Digital BW, The Print

Wow, pretty amazing group here, have been lurking the archives for a
few days waiting for my ink and carts to show up for an R280 that I'll
be setting up for B&W printing only.  This is an wonderful resource!

I have a question about ink curves in profiles for doing Paul's new
EB6-YK approach.  Specifically, Paul mentions he likes to use 3K's and
3Y's in this mode and I was planning on doing the same on my R280.  

What I wonder about is the ink curves for the 3K's and 3Y's.  I notice
in the 3MK profiles that there are separate custom ink curves for each
of the MKs that appear to stagger when the various inks start firing -
I presume to get the smoothest BO approach.  Should the same thing be
done in a EB6-YK approach?  Or does the inclusion of the Y ink make
this not necessary and instead should I just divide the ink limits by
3 and use the "standard" K and Y curves created from a "standard"
calibration session with QTR?  

Anyone have a EB6-YK profile they are using I could see for reference?

Also, Paul mentioned he was 50/50 mixing a 3MK and YK profile as his
preferred QTR output.  Paul - what do you like about this over a 100%
YK approach?

Thanks in advance for any help, and as soon as I get my supplies and
an acceptable print out I'll post whatever worked out (hopefully) for
my setup.

Ken

Ken,


>... for an R280 that I'll be setting up for B&W printing only.  

> I have a question about ink curves in profiles for doing Paul's 
> new EB6-YK approach.  Specifically, Paul mentions he likes to 
> use 3K's and 3Y's in this mode and I was planning on doing the 
> same on my R280.  
 
> What I wonder about is the ink curves for the 3K's and 3Y's.
> I notice in the 3MK profiles that there are separate custom 
> ink curves for each of the MKs that appear to stagger when 
> the various inks start firing -
> I presume to get the smoothest BO approach. 

Yes, particularly on the 1800, which banded too much to make a smooth 
single black only print.  My 1400 does not band significantly, so 
it's not as important there. 


> Should the same thing be done in a EB6-YK approach? 

I was working on that, but it makes generating profiles much harder. 
If you can use QTR's semi-automatic partitioning, it's just simpler.  
Since I use the 3YK profile with a staggered start 3-MK profile, I 
get the staggered starts anyway.

> Or does the inclusion of the Y ink make this not necessary 

That is also a factor.

> ... should I just divide the ink limits by
> 3 and use the "standard" K and Y curves created from a "standard"
> calibration session with QTR? 

You'll notice some of my profiles are 3YK (only one K).  

> Anyone have a EB6-YK profile they are using I could see
> for reference?

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-YK.zip 

>... 50/50 mixing a 3MK and YK profile as his
> preferred QTR output.  Paul - what do you like about this 
> over a 100% YK approach?

It has a more neutral tone; it accomplishes the 3-MK staggered MK 
starting; there is more continuity of tone and texture; and I 
actually think an extremely fine random grain can have a positive 
affect on an image.  Among other things, I'd rather have people 
barely able to see a random noise than some digital artifacts.  Also, 
all darkroom printers probably experienced the illusion of sharpness 
a very sharp grain could lend to an image that was reallly not that 
sharp.

Have fun.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

Thanks so much for the profiles and the info.  I had to wait a few
days before trying this out as two of my el-cheapo E-bay refillable
carts had bad chips.  Fortunately the seller was top notch and
replaced them quickly.

After much fussing with calibration and linearizing I just had my
first letter size print roll off my R280 using a 50/50 curve blend of
a 3MK and a 3Y3K on Epson UPP (EEM).  Wow, WOW, WOW!!!!!  This is
better than my darkroom work of many years past (not that I was all
that great at it).  I'm going to be having a lot of fun and I see
significant risk of a 1400 in my future.  Can't wait to try my other
papers.

I might bug you with a few questions if you can tolerate them:

- I saw some of your profiles were 3Y1K as you pointed out in your
post.  I decided to go with 3Y3K to mix with my 3MK assuming my K/C/M
carts would be more likely to run out together this way.  Thinking
about how the curves blend my neophyte mind couldn't think up an
advantage to using 3Y1K instead.  Do you have a reason you like 3Y1K
instead 3Y3K?

