Digital BW, The Print

I've finally given up on my Epson 4000.  Mine (my 3rd actually) is 
totally unreliable.  (Thanks anyway, but please, no suggestions on 
this thread on making it work....I have tried it ALL, over and over 
again).    

So, I am in the market for a new 17" or probably a 24" pigment based 
printer.  I want a printer with both MK and PK permanently installed, 
since I will print on glossy and matte papers, both color and B&W.

I'm interested in feedback from any large format Canon or HP owners, 
whether the feedback is good or bad.  I am looking specifically at 
the 24" HP Z3100 and the 24" Canon iPF 6100, but I am still 
interested in comments if you have a 17" carriage or wider than 24".  
I am specifically interested in print quality, ink usage, clogging or 
alignment problems, OEM support, B&W output with the standard driver, 
toning, etc.  

Oh, BTW, is there a good online forum for either the HP Z3100 or the 
Canon iPF 6100?

Thanks for any comments, and Merry Christmas to all.  

Lou

Hi Lou,

 

The fact that Bowhaus is supporting the imagePROGRAF (iPF) line could be a
factor.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis
Dina
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Anyone using large format Canon or HP printers?

 

I've finally given up on my Epson 4000. Mine (my 3rd actually) is 
totally unreliable. (Thanks anyway, but please, no suggestions on 
this thread on making it work....I have tried it ALL, over and over 
again). 

So, I am in the market for a new 17" or probably a 24" pigment based 
printer. I want a printer with both MK and PK permanently installed, 
since I will print on glossy and matte papers, both color and B&W.

I'm interested in feedback from any large format Canon or HP owners, 
whether the feedback is good or bad. I am looking specifically at 
the 24" HP Z3100 and the 24" Canon iPF 6100, but I am still 
interested in comments if you have a 17" carriage or wider than 24". 
I am specifically interested in print quality, ink usage, clogging or 
alignment problems, OEM support, B&W output with the standard driver, 
toning, etc. 

Oh, BTW, is there a good online forum for either the HP Z3100 or the 
Canon iPF 6100?

Thanks for any comments, and Merry Christmas to all. 

Lou

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You should check two sources for comments on user experience with the
HPZ3100 - The Luminous Landscape forum and the yahoo large format
inkjet printer list. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/ Do searches
for printers in the review section. These guys test them all.
Especially useful is their message boards on various products where
everyone is free to participate. 

There is not a forum devoted to either the Canons or the Z that really
will help you. I know one thing, the Canon 44" machine sure is cheap
right now. They must not be selling that hot, don't know. Check out
Shades Of Paper prices. I know the Bauhaus rip people told me they
really like the Canons. The only person I know that has the Canon 9000
really likes it and the only two people I know that have been using
the Z3100 44" both really like theirs. There aren't a lot of
complaints about the Epsons either, other than having to switch over
the PK to Mk etc.

Keep in mind there have been a lot of complaints about support lines
for both the Prograf and the HP Z. It seems that both of these
companies have not gotten up to speed with customer support, and even
firmware issues, but my impressions is that both printers are quite
good once you learn their individual quirks. Most people are so used
to Epsons that they don't have much patience in learning a new
hardware set up. The documentaion on the Canons is horrible, but they
are built like a tank and are quite fast.

john









--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lou,
> 
>  
> 
> The fact that Bowhaus is supporting the imagePROGRAF (iPF) line
could be a

> factor.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis
> Dina
> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 1:40 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Anyone using large format Canon or HP printers?
> 
>  
> 
> I've finally given up on my Epson 4000. Mine (my 3rd actually) is 
> totally unreliable. (Thanks anyway, but please, no suggestions on 
> this thread on making it work....I have tried it ALL, over and over 
> again). 
> 
> So, I am in the market for a new 17" or probably a 24" pigment based 
> printer. I want a printer with both MK and PK permanently installed, 
> since I will print on glossy and matte papers, both color and B&W.
> 
> I'm interested in feedback from any large format Canon or HP owners, 
> whether the feedback is good or bad. I am looking specifically at 
> the 24" HP Z3100 and the 24" Canon iPF 6100, but I am still 
> interested in comments if you have a 17" carriage or wider than 24". 
> I am specifically interested in print quality, ink usage, clogging or 
> alignment problems, OEM support, B&W output with the standard driver, 
> toning, etc. 
> 
> Oh, BTW, is there a good online forum for either the HP Z3100 or the 
> Canon iPF 6100?
> 
> Thanks for any comments, and Merry Christmas to all. 
> 
> Lou
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Strange your having major problems. Most issues can be related to the 
user not knowing how to operate the printers. The Large format 
printer are quite different from normal desktop printers. 
You don't really explain what problems your having or is it just you 
wanting things different than what Epson offers.

