Digital BW, The Print

Hi.
I'm using the r1800 3pkn +glop approach with Ilford GFS.
I'm struggling getting prints, containing mainly dark tones, to look
good. There is a difference from what I see on screen to what I get on
the print which seems all but impossible to bridge by creating an
adjustment curve in PS.
Everything besides my many dark prints look excellent, but the darker
areas look often look almost posterized and unappealing. Also, with
different lighting the dark areas have dramatically different appearances.

So, is what I am experiencing something which those of you using 3-pkn
is familiar with? Are there ways to solve this? Is there a reason to
change paper perhaps?

thanks for any help

sincerely,
Espen

Sound like something that's simple with 1900 and OEM ink has been made
complex.

Posterizing has nothing to do with paper or ink, it has to do with ink
loading (a control in QTR) or faulty use of software, such as your
Photoshop.

Matching screen is not necessarily a worthwhile goal, it may be a
convenience and may save paper (if one doesn't want to make test
prints) but is certainly not necessary for good printing...

You didn't mention Quadtone. If you're not using it, save your file as
a TIFF, download a test version of Quadtone (QTR), and check that out.
It's easier than printing directly from Photoshop.
  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "espen.aasheim"
<princemild@...> wrote:
>
> Hi.
> I'm using the r1800 3pkn +glop approach with Ilford GFS.
> I'm struggling getting prints, containing mainly dark tones, to look
> good. There is a difference from what I see on screen to what I get on
> the print which seems all but impossible to bridge by creating an
> adjustment curve in PS.
> Everything besides my many dark prints look excellent, but the darker
> areas look often look almost posterized and unappealing. Also, with
> different lighting the dark areas have dramatically different
appearances.

> 
> So, is what I am experiencing something which those of you using 3-pkn
> is familiar with? Are there ways to solve this? Is there a reason to
> change paper perhaps?
> 
> thanks for any help
> 
> sincerely,
> Espen
>

"espen.aasheim" <princemild@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I'm using the r1800 3pkn +glop approach with Ilford GFS.
> I'm struggling getting prints, containing mainly dark tones, 
> to look good. There is a difference from what I see on screen 
> to what I get on the print which seems all but impossible to 
> bridge by creating an adjustment curve in PS.

I assume you're using QTR.  People use various methods to match the 
print to the monitor.  In QTR there are ICCs that can be used in soft 
proofing or to convert to.  I prefer to edit in Gray Gamma 2.2, so I 
print using a conversion curve first.  The one I use is at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/GG22-QTR-curve.zip 

You may, however, have other problems.

>  the darker areas look often look almost posterized 

I have not made profiles for glossy papers, since the 3MK setup is 
for matte paper only and Eboni.  You may need to not only find the 
best setting for dmax but also re-work the basic curves that were 
made for the matte papers and 3 Eboni carts.  The approach that is 
outlined in the Notes of the Dmax and Start profiles in the 1800-3MK 
QTR folder should be helpful in finding the best ink limit for the 
best dmax.  Those curves may also be good starting points, but you'll 
need to look very closely at whether they are posterizing in the deep 
shadows.  You can manually re-work those curves.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks for the replies John and Paul ..

Paul,
I should have added that I use qtr with Carl Schofield's 3pkn
profiles. I edit and print in gamma 2.2 16bit. I used to use the ps
curve you linked to, Paul, when I was printing 3mk, which was what I
did the last year or so. I'll try the curve on a test print tomorrow,
but I have tried similar ones with unsatisfying results.

My workflow is: edit in 16 bit gamma 2.2, flatten, resize, save tif
16bit with profile, open in qtr(2880dpi, unidirectional, curve1
3PKN-IGS-GL,) print.

I might be doing something wrong with qtr, do I have to use all the
files in Carl S.'s /R1800_3PKN.zip perhaps? So far I just added the
quad files to the qtr quadtones folder, and have not used the others.

I'll have to read up a bit more before manually adjusting curves all
by myself... but it seems like the most probable cause for these tonal
effects right now.


sincerely,
Espen


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

> 
> I assume you're using QTR.  People use various methods to match the 
> print to the monitor.  In QTR there are ICCs that can be used in soft 
> proofing or to convert to.  I prefer to edit in Gray Gamma 2.2, so I 
> print using a conversion curve first.  The one I use is at 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/GG22-QTR-curve.zip 
> 
> You may, however, have other problems.
> 
> >  the darker areas look often look almost posterized 
> 
> I have not made profiles for glossy papers, since the 3MK setup is 
> for matte paper only and Eboni.  You may need to not only find the 
> best setting for dmax but also re-work the basic curves that were 
> made for the matte papers and 3 Eboni carts.  The approach that is 
> outlined in the Notes of the Dmax and Start profiles in the 1800-3MK 
> QTR folder should be helpful in finding the best ink limit for the 
> best dmax.  Those curves may also be good starting points, but you'll 
> need to look very closely at whether they are posterizing in the deep 
> shadows.  You can manually re-work those curves.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>