Digital BW, The Print

I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
sides are similar.

Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?

Terry.

The boxes I have are packaged print side up with liner paper between  
each sheet.

Carl

On Aug 21, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Terry Ritz wrote:

> I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> sides are similar.
>
> Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
>
> Terry.

Wet lips.

On Aug 21, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Terry Ritz wrote:

> I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> sides are similar.
>
> Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
>
> Terry.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Terry -- I had the same problem, and agree that the finger lick test 
does clearly differentiate (haven't tried lips yet :-) ). But . . . mine 
came with a cover sheet semi-attached to the print side. There's one for 
each piece of paper.

Cranes' email support is very good and quick, so you might see what they 
say.

Mitch

PS -- I really liked the paper! No extensive tests yet, but very smooth 
gradation of tones, and nice blacks.



Terry Ritz wrote:

> I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> sides are similar.
>
> Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
>
> Terry.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

This paper is packaged with side to be printed facing you, or as they say,
"print side up."

On 8/21/07, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...> wrote:
>
>   I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> sides are similar.
>
> Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
>
> Terry.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just have a couple of sample packs, so no enclosure noting the print
side. However, what you've suggested Sandy should (I hope) hold true.

Thanks all,

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Schaffell"
<sschaffell@...> wrote:
>
> This paper is packaged with side to be printed facing you, or as
they say,

> "print side up."
> 
> On 8/21/07, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...> wrote:
> >
> >   I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> > side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> > The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> > sides are similar.
> >
> > Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
> >
> > Terry.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

A trick I was taught is to slightly wet your thumb and forefinger and grasp
the paper at a corner. The side that sticks to a wet finger is the coated
side.

 

HTH,

Tom

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Ritz
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 3:17 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Museo Portfolio Rag - Which side is up?

 

I just have a couple of sample packs, so no enclosure noting the print
side. However, what you've suggested Sandy should (I hope) hold true.

Thanks all,

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Schaffell"
<sschaffell@...> wrote:
>
> This paper is packaged with side to be printed facing you, or as
they say,
> "print side up."
> 
> On 8/21/07, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> > side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> > The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> > sides are similar.
> >
> > Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
> >
> > Terry.
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
tell the difference.

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Maugham"
<Thomas@...> wrote:
>
> A trick I was taught is to slightly wet your thumb and forefinger
and grasp
> the paper at a corner. The side that sticks to a wet finger is the
coated

> side.
> 
>  
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Tom
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
> Ritz
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 3:17 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Museo Portfolio Rag - Which side is up?
> 
>  
> 
> I just have a couple of sample packs, so no enclosure noting the print
> side. However, what you've suggested Sandy should (I hope) hold true.
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> Terry.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy Schaffell"
> <sschaffell@> wrote:
> >
> > This paper is packaged with side to be printed facing you, or as
> they say,
> > "print side up."
> > 
> > On 8/21/07, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the print
> > > side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double sided.
> > > The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> > > sides are similar.
> > >
> > > Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
> > >
> > > Terry.
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Unfortunately it's coated on both sides I think the rear is coated in 
order to prevent excessive curl, but it's not coated to the full 
standard (so doesnt print very well...)

Without it being in the box with the interleaving, I could suggest 
sacrificing a small amount and actually printing a bit of black text 
on it using a standard rag/watercolour setting on the printer. The 
right side will look good. The wrong side won't look quite as good 
and should blur a bit...

otherwise, the correct side is the smoothest. the wrong side has a 
slightly more pronounced texture - but it's quite hard to tell

I just bought a sample pack too. It comes in an envelope with a nice 
picture on one side and the flap on the other. So which side is up, 
the package cover/insert side or the flap side that will be up when 
you actually open the package?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sandy 
Schaffell" <sschaffell@...> wrote:
>
> This paper is packaged with side to be printed facing you, or as 
they say,
> "print side up."
> 
> On 8/21/07, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...> wrote:
> >
> >   I'm having a really tough time determining which side is the 
print
> > side for Museo Portfolio Rag. This paper almost seems double 
sided.

> > The "finger lick" test seems pretty much useless and visually both
> > sides are similar.
> >
> > Has anyone found a good way to determine "up"?
> >
> > Terry.
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Bingo. . .  that's it!! 

Funny thing is, the side with slightly more texture seems to print sharper
to me.

