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2008-03-18 by Brian Corll
Does anyone know if the ASTM pigment names and numbers for Epson inks are published anywhere, or does anyone have this information ? -------------------------------- Brian Corll http://www.briancorll.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by pr_roark
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Corll" <briancorll@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the ASTM pigment names and numbers for Epson inks are > published anywhere, or does anyone have this information ? The numbers on the right at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Color-pigments.jpg <http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Color-pigments.jpg> may be what you're looking for. They appear to be fairly standard in the color industry. The magenta may be slightly different. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by Brian Corll
Thanks, Paul. Interesting.having been a painter for 40 years I recognize all of the pigment names. The red is quinacridone red, slight bluish, non-toxic, and the most lightfast color in its range. The blue is phthalocyanine blue (my favorite), possibly carcinogenic, and also complete permanent (in use since 1936). The yellow is Hansa yellow,non-toxic, may fade in tints. Just what I expected. -------------------------------- Brian Corll http://www.briancorll.com
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:22 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: ASTM Pigment Names and Numbers --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Brian Corll" <briancorll@...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if the ASTM pigment names and numbers for Epson inks are > published anywhere, or does anyone have this information ? The numbers on the right at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Color-pigments.jpg <http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Color-pigments.jpg> may be what you're looking for. They appear to be fairly standard in the color industry. The magenta may be slightly different. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by pr_roark
> ... having been a painter for 40 years I recognize all > of the pigment names. In a sense, inkjet printers are photographic water-color painters. > The red is quinacridone red, slight bluish, non-toxic, > and the most lightfast color in its range. The blue is phthalocyanine blue > (my favorite), possibly carcinogenic, and also complete permanent (in use > since 1936). The cyan is very lightfast, but it is subject to UV and gas attack. >The yellow is Hansa yellow,non-toxic, may fade in tints. Just > what I expected. There is a very interesting Dan Smith pigment that is directly opposite carbon yellow in the color wheel and can make a single-pigment offset to the carbon. It's indanthrone blue. I've actually used it in an inkjet printer and fade tested it. It's not quite up to cyan, but overall in the same league as our M + C cooling methods. And, it will not cause the inkset to drift into green as it fades. The fade path will be straight back to carbon warm. Some innovative ink company ought to persuade Dan Smith or IS to do the correct prep work needed to make this into a viable inkjet pigment for B&W. I've obviously decided not to take on that task myself. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by Brian Corll
Paul, What do you mean by "correct prep work needed to make this into a viable inkjet pigment" ? -------------------------------- Brian Corll http://www.briancorll.com
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:14 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: ASTM Pigment Names and Numbers > ... having been a painter for 40 years I recognize all > of the pigment names. In a sense, inkjet printers are photographic water-color painters. > The red is quinacridone red, slight bluish, non-toxic, > and the most lightfast color in its range. The blue is phthalocyanine blue > (my favorite), possibly carcinogenic, and also complete permanent (in use > since 1936). The cyan is very lightfast, but it is subject to UV and gas attack. >The yellow is Hansa yellow,non-toxic, may fade in tints. Just > what I expected. There is a very interesting Dan Smith pigment that is directly opposite carbon yellow in the color wheel and can make a single-pigment offset to the carbon. It's indanthrone blue. I've actually used it in an inkjet printer and fade tested it. It's not quite up to cyan, but overall in the same league as our M + C cooling methods. And, it will not cause the inkset to drift into green as it fades. The fade path will be straight back to carbon warm. Some innovative ink company ought to persuade Dan Smith or IS to do the correct prep work needed to make this into a viable inkjet pigment for B&W. I've obviously decided not to take on that task myself. Paul www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by pr_roark
Brian wrote: > What do you mean by "correct prep work needed to make > this into a viable inkjet pigment" ? The pigment particle sizes need to be correct, and I believe dispersants are added at the ball grinding stage. The water color pigment I bought and used would not stay in suspension well enough to be used for other than testing. It also did not print as smoothly as it should have. So, I think more is needed than just putting water color pigments into a good base and filtering it to eliminate the large particles. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2008-03-19 by Greg
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Corll" <briancorll@...> wrote: > > Paul, > > What do you mean by "correct prep work needed to make this into a viable > inkjet pigment" ? > > > Grinding to the proper size, suspending it in the proper base, and concentrating it to the proper amount is really all it would take. As a specialty ink it would not be a mass market seller, so the price to have Image Specialists produce this would probably be very high. What we now need is a DIY pigment grinder and filter, plus a good mixer to make this a DIY project. Buy the base in the gallon sizes and go. Still not exactly cheap, but possibly cheaper than having an ink company make extremely short runs. Anything less than several 55 gallon drums is a short run for most of them.
2008-03-19 by Brian Corll
Have you tried Sinopia or Kremer pigments ? Were the watercolor pigments dry or already mixed with gum arabic ? -------------------------------- Brian Corll http://www.briancorll.com
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:49 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: ASTM Pigment Names and Numbers Brian wrote: > What do you mean by "correct prep work needed to make > this into a viable inkjet pigment" ? The pigment particle sizes need to be correct, and I believe dispersants are added at the ball grinding stage. The water color pigment I bought and used would not stay in suspension well enough to be used for other than testing. It also did not print as smoothly as it should have. So, I think more is needed than just putting water color pigments into a good base and filtering it to eliminate the large particles. Paul www.PaulRoark.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-19 by pr_roark
> Have you tried Sinopia or Kremer pigments ? I only tried Daniel Smith's. > Were the watercolor pigments dry > or already mixed with gum arabic ? They were in the tubes with a medium that I'm quite sure included gum arabic. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2008-03-19 by Brian Corll
You might want to try the other brands like I mentioned. Cheaper than Daniel Smith too. When it comes to art supplies, Daniel Smith is overpriced, IMHO. Sinopia pigments are made in China and shipped from SF. Kremer pigments are German and shipped from New York. -------------------------------- Brian Corll http://www.briancorll.com
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:39 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: ASTM Pigment Names and Numbers > Have you tried Sinopia or Kremer pigments ? I only tried Daniel Smith's. > Were the watercolor pigments dry > or already mixed with gum arabic ? They were in the tubes with a medium that I'm quite sure included gum arabic. Paul www.PaulRoark.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]