Digital BW, The Print

>you can to it much more affordably with PrintFIX PRO to read the 
>patches and produce the measurement sets for QTR

Is this process documented somewhere?

Dave.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ausdlk"
<ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> >you can to it much more affordably with PrintFIX PRO to read the 
> >patches and produce the measurement sets for QTR
> 
> Is this process documented somewhere?
> 
> Dave.
>

just print the target, use the measure tool of PFP, check the box "QTR
Format Ovewrite" and read the patches. Once you finished reading the
patches just drag and drop the txt file over the file named
"QTR-Create-ICC.exe" under 

program files/quadtoneRIP/eye-one/QTR-Create-ICC.exe

after a second the icc profile will appear in the same directory the
txt was saved. You'll have to take this file and move it under the icc
folder. Then lunch PS, print with preview, select Let PS determine
colors, select the qtr profile, select perceptual and black point
compensation. DOn't forget to transfor the rgb file into a greyscale
one before sending data to the printer where you should set the same
setting you used to print the target (so, for example, if you printed
the target using the ABW mode you should set ABW mode in the printer).

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ausdlk" 
<ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> >you can to it much more affordably with PrintFIX PRO to read the 
> >patches and produce the measurement sets for QTR
> 
> Is this process documented somewhere?
> 
> Dave.
>

You could check out Keith Cooper's website(Northlight-Images.co.uk) in 
which he has an artical about using PFP and QTR.

http://northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/printfix_pro_for_bw.html

I have only glanced at the artical, but would like to have another 
look at it.

Hope this helps!

>just print the target, use the measure tool of PFP, check the box "QTR
>Format Ovewrite" and read the patches.

Thanks. The process seems simple enough.

But since ABW is not a ICC based process, I would assume that the QTR ICC
has no bearing on the actual printing of the print.

If that is the case, then the QTR ICC process really just results in a
method to soft proof within PS.

Is the summary correct? If it is, why specify the ICC profile at all when
printing?

I must be missing something. Basically, other than the soft proof, what's
the point of a QTR ICC (or any ICC) when printing in ABW mode?

Dave.

-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" <ausdlk@...> 
wrote:
>
> >just print the target, use the measure tool of PFP, check the box "QTR
> >Format Ovewrite" and read the patches.
> 
> Thanks. The process seems simple enough.
> 
> But since ABW is not a ICC based process, I would assume that the QTR ICC
> has no bearing on the actual printing of the print.
> 
> If that is the case, then the QTR ICC process really just results in a
> method to soft proof within PS.
> 
> Is the summary correct? If it is, why specify the ICC profile at all when
> printing?
> 
> I must be missing something. Basically, other than the soft proof, what's
> the point of a QTR ICC (or any ICC) when printing in ABW mode?
> 
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
> Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
> 2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw
> 

Dave,

ABW is only non-ICC based in that Epson does not provide any ICC profiles.
ABW is just a print driver -- you can profile it and be ICC based or just print to it
non-ICC based and get what you get. 

Printing to ABW goes through all the same code so it's perfectly reasonable to
profile it and print with the profiles.   QTR-Create-ICC does exactly that -- it
profiles the ABW driver and allows the color management system convert from 
whatever embedded profile is in the source to the output profile.

Since the output to the screen is ALWAYS profiled -- you can't disable it -- the
logical thing is to print profiled as well.   It's the only way to get screen-to-print
consistently matching.

The softproofing capability basically provides a way to see the reduced dMax by
using Simulate Ink Black and a way to see the tone/hue of the print (like warm or sepia).

Roy

I created an QTR ICC profile by printing the 21-step profile on Innova
FibaGloss F paper using the ABW mode of the Epson 3800 printer. I read the
profile print using PFP 2.0.

The following output was produced by QTR-Create-ICC. I don't know enough
about Lab values to know if these values make any sense.

Comments? Can this be (easily) explained?


Step    Dens    Lab    A    B
0.00     0.059    94.84    0.93    -0.73    -                          b  |
a                      L   +
5.00     0.073    93.67    0.87    -0.54    -                          b  |
a                      L   +
10.00    0.112    90.45    0.72    -0.65    -                          b  |
a                     L     +
15.00    0.151    87.34    0.58    -0.50    -                           b |
a                   L       +
20.00    0.204    83.21    0.37    -0.67    -                          b
|a                 L          +
25.00    0.257    79.26    0.21    -0.60    -                          b
a                L            +
30.00    0.314    75.16    0.32    -0.51    -                          b
|a             L              +
35.00    0.372    71.17    0.18    -0.64    -                          b
a           L                 +
40.00    0.438    66.86    -0.02   -0.83    -                         b
a|         L                   +
45.00    0.513    62.23    -0.15   -0.39    -
ba|      L                      +
50.00    0.596    57.44    -0.29   -0.56    -                          ba
|   L                         +
55.00    0.676    53.02    -0.28   -0.73    -                          ba
|L                            +
60.00    0.785    47.50    -0.47   -0.53    -                          ba
|                             +
65.00    0.943    40.27    -0.34   -0.23    -                       L
ab|                             +
70.00    1.173    31.15    -0.50   -0.10    -                 L
ab|                             +
75.00    1.544    19.47    -0.48   -0.52    -          L               ba
|                             +
80.00    1.897    11.04    -0.59   -0.34    -     L                    ab
|                             +
85.00    2.285    4.69     -0.18    0.40    - L
a|b                            +



