Digital BW, The Print

Paul Banks is going to market a B&W system in Europe that has Eboni-6 
in the color spots of an Epson R1800, with the 3-MK settup in the 
remaining positions.  I made some sample prints using the 1800, Eboni-
6, the Epson driver, and QTR-made ICCs that Paul also has there.  He's 
at Halle 4.1 booth E31. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

So, does that mean those five positions have different dilutions of
Eboni ink?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
> Paul Banks is going to market a B&W system in Europe that has Eboni-6 
> in the color spots of an Epson R1800, with the 3-MK settup in the 
> remaining positions.  I made some sample prints using the 1800, Eboni-
> 6, the Epson driver, and QTR-made ICCs that Paul also has there.  He's 
> at Halle 4.1 booth E31. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

> So, does that mean those five positions have different dilutions of
> Eboni ink?

The Eboni-1800 setup uses the same Eboni-6 dilutions, but they are in 
different positions, since the 1800 has CMY with Red and Blue rather 
than the usual hextone arrangement.  I was skeptical that the Epson 
driver would lend itself to B&W, but it turns out there is a rational 
ink order that works well.  By having the dilutions track the color 
wheel, RGB image adjustment curves (that are embedded in ICCs) can be 
written to sequentially start the inks.  I use these with the hextone 
versions of Eboni-6 also.  They give the advantages of partitioning 
with very large overlaps, and being in ICCs, they result in a "color 
managed" workflow, which I think has significant advantages. 

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf for a description 
of the inkset in general.  I expect MIS will be the source for this in 
the U.S. 

The "Black Art Eboni" version of the PDF for Image Alchemy (which is 
only interested in non-US marketing) does not go into the rationale for 
the ink order.  It's at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Black-Art-
Eboni-1800.pdf

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com  

> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
> <pr_roark@> wrote:
> >
> > Paul Banks is going to market a B&W system in Europe that has Eboni-
6 
> > in the color spots of an Epson R1800, with the 3-MK settup in the 
> > remaining positions.  I made some sample prints using the 1800, 
Eboni-
> > 6, the Epson driver, and QTR-made ICCs that Paul also has there.  
He's 

> > at Halle 4.1 booth E31. 
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>

Paul,

Any chance PKN would work in the 1400 for glossy b.o. printing?

I have a need for some glossy commercial prints. I currently print them 
on the C-86 w/EZ inks, but I'm looking to get rid of a couple of 
printers. 

I have the 1400, C-86, R-800 and a 4800. Since the 1400 prints b.o. on 
matte so nicely, I'd like to get away from the C-86.

The R-800 I may convert to an aftermarket color set-up.

Thanks again,
Scott

> Any chance PKN would work in the 1400 for glossy b.o. printing?

With QTR with a single PK you could get a warm print that might be 
OK. 

It probably depends on the printer and your tolerance of artifacts.

With UT14 I have both a PKN and PK in the system in the C & M spots.  
That makes for a good, ICC, color managed Epson driver workflow.  For 
gloss optimization, Y is Glop.  It too can be controlled (blue curve) 
and in the ICCs.   With both of these PKs, dilute inks for smoothness 
and the glop for reflective artifacts, the UT14 platform is the way 
I'd do glossy B&W (which I try to avoid, frankly).

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf for more on UT14 if 
that is of interest.

If you were trying to keep the 1400 with other inks in the color 
positions, you could mix these UT14 PKs to get the single tone you 
prefer.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks, Paul. Am I correct in assuming this PDF:

> See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf for a description 
> of the inkset in general.

is an update, or expansion, of one dated 9-8-08 titled "Eboni-6 &
Epson R-1800"?

And Image Alchemy is Paul Banks' organization, right?

Regards,

Paul

> Am I correct in assuming this PDF:
> 
> > See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf 
> > for a description of the inkset in general.
> 
> is an update, or expansion, of one dated 9-8-08 titled "Eboni-6 &
> Epson R-1800"?

Yes, although I don't keep the old copies to compare to.

> And Image Alchemy is Paul Banks' organization, right?

Yes.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Dear Paul

This is going to get confusing with all these postings from people all with the name Paul.

