Digital BW, The Print

Hello folks, it's been a while since I've posted on here.

I'm a b&w fine art photographer looking for a new matte paper to use
as an alternative to Epson Velvet Fine Art.  I've been using Epson VFA
almost exclusivity to make my own prints on my 3800.  It's a excellent
paper with good dmax but its textured surface is appropriate for some
images, but not all images.

A friend of mine in the U.K. recommended I try Somerset Enhanced
Velvet. He suggested that it was essentially the same paper but with
less texture and that the paper is manufactured exclusively for Epson
by St. Cuthberts Mill. So I purchased a package of Somerset EV by
Legion but was disappointed with the results.

After a few test prints I discovered the Somerset blacks are not as
deep as VFA blacks.  Somerset is a warmer and creamier colour paper
and  when I printed the same image on both papers and placed side
by side the Somerset Velvet dmax paled in comparison to Epson VFA.

Can someone recommend another matte paper more comparable to Epson
VFA. I would appreciated hearing your suggestions and ideas.

VFA has the best dmax of a matte paper with K3 inks.
So any other paper is going to be a compromise in terms of DMax.

I am also I big fan of VFA.
But when I want less texture I use either Photo Rag or Epson Ultrasmooth
depending on the paper tint I am looking for.

Mike

2008/10/26 SteveZ <blizzie12@...>

>   Hello folks, it's been a while since I've posted on here.
>
> I'm a b&w fine art photographer looking for a new matte paper to use
> as an alternative to Epson Velvet Fine Art. I've been using Epson VFA
> almost exclusivity to make my own prints on my 3800. It's a excellent
> paper with good dmax but its textured surface is appropriate for some
> images, but not all images.
>
> A friend of mine in the U.K. recommended I try Somerset Enhanced
> Velvet. He suggested that it was essentially the same paper but with
> less texture and that the paper is manufactured exclusively for Epson
> by St. Cuthberts Mill. So I purchased a package of Somerset EV by
> Legion but was disappointed with the results.
>
> After a few test prints I discovered the Somerset blacks are not as
> deep as VFA blacks. Somerset is a warmer and creamier colour paper
> and when I printed the same image on both papers and placed side
> by side the Somerset Velvet dmax paled in comparison to Epson VFA.
>
> Can someone recommend another matte paper more comparable to Epson
> VFA. I would appreciated hearing your suggestions and ideas.
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Michaeil. You'd think after all these years, someone would
make a matte paper with dmax to rival VFA. Which "PhotoRag" would you
suggest?


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Michael King"
<drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> VFA has the best dmax of a matte paper with K3 inks.
> So any other paper is going to be a compromise in terms of DMax.
> 
> I am also I big fan of VFA.
> But when I want less texture I use either Photo Rag or Epson Ultrasmooth
> depending on the paper tint I am looking for.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 2008/10/26 SteveZ <blizzie12@...>
> 
> >   Hello folks, it's been a while since I've posted on here.
> >
> > I'm a b&w fine art photographer looking for a new matte paper to use
> > as an alternative to Epson Velvet Fine Art. I've been using Epson VFA
> > almost exclusivity to make my own prints on my 3800. It's a excellent
> > paper with good dmax but its textured surface is appropriate for some
> > images, but not all images.
> >
> > A friend of mine in the U.K. recommended I try Somerset Enhanced
> > Velvet. He suggested that it was essentially the same paper but with
> > less texture and that the paper is manufactured exclusively for Epson
> > by St. Cuthberts Mill. So I purchased a package of Somerset EV by
> > Legion but was disappointed with the results.
> >
> > After a few test prints I discovered the Somerset blacks are not as
> > deep as VFA blacks. Somerset is a warmer and creamier colour paper
> > and when I printed the same image on both papers and placed side
> > by side the Somerset Velvet dmax paled in comparison to Epson VFA.
> >
> > Can someone recommend another matte paper more comparable to Epson
> > VFA. I would appreciated hearing your suggestions and ideas.
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi,
you might want to try Entrada Natural.

Richard

--
www.richardsmallfield.com 

   "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desparation."
   --Henry David Thorueau


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Steve,

>I'm a b&w fine art photographer looking for a new matte paper to use
>as an alternative to Epson Velvet Fine Art.  I've been using Epson 
>VFA almost exclusivity to make my own prints on my 3800.  It's a 
>excellent paper with good dmax but its textured surface is 
>appropriate for some images, but not all images....
>...the Somerset Velvet dmax paled in comparison to Epson VFA.
>Can someone recommend another matte paper more comparable to Epson
>VFA. I would appreciated hearing your suggestions and ideas.