I sell all 3 brands and Epson is by far the best and support is 
excellent. Can say that about the others yet. Yes the PK/MK issue is 
there and ink is expensive. The 4000 is quite old now so I'll assume 
you are buying secondhand and maybe you are ending up with some elses 
headache. 

peter


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" 
<lou@...> wrote:
>
> I've finally given up on my Epson 4000.  Mine (my 3rd actually) is 
> totally unreliable.  (Thanks anyway, but please, no suggestions on 
> this thread on making it work....I have tried it ALL, over and over 
> again).    
> 
> So, I am in the market for a new 17" or probably a 24" pigment 
based 
> printer.  I want a printer with both MK and PK permanently 
installed, 
> since I will print on glossy and matte papers, both color and B&W.
> 
> I'm interested in feedback from any large format Canon or HP 
owners, 
> whether the feedback is good or bad.  I am looking specifically at 
> the 24" HP Z3100 and the 24" Canon iPF 6100, but I am still 
> interested in comments if you have a 17" carriage or wider than 
24".  
> I am specifically interested in print quality, ink usage, clogging 
or 
> alignment problems, OEM support, B&W output with the standard 
driver, 
> toning, etc.  
> 
> Oh, BTW, is there a good online forum for either the HP Z3100 or 
the 

> Canon iPF 6100?
> 
> Thanks for any comments, and Merry Christmas to all.  
> 
> Lou
>

As a follow up Louis on the problem with inkjet inks have a look at 
this link which may help you make an informed decision.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070618-study-inkjet-printers-
are-filthy-lying-thieves.html

Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pjb74nz" 
<peter@...> wrote:
>
> Strange your having major problems. Most issues can be related to 
the 
> user not knowing how to operate the printers. The Large format 
> printer are quite different from normal desktop printers. 
> You don't really explain what problems your having or is it just 
you 
> wanting things different than what Epson offers.
> 
> I sell all 3 brands and Epson is by far the best and support is 
> excellent. Can say that about the others yet. Yes the PK/MK issue 
is 
> there and ink is expensive. The 4000 is quite old now so I'll 
assume 
> you are buying secondhand and maybe you are ending up with some 
elses 
> headache. 
> 
> peter
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina" 
> <lou@> wrote:
> >
> > I've finally given up on my Epson 4000.  Mine (my 3rd actually) 
is 
> > totally unreliable.  (Thanks anyway, but please, no suggestions 
on 
> > this thread on making it work....I have tried it ALL, over and 
over 
> > again).    
> > 
> > So, I am in the market for a new 17" or probably a 24" pigment 
> based 
> > printer.  I want a printer with both MK and PK permanently 
> installed, 
> > since I will print on glossy and matte papers, both color and B&W.
> > 
> > I'm interested in feedback from any large format Canon or HP 
> owners, 
> > whether the feedback is good or bad.  I am looking specifically 
at 
> > the 24" HP Z3100 and the 24" Canon iPF 6100, but I am still 
> > interested in comments if you have a 17" carriage or wider than 
> 24".  
> > I am specifically interested in print quality, ink usage, 
clogging 

> or 
> > alignment problems, OEM support, B&W output with the standard 
> driver, 
> > toning, etc.  
> > 
> > Oh, BTW, is there a good online forum for either the HP Z3100 or 
> the 
> > Canon iPF 6100?
> > 
> > Thanks for any comments, and Merry Christmas to all.  
> > 
> > Lou
> >
>

Peter,

I bought a brand new 4000, and Epson sent me 2 rebuilt machines after 
the first one proved to be a dog.  All three have been lemons.  
Nothing but headaches.  Constant clogging, no matter what I do.  I 
hang out on most of the forums, know all the tricks and have tried 
them all, repeatedly.  Puddle clean, windex soaked paper towel under 
the head, warm water inside the printer chamber, humidifiers, printer 
covers, daily nozzle checks, daily printing, auto nozzle cleans, 
power cleans (Epson loves that one since they get to sell a lot of 
ink), tilting the printer back at an angle, OEM carts and inks, MIS 
carts and inks, flushing with nozzle cleaning solution, keeping carts 
75% full, putting nozzle cleaning solution in the parking pad, etc.  
I know some people have good success with their 4000's, but others 
don't.  I'm officially in the 2nd camp now.  It's been years of pure 
frustration and I finally ran out of patience.  Epson refuses to even 
acknowledge that a significant number of owners have problems, so it 
is time to look elsewhere.  

I know a LOT of people like me who have 4000's and have nothing but 
problems.  It seems to be the worst of the pack.  It is the worst 
purchase I have ever made.  