- First shot at my 3Y3K profile I did the standard ink calibration
procedure and came up with a Y density of 1.8 (K at 100) which seemed
to jive with what I thought was the Y dilution of 2%.  I did a 21 step
and it seemed the K was cutting in a bit early (could see dot pattern
more easily than I expected).  Then I noticed in your "start" profile
and other YK profiles you have a Y density of 5 set, so I did this and
think I got better results.  It is clear from my calibration print
that the Y density isn't as high as 5.  Did you up the density on
purpose to postpone the entry of the K inks?  Any error in the ramp as
a result of the "erroneous" Y density would then be corrected in
linearization?

- I notice the 3Y3K profile is a bit warmer than the 3MK profile
particularly in the brighter mid-tones.  What causes the shift, I
thought the Y ink was just diluted K ink?  Or is it the agents used to
dilute it that give the tone?  Do you think that tone will shift with
time if it isn't a characteristic of the carbon?

Again, thanks for the info.  Your website has a truly staggering
amount of great information on it!  And feel free to ignore most of
the post if all my questions are getting annoying.

Ken

Hi Ken,

>...I just had my
> first letter size print roll off my R280 using a 50/50 
> curve blend of a 3MK and a 3Y3K on Epson UPP (EEM).  
> Wow, WOW, WOW!!!!!  This is better than my darkroom work ...

I'm glad that inkset approach is working for you. I think it makes a 
nice, easy outfit to live with.  I like the idea of only 2 inks to 
mess with.  A CIS with only 2 bottles also works just fine.  (But 
agitate those bottles regularly.)

...
> - I saw some of your profiles were 3Y1K ...

Yes, it's real easy to make a 3Y1K profile.  Do a 1YIK profile and 
split Y into 3 by copying the curve to the other 2 Ys and cutting the 
ink limit for each to 1/3.  

When I use these with the 3MK, that profile utilizes the other Eboni 
slots.  So, I don't worry too much about that fact that I've 
overweighted the K position Eboni.  In fact, it may help, because 
it's easier to get a very steep K final curve either with the K boost 
or just using Roy's built in profiling system -- which I use whenever 
possible.  In short, making things easy is the theme here.

There is also a smoothness issue, discussed below.


> I decided to go with 3Y3K to mix with my 3MK assuming my K/C/M
> carts would be more likely to run out together this way. 

Yes, evenness of useage is a relevant factor and favors the 3Y3K 
approach. 

> Thinking
> about how the curves blend my neophyte mind couldn't think up an
> advantage to using 3Y1K instead.  
> Do you have a reason you like 3Y1K instead 3Y3K?

In addition to laziness, if all 3 Ks start at the same time, it's 
going to show more.  So, if you use 3K, it's best with a custom, hand-
made curve that spreads the starting points.  The 3MK blended with 
3Y1K does a good job of spreading the Eboni starting points.

> - First shot at my 3Y3K profile I did the standard ink 
> calibration procedure and came up with a Y density of 
> 1.8 (K at 100) which seemed to jive with what I thought 
> was the Y dilution of 2%.  I did a 21 step
> and it seemed the K was cutting in a bit early 
> (could see dot pattern more easily than I expected).

That might be accentuated if all 3 Ks start at the same point.

>  Then I noticed in your "start" profile
> and other YK profiles you have a Y density of 5 set, 
> so I did this and think I got better results.  It is clear 
> from my calibration print
> that the Y density isn't as high as 5.  Did you up the 
> density on purpose to postpone the entry of the K inks?  

I played around with several densities there.  I forget what all the 
factors were for the 5; it probably just worked.

> Any error in the ramp as a result of the "erroneous" Y 
> density would then be corrected in linearization?

Well, if the "error" is not too bad the linearization will correct it.

When I to test strips with different parameters fed into the program 
I print graphs of the un-linearized 21-step Lab L (density) ramps. I 
use Excel "charts" a lot.  I like to see a smooth ramp before the 
linearization step.  That is a significant factor in selecting the 
inputs.

> - I notice the 3Y3K profile is a bit warmer than the 3MK profile
> particularly in the brighter mid-tones.  What causes the shift, I
> thought the Y ink was just diluted K ink? 

Dilute carbon is simply warmer than 100% carbon.  See the comparison 
at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-3Y-3MK-PA325.jpg

The warmth seems to come from the light being "filtered" by the edges 
of the droplet or particle.  A solid mass of 100% carbon minimizes 
this. 

> Or is it the agents used to dilute it that give the tone?

