the toner, so there is a very light, low-gamut blue toner
> in the
> > highlights that I don't think anyone can see.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry-

Makes you think that even if there is a "duplicate" color in there, 
it is somehow working for you...

Since the 6 color doesn't print the page any faster, it must be 
putting more ink on the paper. That could be why the 6 color prints 
are smoother (and maybe why they don't appear as sharp)?

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Well the bottles in a six color printer all get lower in ink at 
about
> the same rate.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> tomoc wrote:
> > 
> > Paul- (thanks, Mike)
> > 
> > I know you have commented on the 1280 before as being a little
> > smoother and less sharp than an 1160 with VM, but I was 
questioning
> > whether there really were 6 different inks (I know there are 6
> > bottles, but I wondered if they had 2 that were duplicates how 
that
> > really made things smoother)...obviously it makes sense for VM 
from
> > what you say since there is that toner ((does that mean there are 
4
> > colors, one dupe of one of the colors and the toner?))).
> > 
> > Do you know if the straight MIS quads and/or piezo really only use
> > four colors in the six bottles? I'm wondering if that could really
> > make any difference in the printing???
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Tom O'Connell
> > ( from 24 degree Sausalito <g>)
> > 
> > -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Tom,
> > >
> > > <michael.kravit@w...> wrote:
> > > >> Six color Piezo uses 4 tones including black. Magenta and 
Photo
> > > >>magenta are the same. Cyan and Photo Cyan are the same.
> > >
> > > You wrote:
> > >
> > > >I've read this a few times and it just hit me... Does this mean
> > there
> > > >is no logical reason to switch from 4 color to 6 color?
> > >
> > > For Piezo, there is no reason to go to the 6 ink printer in 
terms of
> > > smoothness, as far as I can see.
> > >
> > > >I've heard
> > > >that some of the 1280 prints, especially were measurably more
> > smooth
> > > >than the 1160?
> > >
> > > This is true with the MIS VM inkset.  It's mostly the blue toner
> > dots that
> > > some see in the 1160 highlights.  At normal viewing distance I
> > don't notice
> > > it, but some appear to.  With the 6-ink printers the magenta
> > position is
> > > used for the toner, so there is a very light, low-gamut blue 
toner
> > in the
> > > highlights that I don't think anyone can see.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

If you are going to be doing a lot of printing look for a machine that 
is built to do so. For instance, an Epson 4000 will be more economical 
in the long run when compared to say, an Epson 2200. The larger ink 
capacity (220ml) cartridges are more cost effective in the end, and no 
need to fuss with continuous inking systems (CIS's). There is also 
plenty of third party support for RIP's and other such goodies, should 
you decide to head down that path in the future.

Additionally, you have the ability to print on both glossy and matte 
papers, courtesy of the printers 8 ink channels.

Good luck,

Eric Bullock
PixelPusherz Imaging
http://www.pixelpusherz.net