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New papers comparison made

New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by Scott Jones

Hi there,

My local photo store finally got in many of the new fiber papers and 
after reading all the very excited discussions of these products 
online I was very excited to see these new products since everyone 
was going nuts extolling their virtues online. I am a user of Epson 
Premium Semigloss (EPSG) which is an RC type paper but has a nice 
creamy surface that I think is similar to air dried fiber of yore and 
not as stipply/sparkly as Luster.

So I thought there was really going to be a revolution in the look of 
these products. I was amazed at how little a difference there was. 
Mind you I have always used photo black on a photo type paper and 
never have used mat papers and mat black ink. So I was already used 
to deep Dmax and high saturation.

I looked at Epson Premium Semigloss (EPSG) and Luster, and then 
compared them to Epson Exhibition, Ilford Gold Silk Fibre, Hahnemühle 
baryta fiber 325. All the prints were of the same test image with 
B&W, color, skin tones, and tone ramps. Printed on the same R3800 
with the K3 inks.

Surprisingly all the prints to the naked eye looked to have 
approximately the same nice dense Dmax. Epson Exhibition maybe had a 
touch deeper black but it was VERY subtle. Colors and B&W all looked 
great. The only real differences were the base color of the papers 
which were very subtlely different and would only be noticed when 
seen side by side. EPSG/Luster slightly blue, Exhibition/baryta very 
clean white, Ilford gold slightly warm. The surface textures were 
very subtley different as well. Exhibition looked like air dried 
fiber but not highly different than EPSG, Baryta fiber looked very 
stipply like Luster, Ilford gold was also slightly creamy smooth like 
EPSG and Exhibition.

The feel of the papers was different with the three new papers 
feeling hefty and like paper and not like the EPSG/Luster RC feel. 
BUT, when I put these papers up on a viewing rail in three different 
types of light nobody could tell the difference between all five 
papers except for some slight paper base tone doifferences (very 
slight). If I had to pick a favorite it would be the Exhibition 
probably because the base was the most neutral and brightest white, 
but these things are subtle.

There was some gloss differential on all the papers especially in the 
highlights and the darket blacks, with again Exhibition maybe having 
a little less. Had to tilt all the papers just right to see this so 
again for exhibition purposes nobody is going to notice.

So bottom line is I was somewhat shocked at how little difference 
there was between the old "RC" standbys and thee new "suerfiber" 
papers. I think mounted or framed or matted, there is really no 
significant difference. If feeling the print in your hand is very 
important then yes there is a different feel. The local digital 
expert at my store laughed and said he really thought there was so 
much hype about the new papers and felt that most of it was marketing 
push. He by the way is quite experienced and not your usual camera 
store sales guy.

Now, if you have been printing on mat paper with mat black ink, you 
are going to notice a huge change. But if you have been using EPSG or 
Luster, then this is not a revolution IMHO, unless the feel of these 
photo papers in the hand just drives you nuts for some reason. With a 
13x19 piece of Exhibition being 2.5X more expensive that a sheet of 
EPSG (Atlex), I am really not sure it makes sense. Perhaps I will use 
some for special projects. Or perhaps I will keep using the EPSG 
until I know I absolutely want a high grade exhibition print of a 
given image and then use the EEF paper. I am just not sure anybody 
except me or one of my super picky photo/tech friends would ever 
notice.

I have not seen Harmon Fibre Gloss yet and will order a sample pack 
in that my local place will not be carrying that one.

Hopefully some will find my experience helpful. Obviously these are 
very opinionated reactions coming from a certain working perspective.