-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David Keenan wrote:
>> just print the target, use the measure tool of PFP, check the box "QTR
>> Format Ovewrite" and read the patches.
> 
> Thanks. The process seems simple enough.
> 
> But since ABW is not a ICC based process, I would assume that the QTR ICC
> has no bearing on the actual printing of the print.
> 
> If that is the case, then the QTR ICC process really just results in a
> method to soft proof within PS.
> 
> Is the summary correct? If it is, why specify the ICC profile at all when
> printing?
> 
> I must be missing something. Basically, other than the soft proof, what's
> the point of a QTR ICC (or any ICC) when printing in ABW mode?
> 
> Dave.

In almost any color managed printer driver there's an option 
that allows you to use the color management of the 
application you print from by disabling the driver's color 
management. If you do that the driver is as dumb on color 
management as QTR and ABW are but for all three drivers you 
get the possibility to use the application's color 
management properly. With the normal color driver and with 
ABW this means a straight workflow, profiles selected in the 
application (PS, Qimage) and paper setting in the driver 
menu that pops up in the application. For QTR it is the same 
on a Mac from PS but for QTR on Windows you have to do a 
Profile to Profile (P2P) conversion in PS and save the file 
to QTR. With Qimage the color management can be done when 
you "print to file" and have the file appear in a hotfolder 
that will active QTR right away, Qimage will then also do 
all the other actions that you selected in that program.


Met vriendelijke groeten,  Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

In a message dated 6/6/07 10:57:05 PM, ausdlk@... writes:


> But since ABW is not a ICC based process, I would assume that the QTR ICC
> has no bearing on the actual printing of the print.
> 
> If that is the case, then the QTR ICC process really just results in a
> method to soft proof within PS.
> 
> Is the summary correct? If it is, why specify the ICC profile at all when
> printing?
> 
No, the resulting profile "linearizes" your grays (moves them up and down the 
gray axis to optimize their placement) when you print through it, as well as 
providing a softproof profile.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com



**************************************
 See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>ABW is only non-ICC based in that Epson does not provide any ICC profiles.

Man, when did this paradigm shift???

Forever, I have been under the impression that ICC profiles had no bearing
on ABW printing whatsoever.

How many times did I read something to this affect in this forum and
elsewhere?

I am astonished that I could have been so misinformed for so long despite
reading the content of this forum every day for the past several years.

BUT...

I did prove it to myself. I made four test prints (using the Northlight
Images test file) last night on my favorite Innova Gloss F on my 3800:


   1. ABW with color management turned off
   2. ABW with a color ICC profile I created with PFP
   3. ABW with a QTR created ICC profile
   4. from QTR (w/o any ICC profile in the chain) using the Silver Rag
   curve

Differences in the four prints were obvious.

In my (happy) ignorance, I had always previously used method 2.  But this
produced the worst print insofar as linear grays were concerned -- this was
particularly apparent in the test print's "circular patch".

Color me suddenly lots more edumacated...

And it was pretty clear that the shadow detail was best from method 4 -- as
particularly evident in the portion of the test print of the ruins and the
cliff wall. Print 3 was a pretty close 2nd.

This enviably leads to more questions and my status as a "non-tinkerer
printer" may be at risk.

Now I wonder, since I always use Qimage to print, if I should print to
file using the QTR ICC profile (as opposed to none) and not select a curve
in QTR? If I do this how would I make a warm or cool toned print? Should I
skip the QTR ICC altogether and just use QTR curves?

Cripes... I'm on a slippery slope of getting too wrapped in the techy
stuff...

Dave.


-- 
Portfolio: www.david-keenan.com/portfolio
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
2007 PAW: www.david-keenan.com/paw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,

I would make QTR ICCs for your favorite ABW settings.  Once you get it 
down, it is fast and simple.  In return, you get some consistency and a 
better way to compare different things.
At the end of the day, you should spend more time making prints and 
less time worrying.  Sometimes the road to less techy is being techy 
for a moment.

Peter