There seems to be an element of this.  All of the pigments are coated 
with something, even if just a non-ionic surfactant.  This "stuff" 
can have a warm tone.  (Some of it may also burn off early and 
actually cause a slight cool shift in tone.)

>  Do you think that tone will shift with
> time if it isn't a characteristic of the carbon?

I don't expect a significant shift in tone.  Truth is, this carbon is 
so lightfast, I've never tested any of it beyond what would be the 
equivalent of about 13 Wilhelm years.  It just takes too long.  If 
the pigments are "rock solid" at that point (or actually earlier in 
most cases), I go with the data that the professional testers have 
developed to estimate what will happen, and I know of no test that 
shows us what very long term Eboni or other carbon tone shifts might 
look like.  

My tests indicate that the paper tone shift of brightened paper is 
going to be the dominant factor for a very long time.  (Even un-
brightened paper shifts tones slightly -- probably bleaching.)  I 
think it's safe to assume the print tones you see will be very 
stable, with OBA fade (warming) being by far the dominant factor.  
For long term neutrality, that's why I put 3MK on Premier Art Smooth 
(no OBAs) 325 at the top of my list.

Good luck with the 3Y3K approach.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hello,

I was looking on the MIS web site for Eboni 6 ink but it is not longer
listed. Has anyone heard that it was discontinued or am I just not looking
in the right place?

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 15 Jan 2009, at 10:11 PM, Gary Wagner wrote:

> I was looking on the MIS web site for Eboni 6 ink but it is not longer
> listed. Has anyone heard that it was discontinued or am I just not  
> looking
> in the right place?

That does seem very strange.  I can't find it either, as linked to  
from the usual places.

However, I did finally come across a link on the New Products page  
(ironically):

	http://www.inksupply.com/eb6.cfm

However, I have no idea whether MIS is actually selling it or not.   
Their website has never been very navigable...

--John

John,

When I click on that the link to order it says" Item not Available".

 

Paul,

Has Eboni  6 been discontinued? I am using it in my 1400. What would you
suggest as a substitute? I really like the smoothness of the tones
especially in the highlights. 

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Labovitz
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:31 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Eboni 6 no longer available?

 

On 15 Jan 2009, at 10:11 PM, Gary Wagner wrote:

> I was looking on the MIS web site for Eboni 6 ink but it is not longer
> listed. Has anyone heard that it was discontinued or am I just not 
> looking
> in the right place?

That does seem very strange. I can't find it either, as linked to 
from the usual places.

However, I did finally come across a link on the New Products page 
(ironically):

http://www.inksupply.com/eb6.cfm

However, I have no idea whether MIS is actually selling it or not. 
Their website has never been very navigable...

--John

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why don't you try calling or emailing MIS's support department and check to see.  I have 
never had a problem calling them and they are very helpful.
Randy


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> 
wrote:

>
> John,
> 
> When I click on that the link to order it says" Item not Available".
> 
>  
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Has Eboni  6 been discontinued? I am using it in my 1400. What would you
> suggest as a substitute? I really like the smoothness of the tones
> especially in the highlights. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gary Wagner
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
> Labovitz
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:31 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Eboni 6 no longer available?
> 
>  
> 
> On 15 Jan 2009, at 10:11 PM, Gary Wagner wrote:
> 
> > I was looking on the MIS web site for Eboni 6 ink but it is not longer
> > listed. Has anyone heard that it was discontinued or am I just not 
> > looking
> > in the right place?
> 
> That does seem very strange. I can't find it either, as linked to 
> from the usual places.
> 
> However, I did finally come across a link on the New Products page 
> (ironically):
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/eb6.cfm
> 
> However, I have no idea whether MIS is actually selling it or not. 
> Their website has never been very navigable...
> 
> --John
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> Has Eboni  6 been discontinued? I am using it in my 1400. ...

As far as I know, nothing has changed with respect to Eboni-6.  The 
link I have in my PDF -- http://www.inksupply.com/eb6.cfm -- seems to 
still be working.  (My write-up of Eboni-6 is at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf )

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I spoke with MIS and they said that Eboni6 has been discontinued. There 
will be a news posting on the site in the next day or two. 
Gary Wagner

Paul,
Can you speak with them and see if there are any options on returning 
this product to the market or if there is a comperable substitution 
available? 
Thanks



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" 
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
> 
> > Has Eboni  6 been discontinued? I am using it in my 1400. ...
> 
> As far as I know, nothing has changed with respect to Eboni-6.  The 
> link I have in my PDF -- http://www.inksupply.com/eb6.cfm -- seems to 
> still be working.  (My write-up of Eboni-6 is at 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf )
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

On 16 Jan 2009, at 11:03 AM, garyphoto6 wrote:

> I spoke with MIS and they said that Eboni6 has been discontinued.  
> There
> will be a news posting on the site in the next day or two.