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by gvalansi

Thanks Scott!
very helpfull.
Did you try the Epson Premium luster? and the Oriental fiber glossy?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "Scott Jones" <peanutdogs@...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi there,
> 
> My local photo store finally got in many of the new fiber papers and 
> after reading all the very excited discussions of these products 
> online I was very excited to see these new products since everyone 
> was going nuts extolling their virtues online. I am a user of Epson 
> Premium Semigloss (EPSG) which is an RC type paper but has a nice 
> creamy surface that I think is similar to air dried fiber of yore and 
> not as stipply/sparkly as Luster.
> 
> So I thought there was really going to be a revolution in the look of 
> these products. I was amazed at how little a difference there was. 
> Mind you I have always used photo black on a photo type paper and 
> never have used mat papers and mat black ink. So I was already used 
> to deep Dmax and high saturation.
> 
> I looked at Epson Premium Semigloss (EPSG) and Luster, and then 
> compared them to Epson Exhibition, Ilford Gold Silk Fibre, Hahnemühle 
> baryta fiber 325. All the prints were of the same test image with 
> B&W, color, skin tones, and tone ramps. Printed on the same R3800 
> with the K3 inks.
> 
> Surprisingly all the prints to the naked eye looked to have 
> approximately the same nice dense Dmax. Epson Exhibition maybe had a 
> touch deeper black but it was VERY subtle. Colors and B&W all looked 
> great. The only real differences were the base color of the papers 
> which were very subtlely different and would only be noticed when 
> seen side by side. EPSG/Luster slightly blue, Exhibition/baryta very 
> clean white, Ilford gold slightly warm. The surface textures were 
> very subtley different as well. Exhibition looked like air dried 
> fiber but not highly different than EPSG, Baryta fiber looked very 
> stipply like Luster, Ilford gold was also slightly creamy smooth like 
> EPSG and Exhibition.
> 
> The feel of the papers was different with the three new papers 
> feeling hefty and like paper and not like the EPSG/Luster RC feel. 
> BUT, when I put these papers up on a viewing rail in three different 
> types of light nobody could tell the difference between all five 
> papers except for some slight paper base tone doifferences (very 
> slight). If I had to pick a favorite it would be the Exhibition 
> probably because the base was the most neutral and brightest white, 
> but these things are subtle.
> 
> There was some gloss differential on all the papers especially in the 
> highlights and the darket blacks, with again Exhibition maybe having 
> a little less. Had to tilt all the papers just right to see this so 
> again for exhibition purposes nobody is going to notice.
> 
> So bottom line is I was somewhat shocked at how little difference 
> there was between the old "RC" standbys and thee new "suerfiber" 
> papers. I think mounted or framed or matted, there is really no 
> significant difference. If feeling the print in your hand is very 
> important then yes there is a different feel. The local digital 
> expert at my store laughed and said he really thought there was so 
> much hype about the new papers and felt that most of it was marketing 
> push. He by the way is quite experienced and not your usual camera 
> store sales guy.
> 
> Now, if you have been printing on mat paper with mat black ink, you 
> are going to notice a huge change. But if you have been using EPSG or 
> Luster, then this is not a revolution IMHO, unless the feel of these 
> photo papers in the hand just drives you nuts for some reason. With a 
> 13x19 piece of Exhibition being 2.5X more expensive that a sheet of 
> EPSG (Atlex), I am really not sure it makes sense. Perhaps I will use 
> some for special projects. Or perhaps I will keep using the EPSG 
> until I know I absolutely want a high grade exhibition print of a 
> given image and then use the EEF paper. I am just not sure anybody 
> except me or one of my super picky photo/tech friends would ever 
> notice.
> 
> I have not seen Harmon Fibre Gloss yet and will order a sample pack 
> in that my local place will not be carrying that one.
> 
> Hopefully some will find my experience helpful. Obviously these are 
> very opinionated reactions coming from a certain working perspective.
> 
> http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
>

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by Clayton Jones

Hello Scott,

>Hopefully some will find my experience helpful. Obviously these are 
>very opinionated reactions coming from a certain working perspective.

Thanks very much for the report.  I've mostly used matte papers with
aoccasional tests of Silver Rag and a few others, so your perspective
is very enlightening.  

One thing you didn't touch on is the longevity issue (OBA color
changes, fade resistance, etc).  I have assumed there would be a
difference here between the new "fiber" papers and the RC types...have
you gathered any statistics on that?