Lou

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pjb74nz" 
<peter@...> wrote:
>
> Strange your having major problems. Most issues can be related to 
the 
> user not knowing how to operate the printers. The Large format 
> printer are quite different from normal desktop printers. 
> You don't really explain what problems your having or is it just 
you 
> wanting things different than what Epson offers.
> 
> I sell all 3 brands and Epson is by far the best and support is 
> excellent. Can say that about the others yet. Yes the PK/MK issue 
is 
> there and ink is expensive. The 4000 is quite old now so I'll 
assume 
> you are buying secondhand and maybe you are ending up with some 
elses 

> headache. 
> 
> peter

Hi Lou,

Like you, I had three Epson 4000's go through my studio.  Major
hassles and problems, tremendous ink wastage and down time due to
nozzle clogs, air in lines, one friggin thing after another.  As a
business person, was really not acceptable at all.  In August 2006, I
replaced the last 4000 with a Canon iPF5000.  Yeah, the interface took
getting use to, and there were a few support issues initially, etc. 
But overall, I couldn't be more pleased.  The printer has been in use
for 16 months without a single nozzle clog or printhead problem.  Just
does the job, day after day, week after week.  The new version (5100)
and the iPF6100 look like they are even better.  I also have an Epson
3800 in the studio as a backup 17" printer and to do all my small cut
sheet (mostly 5x7).  I've had it in use for about a year and it
appears to be much more reliable than the 4000's ever were.  

Tony Bonanno
Santa Fe, NM

everyone I know with 4000s have had similar stories. The only one I've personally used, 
with K7s, seemed fine for the most part, but I'm only around it a week a year <G>.
No idea how well it does the rest of the year. Another friend has been through 3 or 4 just 
like the rest of you.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Bonanno" 
<tony.groups@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Lou,
> 
> Like you, I had three Epson 4000's go through my studio.  Major
> hassles and problems, tremendous ink wastage and down time due to
> nozzle clogs, air in lines, one friggin thing after another.  As a
> business person, was really not acceptable at all.  In August 2006, I
> replaced the last 4000 with a Canon iPF5000.  Yeah, the interface took
> getting use to, and there were a few support issues initially, etc. 
> But overall, I couldn't be more pleased.  The printer has been in use
> for 16 months without a single nozzle clog or printhead problem.  Just
> does the job, day after day, week after week.  The new version (5100)
> and the iPF6100 look like they are even better.  I also have an Epson
> 3800 in the studio as a backup 17" printer and to do all my small cut
> sheet (mostly 5x7).  I've had it in use for about a year and it
> appears to be much more reliable than the 4000's ever were.  
> 
> Tony Bonanno
> Santa Fe, NM
>

It's an Edsel. What else is new? 

Think of the rotten Canons and HPs that have been peddled in the same
time-frame. Life's tough in the fast lane. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Louis Dina"
<lou@...> wrote:

>
> Peter,
> 
> I bought a brand new 4000, and Epson sent me 2 rebuilt machines after 
> the first one proved to be a dog.  All three have been lemons.  
> Nothing but headaches.  Constant clogging, no matter what I do.  I 
> hang out on most of the forums, know all the tricks and have tried 
> them all, repeatedly.  Puddle clean, windex soaked paper towel under 
> the head, warm water inside the printer chamber, humidifiers, printer 
> covers, daily nozzle checks, daily printing, auto nozzle cleans, 
> power cleans (Epson loves that one since they get to sell a lot of 
> ink), tilting the printer back at an angle, OEM carts and inks, MIS 
> carts and inks, flushing with nozzle cleaning solution, keeping carts 
> 75% full, putting nozzle cleaning solution in the parking pad, etc.  
> I know some people have good success with their 4000's, but others 
> don't.  I'm officially in the 2nd camp now.  It's been years of pure 
> frustration and I finally ran out of patience.  Epson refuses to even 
> acknowledge that a significant number of owners have problems, so it 
> is time to look elsewhere.  
> 
> I know a LOT of people like me who have 4000's and have nothing but 
> problems.  It seems to be the worst of the pack.  It is the worst 
> purchase I have ever made.  
> 
> Lou
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pjb74nz" 
> <peter@> wrote:
> >
> > Strange your having major problems. Most issues can be related to 
> the 
> > user not knowing how to operate the printers. The Large format 
> > printer are quite different from normal desktop printers. 
> > You don't really explain what problems your having or is it just 
> you 
> > wanting things different than what Epson offers.
> > 
> > I sell all 3 brands and Epson is by far the best and support is 
> > excellent. Can say that about the others yet. Yes the PK/MK issue 
> is 
> > there and ink is expensive. The 4000 is quite old now so I'll 
> assume 
> > you are buying secondhand and maybe you are ending up with some 
> elses 
> > headache. 
> > 
> > peter
>

There is a site that is full of information on the large format  
Canon's : http://canonipf.wikispaces.com/

Carl

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There have alway been problems associated with the 4000 series Epsons.
Clogging and ink waste is the number one complaint. I have a friend
who has a studio full of all kinds of Epsons and the new Canon 9000
and he said the only printer that has continually given him headaches
is the Epson 4000. If you check the Epson Large Format yahoo list and
search for the 4000 you will see what I'm talking about.

john