Wow, that's a bit of a shock.  Although I understand there are often  
reformulations and other reasons to discontinue a product, I find  
myself a bit anxious about this situation.  But until we hear more  
news, I won't try to second-guess MIS.

I'm realizing that it makes me concerned about depending on a single  
supplier for an essential material.  After 10 years of inkjet printing  
(mostly with quadtones), I've found myself quite happy with the  
Eboni-6 system, for quality, value, and (relative) simplicity.   
However, I was considering moving to Paul's Carbon-6 workflow, in part  
because of the craft aspect of making my own dilutions, but also to  
separate myself a bit further from the need into a pre-packaged  
system.  Of course, Carbon-6 still depends on buying a base black ink  
for the dilution.  (I presume that unlike traditional printmaking,  
it's not easy to make one's own ink.)

As Gary is also wondering, I would be very interested in hearing of  
alternate sources for a mixable, bulk pigment, base-black ink that is  
similar in structure and quality to Eboni-6.  I don't understand the  
details of the ink market, in terms of who makes ink for whom, but any  
light that can be shed would be very much appreciated, at least by me.

Best,
--John

Paul,

Did you find out anything about the discontinued Eboni 6? I am about to
purchase an Epson 7600 and was going to use Eboni 6 in it. Is there a
substitute you would recommend? Did you find out if this ink will be coming
back? What would you recommend I now use in my 7600? I really like the
smoothness of tones in Eboni 6 inks. I have tired UT14 and it did not look
in tonal gradation but the color was very nice.

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Labovitz
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:42 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Eboni 6 no longer available?

 

On 16 Jan 2009, at 11:03 AM, garyphoto6 wrote:

> I spoke with MIS and they said that Eboni6 has been discontinued. 
> There
> will be a news posting on the site in the next day or two.

Wow, that's a bit of a shock. Although I understand there are often 
reformulations and other reasons to discontinue a product, I find 
myself a bit anxious about this situation. But until we hear more 
news, I won't try to second-guess MIS.

I'm realizing that it makes me concerned about depending on a single 
supplier for an essential material. After 10 years of inkjet printing 
(mostly with quadtones), I've found myself quite happy with the 
Eboni-6 system, for quality, value, and (relative) simplicity. 
However, I was considering moving to Paul's Carbon-6 workflow, in part 
because of the craft aspect of making my own dilutions, but also to 
separate myself a bit further from the need into a pre-packaged 
system. Of course, Carbon-6 still depends on buying a base black ink 
for the dilution. (I presume that unlike traditional printmaking, 
it's not easy to make one's own ink.)

As Gary is also wondering, I would be very interested in hearing of 
alternate sources for a mixable, bulk pigment, base-black ink that is 
similar in structure and quality to Eboni-6. I don't understand the 
details of the ink market, in terms of who makes ink for whom, but any 
light that can be shed would be very much appreciated, at least by me.

Best,
--John

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> Did you find out anything about the discontinued Eboni 6?

No, I'll ask Zeiss what is going on.  There are some issues that I 
suspect they are concerned with, but I have not heard.

> I am about to purchase an Epson 7600 and was going to use 
> Eboni 6 in it. Is there a substitute you would recommend?

Part of the problem may be that Carbon-6 is cheaper.  At this point 
I'll just use C6 in my 7500 if MIS no longer supplies Eboni-6.  

The 1400 is the platform that might suffer.  The C6 wetting agent 
(Photo Flo) is not quite up to it.  I've used some Dow surfactants that 
work, but they are not available in small quantities.  I'll test that 
Edwall wetting agent in the 1400 when I get a chance.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

If, in fact, MIS discontinues E-6, might they only sell the base? Or
might they let us know what the base is so we can blend our own?