Yes Paul, Image Alchemy Ltd is my Company and we have been exhibiting again at Photokina, showing our range of ink systems and the MIS Eboni 6 inks.  We will be exhibiting at FOCUS at the NEC in Birmingham UK and PMA in Las Vegas.

Kind regards,
Paul
Image Alchemy Ltd
www.image-alchemy.com
www.image-alchemy.de

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Whiting <paulmwhiting@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 28 September, 2008 14:34:11
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: 1800 Eboni at Photokina


Thanks, Paul. Am I correct in assuming this PDF:

> See http://www.paulroar k.com/BW- Info/Eboni- 1800.pdf for a description 
> of the inkset in general.

is an update, or expansion, of one dated 9-8-08 titled "Eboni-6 &
Epson R-1800"?

And Image Alchemy is Paul Banks' organization, right?

Regards,

Paul

    


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Paul B.,

It certainly is! Adding to that confusion is mine... it's been hard
for me to sort out these varying setups for black and white printing.
One thing I'm still not quite sure of.. how does what you are showing
at Photokina differ from what Paul (R!) discusses in his Eboni-6 setup
for the 1800? Aren't you both using 3 100% Eboni black cartridges in
the two black plus the glop positions, and various dilutions of Eboni
in the five color positions? Perhaps he will join in too... let's get
all three Pauls in on this!

Cheers,

Paul (W)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Banks
<failedthespian@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Paul
> 
> This is going to get confusing with all these postings from people
all with the name Paul.
> 
> Yes Paul, Image Alchemy Ltd is my Company and we have been
exhibiting again at Photokina, showing our range of ink systems and
the MIS Eboni 6 inks.  We will be exhibiting at FOCUS at the NEC in
Birmingham UK and PMA in Las Vegas.

> 
> Kind regards,
> Paul
> Image Alchemy Ltd
> www.image-alchemy.com
> www.image-alchemy.de

> > > This is going to get confusing with all these ...
> > > postings from people  with the name Paul.

"PR" here.  The Yahoo address starts with that, for example.

> ... how does what you are showing
> at Photokina differ from what Paul (R!) discusses in 
> his Eboni-6 setup for the 1800?

Paul B. is in Europe and at Photokina.  I think it helps preserve an 
independent, dedicated B&W market.

> Aren't you both using 3 100% Eboni black cartridges in
> the two black plus the glop positions, and various 
> dilutions of Eboni in the five color positions? 

Yes, it's the 3-MK plus Eboni-6 in a unique position set that allows 
the Epson driver to give us a high bit depth, color managed workflow.


www.PaulRoark.com

I almost said that in my previous post... that perhaps it was a
question of marketing and distribution. Thanks for confirming that!

Paul W.

> Paul B. is in Europe and at Photokina.  I think it helps preserve an 
> independent, dedicated B&W market.

Hello Paul R.

Maybe this is a very beginner question but I was under the impression
that the Epson driver would convert 16bit images to 8 bit prior to
printing, the same way QTR would do with a 16bit TIFF?

This is confusing... :)

Thanks,


Denis

> Yes, it's the 3-MK plus Eboni-6 in a unique position set that allows 
> the Epson driver to give us a high bit depth, color managed workflow.
> 
> 
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

> ... I was under the impression that the Epson driver 
> would convert 16bit images to 8 bit prior to
> printing, the same way QTR would do with a 16bit TIFF?
...

My understanding is that the Adobe color management engine that is 
what loads the ICCs and does the math is a high bit depth system.  A 
16 bit grayscale file enters the system, and a 24 bit RGB file exits 
the system to the Epson driver, if Create ICC-RGB was used to make 
the ICC.

The separation curves I use inside the ICCs serve more than just the 
functions of making the prints smoother and more neutral.  Separating 
the channels breaks up the lock-step staircase that would simply use 
the same 256 steps of the incoming file.  Each channel samples the 16 
bit incoming file differently.  By multi-sampling the incoming file, 
I think we are able to past more of the original information through 
the 8-bit/channel Epson driver.

Hope this makes some sense.

Paul (or whatever)
www.PaulRoark.com