Digital BW, The Print

I've been printing with K3 inks on an Epson 2400 in ABW mode,
and have been very pleased with the results on glossy paper. I
decided to give MIS K4 inks a try, both because of the reduced
cost, and because of the hope that I would get better results on
matte papers -- in particular, a flatter look in the black and
eventually (when I follow Paul Roark's advice and switch the
yellow for a light carbon) better neutrality.

But my first experiments have not been encouraging. I get a very
slight but unpleasant greenish-blue cast in the shadows. I
suspect it's noticeable only because the lighter tones are so
warm. I'm surprised by this because I thought that MIS Eboni
would be _warmer_ than Epson MK, so I would expect that if
ABW mixes in some color to cool off the ink in the shadows, it
would result in less cooling in the K4 case.

When I print a 21-step ramp, the color cast is evident in the 85%
patch, with the A* value dipping below the axis to about -0.5.
Both A* and B* are positive elsewhere with reasonable values
(between 0 and 2). These readings are on EEM; Photo Rag shows
a similar effect.

I'm wondering if I have a bad batch of Eboni. When I paint some
of the ink straight onto paper with a cotton bud and take
readings, I get A*=0.7 and B*=1.6, which seems reasonable.
When I print in black only mode, the print doesn't look very
warm at all, which is surprising. (But maybe selecting "black"
mode in the driver doesn't actually restrict the ink to black?)

One other piece of information: I still have some of the original
K3 cartridges in: M and LM, following Roark's advice that they
are better magentas than MIS's, and C.

Any advice would be very welcome...

--Daniel

Hello Daniel,

I don't know about the K4 inks but I can answer this part...

>(But maybe selecting "black" mode in the driver doesn't actually 
>restrict the ink to black?)

No, it doesn't.  That's just a quick and dirty brain-dead way of
making a BW print from a color image.  It's not even ABW which is
mostly the 3 blacks.  Look at it with a loupe and you'll see lots of
colors in there, way more than ABW.  The 2400 doesn't have a BO option
(sad to say).


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

In working with a 2400 the other day for the first time, I failed to see a
tint picking circle for ABW. Does it not have one? Just a drop down menu
with three choices?

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

It's not even ABW which is
mostly the 3 blacks. Look at it with a loupe and you'll see lots of
colors in there, way more than ABW. The 2400 doesn't have a BO option
(sad to say).

Regards,
Clayton
__ 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have the 4800, but I believe that they are set up the same. You have 
to have an image open in PS. When you bring up the print dialog, page 
setup. Pick your media type and then pick Advanced B&W in the box 
labled "Color". Click "Custom" and then click the "Advanced..." button. 
This brings up the tint picking circle. FYI there is an artical in the 
new issue of Digital Photo Pro that goes over the ABW in Epson 
printers. Hope this helps!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen" 
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> In working with a 2400 the other day for the first time, I failed to 
see a
> tint picking circle for ABW. Does it not have one? Just a drop down 
menu

> with three choices?
> 
>  
> 
> Eric Neilsen Photography

Following up on my own question in the hope of inspiring someone
out there to help. In short, has anyone successfully used MIS's K4
inkset in ABW mode on the 2400?

My nasty suspicion is that the reason I get greenish casts in the 
shadows is that the K4 inks don't match the Epson K3 inks closely 
enough in tone to make ABW usable -- that actually what's happening
is not that the shadows are greener but that the lighter tones are so
much warmer in K4 that the print overall is no longer properly
balanced.

--Daniel

Hello Daniel, perhaps I can help a bit

>>in particular, a flatter look in the black <<

The MIS PK inks as a whole don't gloss up as much as the Epsons, and 
the Epson PK generally gets a better Dmax. I'm currently trying to 
mix epson PK with the MIS LK and LLK, and that doesn't work too well 
either-the border areas between full black and the mix show 
pronounced bronzing which requires spraying or glop to hide it.

As for Eboni vs Epson MK, the Eboni is not warmer, it more neutral, 
though it has a plum-colored, selenium-like tint, whereas the Epson 
has a yellow-brown-olive tint. And as you mentioned, the LK and LLK 
is much warmer in MIS inks. The color shift with Eboni is not 
linear, so it makes sense that there would be a color shift in the 
ABW compensation, since it si set up for Epson MK.
> 
> But my first experiments have not been encouraging. I get a very
> slight but unpleasant greenish-blue cast in the shadows. I
> suspect it's noticeable only because the lighter tones are so
> warm. I'm surprised by this because I thought that MIS Eboni
> would be _warmer_ than Epson MK, so I would expect that if
> ABW mixes in some color to cool off the ink in the shadows, it
> would result in less cooling in the K4 case. 

I'm not surprised you're having trouble, though I'm disapointed-I'd 
hoped to got this route myself when the 3800 resetters became 
available.

Obviously the simplest fix is to go back to Epson ink (ouch!). If 
you can afford the investment you can bring down the cost by buying 
220ml carts on ebay (only 'new, sealed' ones) they go for 65.00-
75.00.

Another alternative is to use QTR and compensate in the curve or 
profile. That's a lot more work if you aren't arleady familiar with 
it.

Also, some list members are using profiles in conjunction with ABW 
to fine tune it, though I'm not at all clear how that works. Perhaps 
someone else can jump in and give you some info on that?

Best luck,

Steve Karafyllakis

> 
> When I print a 21-step ramp, the color cast is evident in the 85%
> patch, with the A* value dipping below the axis to about -0.5.
> Both A* and B* are positive elsewhere with reasonable values
> (between 0 and 2). These readings are on EEM; Photo Rag shows
> a similar effect.
> 
> I'm wondering if I have a bad batch of Eboni. When I paint some
> of the ink straight onto paper with a cotton bud and take
> readings, I get A*=0.7 and B*=1.6, which seems reasonable.
> When I print in black only mode, the print doesn't look very
> warm at all, which is surprising. (But maybe selecting "black"
> mode in the driver doesn't actually restrict the ink to black?)
> 
> One other piece of information: I still have some of the original
> K3 cartridges in: M and LM, following Roark's advice that they
> are better magentas than MIS's, and C.
> 
> Any advice would be very welcome...
> 
> --Daniel
>

Steve,

Thanks for your response!

Your observations about Epson MK vs. Eboni confirm what Paul Roark
explained to me offline. Mixing Epson MK and MIS LK and LLK seems to
produce very nice prints, so that looks like a reasonable solution for
matte papers. I'm very disappointed to hear that Epson PK and MIS inks
produce a gloss differential though, because that means my solution to
the green shadow problem won't work on glossy paper.

How big is the dmax difference between Eboni and Epson PKs?

The profiling method you're referring to is very straightforward and I've
been doing it for a while. You just print out a greyscale ramp, read it
with a spectrometer, and run Roy Harrington's createICC. This gives you
an ICC profile that you can use to linearize the driver in ABW, but
it doesn't give you any control over colours.

--Daniel