I've tested lots of matte papers (see article #5 at link below) and
with K3 inks none had better dmax than VFA (HPR has better with
Eboni-based inks).  I haven't tested all papers so it's theoretically
possible there's one out there with better dmax, but I think we'd have
heard of it by now so unless it's brand new it probably doesn't exist.

I use a 2400 with K3 and VFA is also my #1 choice.  My #2 choice is
Innova's STA (Soft Texture Art), a slightly warmer paper color, the
best non OBA paper I've found, really beautiful stuff with K3 inks. 
It's dmax is not as good as VFA, but still better than many others. 
But it's also slightly textured.

As for the texture, it bothered me for a long time but I finally
realized that it's a non issue unless it's hand held for up close
viewing.  At any distance, and especially framed, it's not an issue. 
 I've sold and gifted many prints on it for the past several years,
most of them unframed, and no one has ever mentioned anything about
the texture.  In fact, the few times that anyone has ever mentioned
the paper at all was only with high praise in general and not
specifically about the texture.  I finally let go of my concern and am
living happily ever after.  The gorgeous glowing VFA prints are more
important.

HPR has good dmax, but while it's great with Eboni-based inks I've
found it isn't as "friendly" with K3 for some reason.  I still have
some in stock but have never been thrilled with the results.  I've
pretty much settled in on VFA and STA for everything these days.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

Hi Clayton, thanks for the feedback. Yes, I'm familiar with your
article # 5. I often refer to it. For most prints I make myself on my
3800, VFA is my paper of choice. The problem occurs when I have to
outsource printing, I'm finding that Somerset Enhanced Velvet is the
stock paper carried by most digital printing firms. As it turns out, I
have a project coming up where the client wants 7 - 24" x 30" printed
pieces, I've been calling around various shops and, invariably,
Somerset is what I'll get unless of course I buy the paper myself
which makes it cost prohibitive. Just out of curiosity, have you ever
tested Somerset EV for dmax? If you or anybody else reading this
thread has, I'd be interested in knowing what it comes in at. My guess
would be below 1.60.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Steve,
> 
> >I'm a b&w fine art photographer looking for a new matte paper to use
> >as an alternative to Epson Velvet Fine Art.  I've been using Epson 
> >VFA almost exclusivity to make my own prints on my 3800.  It's a 
> >excellent paper with good dmax but its textured surface is 
> >appropriate for some images, but not all images....
> >...the Somerset Velvet dmax paled in comparison to Epson VFA.
> >Can someone recommend another matte paper more comparable to Epson
> >VFA. I would appreciated hearing your suggestions and ideas.
> 
> I've tested lots of matte papers (see article #5 at link below) and
> with K3 inks none had better dmax than VFA (HPR has better with
> Eboni-based inks).  I haven't tested all papers so it's theoretically
> possible there's one out there with better dmax, but I think we'd have
> heard of it by now so unless it's brand new it probably doesn't exist.
> 
> I use a 2400 with K3 and VFA is also my #1 choice.  My #2 choice is
> Innova's STA (Soft Texture Art), a slightly warmer paper color, the
> best non OBA paper I've found, really beautiful stuff with K3 inks. 
> It's dmax is not as good as VFA, but still better than many others. 
> But it's also slightly textured.
> 
> As for the texture, it bothered me for a long time but I finally
> realized that it's a non issue unless it's hand held for up close
> viewing.  At any distance, and especially framed, it's not an issue. 
>  I've sold and gifted many prints on it for the past several years,
> most of them unframed, and no one has ever mentioned anything about
> the texture.  In fact, the few times that anyone has ever mentioned
> the paper at all was only with high praise in general and not
> specifically about the texture.  I finally let go of my concern and am
> living happily ever after.  The gorgeous glowing VFA prints are more
> important.
> 
> HPR has good dmax, but while it's great with Eboni-based inks I've
> found it isn't as "friendly" with K3 for some reason.  I still have
> some in stock but have never been thrilled with the results.  I've
> pretty much settled in on VFA and STA for everything these days.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm
>

>... Just out of curiosity, have you ever
> tested Somerset EV for dmax? If you or anybody else reading this
> thread has, I'd be interested in knowing what it comes in at. 
> My guess would be below 1.60.
> 

Somerset dmax on the 1800 with the 3MK process shows a Lab L = 19.06 
(density 1.56).  This would be Eboni with 3 jets and QTR.

For Eboni and the 1800 you can always just pull up the QTR profile and 
look at the linearization values.  (I read mine after a brief hit with 
a hair drier, so they'll probably go up very slightly over night.)  At 
any rate, QTR is an easy way to get dmax information.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com