Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 5/31/07 1:34:03 PM, roy@... writes:


> Some observations:
> ABW uses a lot more LLK --- 16 times!
> ABW uses a lot less Y   --- 1/4 the amount
> ABW uses no dark C and M
> 
> Interestingly this really supports the idea of replacing the Y
> ink with a LLK ink with either driver.
> 
Yes, and it would support the idea of custom profiling the color output in 
color mode after you replace the yellow cart. That would let the profiling 
software adjust the neutrality blend of the light components, eliminating not just 
the yellow, but a good bit of the other colors as well.

On the other hand, with a custom profile (I can't speak to the Stock Velvet 
profile) I find even the straight color ink mode's B&W to be low enough in 
yellow to be visually free of illuminant metamerism, so we may be splitting hairs. 


I don't find the Canon color mode to function quite like the Epson AWB mode; 
seems to be less color ink, and more light light gray in it in all modes, 
though I don't have a handy tool to quantify that, like the ink drop info from the 
Epsons...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com


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 See what's free at 
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Perhaps, It is more an indication that Epson has really been paying
attention to the needs of the B&W digital printer and tried to eliminate the
undesirable outcomes. It would be interesting to see the ink usage of a
neutral ICC profile, made by PFP, an EYE One set up, etc., to see how they
stack up. However, unless you are only printing B&W I see no reason to fret
about .87% yellow ink. Those needing a system that does both would be better
off leaving things be and those printing only B&W might be better off with
just a dedicated ink set with toners included within the more neutral ink. 

 

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 12:52 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ink Comparison of Epson ABW and regular drivers

 


In a message dated 5/31/07 1:34:03 PM, roy@harrington.
<mailto:roy%40harrington.com> com writes:

> Some observations:
> ABW uses a lot more LLK --- 16 times!
> ABW uses a lot less Y   --- 1/4 the amount
> ABW uses no dark C and M
> 
> Interestingly this really supports the idea of replacing the Y
> ink with a LLK ink with either driver.
> 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/31/07 2:30:06 PM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> Perhaps, It is more an indication that Epson has really been paying
> attention to the needs of the B&W digital printer and tried to eliminate the
> undesirable outcomes. It would be interesting to see the ink usage of a
> neutral ICC profile, made by PFP, an EYE One set up, etc., to see how they
> stack up. 
> 
How they stack up in other respects might indeed be interesting, but there 
would not be any meaning to looking at the ink usages between them; all an RGB 
profile can do is ask for R,G, and B. It can't tell the driver how to define 
channel splits, or ask it to eliminate components.


> However, unless you are only printing B&W I see no reason to fret
> about .87% yellow ink. Those needing a system that does both would be better
> off leaving things be and those printing only B&W might be better off with
> just a dedicated ink set with toners included within the more neutral ink.
> 
Toners included in the neutral inks are still toners. It doesn't much matter 
if that yellow ink is mixed into a gray ink or not, it will still cause the 
same degree of illuminant metamerism, or the same degree of fading, as the case 
may be, ; plus it will add the highly undesirable situation of mixed inks with 
differential settling and differential moving in the lines. Inks built out of 
pure, single tone pigments are a much better deal for B&W inksets than ones 
with colored toners added. 

If you are going to add color, adding it directly from a color cart offers 
the advantages of knowing just how much you're going to get, and allowing you to 
choose how much you want. I'd certainly love to see the next generation of 
Epson drivers reduce the percentage on color inks for neutrals even further, to 
minimize the issue at even a theoretical level.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


**************************************
 See what's free at 
http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David, That is how they stack up to the ABW in terms of ink usage, not to
one another; i.e. a neutral ABW setting and a neutral profile not just
printing a grayscale image with a profile intended for color printing.

 

Toners within an ink set like the Piezotones selenium, and sepia tones that
may or may not be single pigment solutions. I don't know. I didn't mean
toners as in using a color pigment like LM, LC, etc.

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:49 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Ink Comparison of Epson ABW and regular drivers

 


In a message dated 5/31/07 2:30:06 PM, e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net writes:

> Perhaps, It is more an indication that Epson has really been paying
> attention to the needs of the B&W digital printer and tried to eliminate
the
> undesirable outcomes. It would be interesting to see the ink usage of a
> neutral ICC profile, made by PFP, an EYE One set up, etc., to see how they
> stack up. 
> 
How they stack up in other respects might indeed be interesting, but there 
would not be any meaning to looking at the ink usages between them; all an
RGB 
profile can do is ask for R,G, and B. It can't tell the driver how to define

channel splits, or ask it to eliminate components.

> However, unless you are only printing B&W I see no reason to fret
> about .87% yellow ink. Those needing a system that does both would be
better
> off leaving things be and those printing only B&W might be better off with
> just a dedicated ink set with toners included within the more neutral ink.
> 
Toners included in the neutral inks are still toners. It doesn't much matter

if that yellow ink is mixed into a gray ink or not, it will still cause the 
same degree of illuminant metamerism, or the same degree of fading, as the
case 
may be, ; plus it will add the highly undesirable situation of mixed inks
with 
differential settling and differential moving in the lines. Inks built out
of 
pure, single tone pigments are a much better deal for B&W inksets than ones 
with colored toners added. 

If you are going to add color, adding it directly from a color cart offers 
the advantages of knowing just how much you're going to get, and allowing
you to 
choose how much you want. I'd certainly love to see the next generation of 
Epson drivers reduce the percentage on color inks for neutrals even further,
to 
minimize the issue at even a theoretical level.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

**************************************
See what's free at 
http://www.aol. <http://www.aol.com.> com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



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