Digital BW, The Print

I'm printing in ABW mode on an Epson 2400 with Epson K3 inks.

My prints often have a very slight bluish color cast in the shadows; when I
stare at the print for a few minutes, the effect is enough to make them look
slightly hand-coloured. It's only noticeable on prints in which there's a
smooth gradient in the shadow tones (eg in a darkening sky, or around the
hairline in a portrait). Spectrometer readings show the effect as a dip in B*
of about 2 points at densities between 70% and 90% typically.

Has anyone else been bothered by this effect? I'm not sure if I'm expecting
too much from ABW; given that ABW uses standard settings for all papers
with a given media type, I'd expect some color shifts across papers, but I'm
surprised that it looks so bad. And I see it even on EEM too, albeit to a
lesser degree than on Entrada and Photo Rag.

--Daniel

I found my ABW prints to look quite artificial. They were excellent in neutral, but I did experience the ABW as a little over blue.  I was quite put off.
 
For purely economical reasons initially, I shifted to Paul Roark's UT-3D inks and workflow.  That gives beautiful cool black prints.  I think its quite a challenge for the Epson driver to mix in just enought blue pigment without it showing.  MIS did the mixing already, so the effect is more subtle
 
I agreed with everyone who I have heard say that 2400 with K3 is amazing.  It is!  But in my experience shifting to the Eboni-based UT-3D inks took me to another level entirely.
 
Tim Atkinson 

________________________________

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of daniel
Sent: Tue 2/19/2008 11:02 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] color casts in ABW?



I'm printing in ABW mode on an Epson 2400 with Epson K3 inks.

My prints often have a very slight bluish color cast in the shadows; when I
stare at the print for a few minutes, the effect is enough to make them look
slightly hand-coloured. It's only noticeable on prints in which there's a
smooth gradient in the shadow tones (eg in a darkening sky, or around the
hairline in a portrait). Spectrometer readings show the effect as a dip in B*
of about 2 points at densities between 70% and 90% typically.

Has anyone else been bothered by this effect? I'm not sure if I'm expecting
too much from ABW; given that ABW uses standard settings for all papers
with a given media type, I'd expect some color shifts across papers, but I'm
surprised that it looks so bad. And I see it even on EEM too, albeit to a
lesser degree than on Entrada and Photo Rag.

--Daniel



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Som people (like me) are expceptionally sensitive to slight color 
shifts in monchrome printing. Others don't notice it at all. I felt my 
ABW printing on EPSG paper was just ever so slightly blue green so I 
used the toning wheel feature with settings 2H and -1v to move the tone 
just a bit toward the magenta and it looks neutral to me. You might try 
these very subtle toning wheel moves and see if it solves 
your "problem". It did for me. My wife who is an artist thinks I am 
nuts, but I suspect we all have very different sensitivities to this 
phenomenon of red-green sensitivity.

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

Just to clarify -- I see this effect independent of ABW settings
(not that I've tried them all!). That is, the problem isn't that the
whole print has a colour cast, but that there's a noticeable and
discontinuous shift at around 70 or 80% density.

--Daniel

Have you tried making your own ICC grayscale/ toned profiles with Profile Maker or Datacolor? K3 inks being what they are should change from printer to printer. Could it be that the print head is just not up to snuff? 


I don't have a 2400, just a 4800 in the new K3 line but I don't see that issue. 

Eric

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tim Atkinson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:29 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] color casts in ABW?


  I found my ABW prints to look quite artificial. They were excellent in neutral, but I did experience the ABW as a little over blue. I was quite put off.

  For purely economical reasons initially, I shifted to Paul Roark's UT-3D inks and workflow. That gives beautiful cool black prints. I think its quite a challenge for the Epson driver to mix in just enought blue pigment without it showing. MIS did the mixing already, so the effect is more subtle

  I agreed with everyone who I have heard say that 2400 with K3 is amazing. It is! But in my experience shifting to the Eboni-based UT-3D inks took me to another level entirely.

  Tim Atkinson 

  ________________________________

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of daniel
  Sent: Tue 2/19/2008 11:02 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] color casts in ABW?

  I'm printing in ABW mode on an Epson 2400 with Epson K3 inks.

  My prints often have a very slight bluish color cast in the shadows; when I
  stare at the print for a few minutes, the effect is enough to make them look
  slightly hand-coloured. It's only noticeable on prints in which there's a
  smooth gradient in the shadow tones (eg in a darkening sky, or around the
  hairline in a portrait). Spectrometer readings show the effect as a dip in B*
  of about 2 points at densities between 70% and 90% typically.

  Has anyone else been bothered by this effect? I'm not sure if I'm expecting
  too much from ABW; given that ABW uses standard settings for all papers
  with a given media type, I'd expect some color shifts across papers, but I'm
  surprised that it looks so bad. And I see it even on EEM too, albeit to a
  lesser degree than on Entrada and Photo Rag.

  --Daniel

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Daniel,

>Just to clarify -- I see this effect independent of ABW settings
>(not that I've tried them all!). That is, the problem isn't that the
>whole print has a colour cast, but that there's a noticeable and
>discontinuous shift at around 70 or 80% density.

My eyes are very color sensitive and I've had to select the ABW
settings very carefully - and it's different for every paper.  Given
that, I've been using a 2400 for just over 2.5 years now and have
never seen anything like what you're describing.  If you regularly
have a color shift at 70-80% on various papers then it does sound like
some sort of printer problem.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
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