Terry.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On 
> Behalf Of Tim Atherton
> Sent: August 21, 2007 6:11 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Museo Portfolio Rag - Which side is up?
> 
> Unfortunately it's coated on both sides I think the rear is coated in 
> order to prevent excessive curl, but it's not coated to the full 
> standard (so doesnt print very well...)
> 
> Without it being in the box with the interleaving, I could suggest 
> sacrificing a small amount and actually printing a bit of black text 
> on it using a standard rag/watercolour setting on the printer. The 
> right side will look good. The wrong side won't look quite as good 
> and should blur a bit...
> 
> otherwise, the correct side is the smoothest. the wrong side has a 
> slightly more pronounced texture - but it's quite hard to tell

At 03:48 PM 8/21/2007, you wrote:

>A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
>tell the difference.
>
>Terry.

Touch the paper with the back of your tongue.  More sensitive than 
your finger and already wet.

Tina

Tina Manley
ASMP, NPPA, EP, PI
http://www.tinamanley.com

really.....lick, lick

Tina Manley <images@...> wrote:                                  At 03:48 PM 8/21/2007, you wrote:
 
 >A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
 >tell the difference.
 >
 >Terry.
 
 Touch the paper with the back of your tongue.  More sensitive than 
 your finger and already wet.
 
 Tina
 
 Tina Manley
 ASMP, NPPA, EP, PI
 http://www.tinamanley.com 
 
 
     
                       


 Rob 
  
  
 Incoming and outgoing mail scanned by AVG 
 www.grisoft.com
  


       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hope we don't find out 20 years from now that they coat the paper  
with something toxic
:)
Mark

On Aug 22, 2007, at 10:57 AM, RobLee wrote:

> really.....lick, lick
>

Tina's work deserves attention. Visit her website.



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tina Manley
<images@...> wrote:

>
> At 03:48 PM 8/21/2007, you wrote:
> 
> >A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
> >tell the difference.
> >
> >Terry.
> 
> Touch the paper with the back of your tongue.  More sensitive than 
> your finger and already wet.
> 
> Tina
> 
> Tina Manley
> ASMP, NPPA, EP, PI
> http://www.tinamanley.com
>

I find that if I spread a mild mango chutney on both sides the print  
side is decidedly more tangy!

James



On Aug 22, 2007, at 9:57 AM, RobLee wrote:

> really.....lick, lick
>
> Tina Manley <images@...> wrote: At 03:48 PM 8/21/2007,  
> you wrote:
>
> >A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
> >tell the difference.
> >
> >Terry.
>
> Touch the paper with the back of your tongue. More sensitive than
> your finger and already wet.
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Manley
> ASMP, NPPA, EP, PI
> http://www.tinamanley.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
> Incoming and outgoing mail scanned by AVG
> www.grisoft.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on  
> Yahoo! TV.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the laugh James!
  With any inkjet paper you can scratch the surface to tell if it's coated or not, as the coating will scratch off. Also the coated side has a slightly rougher finish.
  Hope this helps.
  Charles

James Haney <lists@...> wrote:
  I find that if I spread a mild mango chutney on both sides the print 
side is decidedly more tangy!

James



On Aug 22, 2007, at 9:57 AM, RobLee wrote:

> really.....lick, lick
>
> Tina Manley wrote: At 03:48 PM 8/21/2007, 
> you wrote:
>
> >A wet finger works on all my other papers but not this one. I can't
> >tell the difference.
> >
> >Terry.
>
> Touch the paper with the back of your tongue. More sensitive than
> your finger and already wet.
>
> Tina
>
> Tina Manley
> ASMP, NPPA, EP, PI
> http://www.tinamanley.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
> Incoming and outgoing mail scanned by AVG
> www.grisoft.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on 
> Yahoo! TV.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links





       
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>   With any inkjet paper you can scratch the surface to tell if it's 
coated or not, as the coating will scratch off. Also the coated side 
has a slightly rougher finish.
>   Hope this helps.
>   Charles

but not... if the paper is coated on both sides but only one siide is 
designed for printing - as is the case with this paper (and Museo Max)

I've found that there is a subtle but definite difference between the  
coated and uncoated side of most matte papers. A fingernail scratch  
will usually reveal more of a sandpaper-like feeling on the coated  
side meant to be printed on. You can also try drawing on both sides  
with a pencil. Usually the side not meant to be printed on will  
accept the pencil more than the coated side. However, I generally use  
the scratch test and it has always worked for me.