Thanks,

Denis 

> Part of the problem may be that Carbon-6 is cheaper.  At this point 
> I'll just use C6 in my 7500 if MIS no longer supplies Eboni-6.  
> 
> The 1400 is the platform that might suffer.  The C6 wetting agent 
> (Photo Flo) is not quite up to it.  I've used some Dow surfactants that 
> work, but they are not available in small quantities.  I'll test that 
> Edwall wetting agent in the 1400 when I get a chance.
> 
>

Paul can correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the E-6
"base" (100% Eboni) is available as the "MK" or "Matte Black" ink for
many of the MIS systems.  From the MIS website it appears ink for the
K channel for the various UT systems is 100% Eboni.

Ken

> If, in fact, MIS discontinues E-6, might they only sell the base? Or
> might they let us know what the base is so we can blend our own?

Paul,

What about the MIS ESC-BASE-4-UC?  They claim it can be used to dilute
inks and specifically say it can be used with Ultratone inks.  I guess
the question is does it have good enough surfactants for the 1400 or
is it something more akin to your C6 base?

I don't see any other ink in the other Ultratone sets that even gets
close to the 2% dilution of the EB-6 Y ink... So much for my all the
YK profiles I just did for my R280!

> The 1400 is the platform that might suffer.  The C6 wetting agent 
> (Photo Flo) is not quite up to it.  I've used some Dow surfactants that 
> work, but they are not available in small quantities.  I'll test that 
> Edwall wetting agent in the 1400 when I get a chance.

> If, in fact, MIS discontinues E-6, might they only sell the base?

I doubt MIS will sell the base. IF they've decided to pull the plug
on Eb6, I'd guess the base is part of the reason. That 1800 carts'
apparent reaction to the base is not encouraging. I also have at
least one 7500 Eb6 cart that is leaking. Does the base attack
rubber??

> Or might they let us know what the base is so we can blend our own?

I'm accelerating my work on the next C6 base -- which also is
aimed at the HP Vivera Z3100 PK, and Epson MK (as the warm
toner for matte systems). They both stay in suspension very well.
I'm convinced the HP is not 100% carbon, but at least it is supported
by good Wilhelm tests. So, realistically, our inputs are going to
broaden for those of us who are comfortable mixing our own.
Note that if one is using diluted HP PK, the price is reasonable.
The HP diluted with C6 base also prints on glossy paper.



>... my understanding is that the E-6 "base" (100% Eboni) is
> available as the "MK" or "Matte Black" ink for
> many of the MIS systems. From the MIS website it appears
> ink for the K channel for the various UT systems is 100% Eboni.

The problems I'm aware of are not with Eboni. I think it is
about the best MK there is. All of the inksets I have in mind
use Eboni, and my dream is of a 1.5 pl 24" printer that can
print good 100% Eboni, like the 3MK in the 1800 and 1400.

The *potential* problems that I'm speculating could cause
MIS to stop selling Eboni-6 all relate to the base we are using
to dilute Eboni and the ability to keep Eboni suspended in any
dilution base. In addition to the possible solvent action on
rubber mentioned above, we know the dilution base is not
compatible with some common inks. I can see this being
a product support problem if many people do not purge
the old inks from the printers first.

Dilute Eboni is also settling faster than the other inks we usually
use. In desktop units the carts get agitated so much it's not a
problem. For my 7500, I agitate the carts (can even do so while
they are in the printer). CIS units are easy
to agitate. So, the settling problem is only really going to be
a problem for large format and CIS users who do not agitate
their carts.


> What about the MIS ESC-BASE-4-UC? They claim it can
> be used to dilute inks and specifically say it can be used
> with Ultratone inks. ...

It is one of a number of bases I've tested with various inks,
including Eboni. It may be very compatible, but my tests
with Eboni looked rough (and with glossy pigments the
bronzing is terrible).

> I don't see any other ink in the other Ultratone sets that
> even gets close to the 2% dilution of the EB-6 Y ink...
> So much for my all the YK profiles I just did for my R280!

Hopefully there will be a solution. Maybe at that extreme
dilution the UC base will work OK. It's worth a try. For
that matter, at that dilution and if there are more several
2% inks firing, maybe even C6 base will work. I think we
are far from a "game over" position.

I certainly hope MIS and its supplier realize that an Eboni-6
type inkset is their best shot at competing for the high end
of B&W. On the other hand, maybe the high end is just
not large enough to bother with for them.