Thanks very much.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by Scott Jones

> One thing you didn't touch on is the longevity issue (OBA color
> changes, fade resistance, etc).  I have assumed there would be a
> difference here between the new "fiber" papers and the RC types...have
> you gathered any statistics on that?
> 
> Thanks very much.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>

Alas Clayton I do not have any info on that but can tell you I have 
been using EPSG for years and have noticed no problems at all, but have 
not run any specific tests. EPSG is reputed by Epson to not have any 
OBAs, but this is vigorously debated on the internet by those with 
strong opinions. 

Scott

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by Kurt Kramer

EPSG?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Alas Clayton I do not have any info on that but can tell you I have 
> been using EPSG for years and have noticed no problems at all, but have 
> not run any specific tests. EPSG is reputed by Epson to not have any 
> OBAs, but this is vigorously debated on the internet by those with 
> strong opinions. 
> 
> Scott
>

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by John

EPSON Premium Semi-Gloss photo paper
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Kramer"
<k.kramer@...> wrote:
>
> EPSG?
> 
> 
> > 
> > Alas Clayton I do not have any info on that but can tell you I have 
> > been using EPSG for years and have noticed no problems at all, but
have 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > not run any specific tests. EPSG is reputed by Epson to not have any 
> > OBAs, but this is vigorously debated on the internet by those with 
> > strong opinions. 
> > 
> > Scott
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] New papers comparison made

2008-01-11 by Earl Olsen

Scott,

Thank you for your new paper comparison. I have just purchased a new 7800 printer and I'm looking at Photo Black papers to take advantage the K3 ink set. I have a couple of questions regarding EPSG. I sell framed prints and I have used Epson Premium Luster RC paper in the past but switched to Hahemuhle photo rag for two reasons.

Outgassing - I have had problems even after several days of drying with a cover sheet(s) of paper particularly if the direct sunlight hits the framed print.
Print Flatness - the print paper tends to not lie flat with larger prints when the print is hindged to the backing board.

What has been your experence with outgassing and print flatness when using Epson Premium Semigloss? Do you take any precautions like spraying the print before matting and vacume mounting for flatness?

Earl
_________________________
Earl Olsen Photography
www.earlolsen.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: New papers comparison made

2008-01-12 by Scott Jones

Sorry, Epson premium Semigloss


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kurt Kramer" 
<k.kramer@...> wrote:
>
> EPSG?
> 
> 
> > 
> > Alas Clayton I do not have any info on that but can tell you I have 
> > been using EPSG for years and have noticed no problems at all, but 
have 
> > not run any specific tests. EPSG is reputed by Epson to not have 
any 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > OBAs, but this is vigorously debated on the internet by those with 
> > strong opinions. 
> > 
> > Scott
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] New papers comparison made

2008-01-12 by Scott Jones

Hi there,

I have had no problems with any kind of outgassing and have several 
long term framed prints with no troubles. The prints probably have 
well dried though for several days before I have framed them.

As for lying flat, I dry mount all my prints so I cannot speak to 
rippling on non mounted prints. Hope that helps.

Lastly I have never had to spray the prints.

Cheers,

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Olsen" 
<emolsen@...> wrote:
>
> Scott,
> 
> Thank you for your new paper comparison. I have just purchased a 
new 7800 printer and I'm looking at Photo Black papers to take 
advantage the K3 ink set. I have a couple of questions regarding 
EPSG. I sell framed prints and I have used Epson Premium Luster RC 
paper in the past but switched to Hahemuhle photo rag for two reasons.
> 
> Outgassing - I have had problems even after several days of drying 
with a cover sheet(s) of paper particularly if the direct sunlight 
hits the framed print.
> Print Flatness - the print paper tends to not lie flat with larger 
prints when the print is hindged to the backing board.
> 
> What has been your experence with outgassing and print flatness 
when using Epson Premium Semigloss? Do you take any precautions like 
spraying the print before matting and vacume mounting for flatness?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Earl
> _________________________
> Earl Olsen Photography
> www.earlolsen.com
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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