All the best,

Andrew Darlow
Editor, The Imaging Buffet
http://www.imagingbuffet.com


On Aug 24, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Tim Atherton wrote:

>
> > With any inkjet paper you can scratch the surface to tell if it's
> coated or not, as the coating will scratch off. Also the coated side
> has a slightly rougher finish.
> > Hope this helps.
> > Charles
>
> but not... if the paper is coated on both sides but only one siide is
> designed for printing - as is the case with this paper (and Museo Max)
>
>
> _


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes you are correct Tim, they put a coating on the backside to help with curl, but it's not enough for printing. So with this paper the "scratch" test won't work.
  The printable side is out on rolls and up in sheets for most inkjet papers in there original packaging.

Tim Atherton <timatherton@telus.net> wrote:
          
> With any inkjet paper you can scratch the surface to tell if it's 
coated or not, as the coating will scratch off. Also the coated side 
has a slightly rougher finish.
> Hope this helps.
> Charles

but not... if the paper is coated on both sides but only one siide is 
designed for printing - as is the case with this paper (and Museo Max)



                         

       
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It seems to me that we are over thinking this issue.  The real
solution rests with Crane (and all other paper companies) to label
their paper in the packaging so that there is no confusion.  If the
paper is being repackaged, the same holds true for the repackager.

Crane takes great pride in their packaging.  It would seem that this
is a relatively trivial change to accommodate their customers.

Jim Steele
www.photographybysteele.com

> Yes you are correct Tim, they put a coating on the backside to help 
>with curl, but it's not enough for printing. So with this paper 
>the "scratch" test won't work.

of course the plus side of that is that it's possible to find a pritner 
setting that allows for nice crisp text on the reverse


tim a

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"jamesdsteele2001" <photographybysteele@...> wrote:
>
> It seems to me that we are over thinking this issue.  The real
> solution rests with Crane (and all other paper companies) to label
> their paper in the packaging so that there is no confusion.  If the
> paper is being repackaged, the same holds true for the repackager.
> 
> Crane takes great pride in their packaging.  It would seem that this
> is a relatively trivial change to accommodate their customers.
> 
> Jim Steele
> www.photographybysteele.com
>

FWIW, the info sheet that came with my Museo states clearly in what
looks like red rubber stamping, "Paper is packaged with PRINT SIDE
UP." So it looks like Crane had it together for that box anyway; but
for repackagers, that's another story.  They should also take care to
indicate what side is up.

good point, i have printed the back side of single sided inkjet paper through a laser printer before with mixed results.

Tim Atherton <timatherton@telus.net> wrote:          
> Yes you are correct Tim, they put a coating on the backside to help 
>with curl, but it's not enough for printing. So with this paper 
>the "scratch" test won't work.

of course the plus side of that is that it's possible to find a pritner 
setting that allows for nice crisp text on the reverse

tim a



                         

       
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Soooo - How do we convince them?



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "jamesdsteele2001" 
<photographybysteele@...> wrote:

>
> It seems to me that we are over thinking this issue.  The real
> solution rests with Crane (and all other paper companies) to label
> their paper in the packaging so that there is no confusion.  If the
> paper is being repackaged, the same holds true for the repackager.
> 
> Crane takes great pride in their packaging.  It would seem that this
> is a relatively trivial change to accommodate their customers.
> 
> Jim Steele
> www.photographybysteele.com
>

How many posts are we going to have on this? 
 
The paper is clearly face UP in the packaging. Museo PR even has an  
interleaf sheet covering the coated side to protect it, in the 13x19 size.
 
Richard Massie



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

:
>
> How many posts are we going to have on this? 
>  
> The paper is clearly face UP in the packaging. Museo PR even has an  
> interleaf sheet covering the coated side to protect it, in the 13x19 
size.
>  

because for one thing I've had boxes packed the wrong way up by Crane

and also, I believe this was a mixed sample pack, not packaged by 
Crane. If it's like the ones I've usually recieved, it's a transparent 
envelope with 10 or 12 sheets of different paper in it. How do you tell 
which way is up with a transparent envelope...?