And, of course, those of us who mix our own may have
HP and other inputs that, when diluted, work very well
for very reasonable prices, and the pigments are fully
supported by Wilhelm tests. If we can't claim 100%
carbon or point to a Wilhelm, RIT, or other serious
fade test, how are our customers going to feel secure?
I, personally, am not comfortable selling "fine art" that
has weak color pigments in it. Note I said "weak" --
I don't think 100% carbon is necessarily the ultimate
pigment. It just has the advantages of history and
lots of credible support. If a company has a neutral
gray that has non-carbon components (and all the
large OEMs use such), and that pigment is very
well supported by credible third party fade testing,
I'm much more comfortable with it.

I've probably said way too much given the rumor status of this Eboni-
6 issue. I'll continue to make the best affordable mixes I can with
the available materials. The reality is that the bar is a lot higher
with the large OEMs having some serious competition out there.
Still, it gives me great pleasure to, for example, be able to put
dilute HP PK in a C88+ and have anyone be able to make state of the
art neutral B&W for pennies per page. Overall, the situation is
changing, but not getting worse. It's getting better, with just a
few detours along the way. I hope our traditional third party
suppliers have the will and ability to stay in the game.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> 
> The 1400 is the platform that might suffer.  The C6 wetting agent 
> (Photo Flo) is not quite up to it.  I've used some Dow surfactants that 
> work, but they are not available in small quantities.  I'll test that 
> Edwall wetting agent in the 1400 when I get a chance.
> 
> 

Would replacing some of the distilled water with (more) photo-flo
help? (I'm a 1400 user and would like to keep on with a similar
workflow...!)

"ebenostby" <efo@...> wrote:
>
> > 
> > The 1400 is the platform that might suffer.  The C6 wetting agent 
> > (Photo Flo) is not quite up to it.  I've used some Dow 
surfactants that 
> > work, but they are not available in small quantities.  I'll test 
that 
> > Edwall wetting agent in the 1400 when I get a chance.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Would replacing some of the distilled water with (more) photo-flo
> help? (I'm a 1400 user and would like to keep on with a similar
> workflow...!)
>

I doubt more Photo Flo would do the trick.  In testing on the 1800, 
C6 did not get smoother if more than 10% Photo Flo was added. 

When I have some time I'll try the Edwal wetting agent as just an 
additive to the C6 formula.  

So far, I have not even heard from MIS about their plans with respect 
to Eboni-6.  So, it's probably too early to be worrying about a 
substitute.  

On the other hand, it would be useful to find a base that worked well 
on 1.5 pl printers, and I suspect we will.  One limitation is that I 
want to keep it simple.  This afternoon, for example, it didn't take 
me very long at all to pour the 3 ingredients of the current C6 base 
together.  With a digital scales and some beakers, syringes are not 
even needed -- just pour the right amounts into a beaker and stir.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

Did you ever find out any more information Eboni 6 and if it really is
discontinued  permanently or not? Also is there any thoughts on a six ink
set up for the 1400 and  7600? I had been using Eboni with my 1400 and just
purchased a 7600 that I was going to use Eboni in it also.  

Thanks for your help.

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 9:19 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Eboni 6 no longer available?

 



> If, in fact, MIS discontinues E-6, might they only sell the base?



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> Did you ever find out any more information Eboni 6 and 
> if it really is discontinued  permanently or not? 

No.  It's still on the MIS web page, but I have heard nothing.

> Also is there any thoughts on a six ink
> set up for the 1400 and  7600?

I'm working on an alternatives, but not news at this point.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> The problems I'm aware of are not with Eboni. I think it is
> about the best MK there is. All of the inksets I have in mind
> use Eboni, and my dream is of a 1.5 pl 24" printer that can
> print good 100% Eboni, like the 3MK in the 1800 and 1400.

Paul,

Old thread here, sorry, just ran across it!

I thought I read in an earlier thread that you found a single cartridge of Eboni was all that was needed in the 1400... 

Paul

"Paul Whiting" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> I thought I read in an earlier thread that you found a 
> single cartridge of Eboni was all that was needed in the 1400... 

In my 1400 a single black only channel does very well.  I don't know if this is just my printer or if I'll continue to be so lucky.  All too often, what I find is microbanding if only a single channel is used.  It'd be terrific if Epson has it's manufacturing to the point where we can rely on one-channel, smooth prints.  I'm skeptical that my luck will hold.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com