Digital BW, The Print

-----Original Message-----
From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@...]
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 02:53
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow


I have developed a MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow 
for Windows PCs,Epson 1160 Printer & Driver on EAM.  This might be 
very useful for 1160 owners who want to try an RGB partitioned 
workflow with the FS inks as an alternative to the Woolf lumped 
grayscale workflow. The partitioned workflow takes full advantage of 
the light, medium, and dark gray and black inks while the lumped 
grayscale workflow combines the light, medium, and dark gray into one 
mixed gray. 

The workflow and curves for PhotoShop (.acv) and Picture Windows 
(.cc) are in ** Files> Inksets, reviews and techniques> MIS FS> 1160 
Partitioned Workflow ** of this forum.  The curves are draft and I 
will update them soon.

Note:  You must be a member of this forum to download files.

Enjoy.

Jeff Randall




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-----Original Message-----
From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@...]
Sent: martedì 12 febbraio 2002 23.24
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow


Alessandro:

I am glad the workflow worked so well for you!

Did you change any other curve values (other than Red 80% from 65 to 
67)?  Please let me know so I can test your changes with my printer.  
I have noticed that my printer "drifts" slightly from day to day.  
Also as you pointed out, there appear to be slight variations among 
printers.

Thanks.

Jeff Randall

Group:

The workflow and curves for PhotoShop (.acv) and curves for Picture 
Windows (.cc) are posted in __Files> Inksets, reviews and techniques> 
MIS FS> 1160 Partitioned Workflow__  of this forum.  

The curves are still draft and I will update them after I get more 
feedback.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Alessandro Pardi 
<alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> After a while,
>  
> I can happily report that I get great prints with this workflow, 
using a PC,
> an Epson 1160 with the Epson driver and EAM paper.
> I had to tweak the curves a bit, making the red (darkest gray) 
curve a bit
> steeper in the 80%-95% range, because the step-wedge print hadn't a 
very
> good separation in that area, but this may well be due to different 
printers
> samples. After that, my 1160 is able to brilliantly(1) print the 
Tyler's
> zees image, completely dotless, and with no apparent banding.
> I compared the step-wedge I printed with the Woolf's workflow, and 
there is
> a clear advantage with Randall's curves: no dots in the highlights 
(vs.
> visible, though absolutely acceptable, dots in the 5% with Woolf), 
no
> banding (vs. banding from 60% upwards), and even a deeper 100% 
black.
>  
> Please note that this report refers to the old FS inks: not the new
> reformulated inks, and not the FS neutral inks (so curves will 
probably need
> further tweaking for these sets).
> If anyone is interested, I can post the modified curves (or simply 
the
> values I changed: e.g.,  move 80% from 65 to 69).
>  
> Alessandro Pardi
>  
> (1) This means that I am able to see a Z in every square, although 
in some
> squares this is not so clear as in others.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@c...]
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 02:53
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad 
Workflow
> 
> 
> I have developed a MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow 
> for Windows PCs,Epson 1160 Printer & Driver on EAM.  This might be 
> very useful for 1160 owners who want to try an RGB partitioned 
> workflow with the FS inks as an alternative to the Woolf lumped 
> grayscale workflow. The partitioned workflow takes full advantage 
of 
> the light, medium, and dark gray and black inks while the lumped 
> grayscale workflow combines the light, medium, and dark gray into 
one 
> mixed gray. 
> 
> The workflow and curves for PhotoShop (.acv) and Picture Windows 
> (.cc) are in ** Files> Inksets, reviews and techniques> MIS FS> 
1160 
> Partitioned Workflow ** of this forum.  The curves are draft and I 
> will update them soon.
> 
> Note:  You must be a member of this forum to download files.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> Jeff Randall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> > 
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow


> Alessandro Pardi wrote:
> 
> > ...I first tried to modify the global RGB curve,
> >but that caused banding, whereas changing the Red
> >curve gave no banding
> 
> Jeff Randall wrote:
> 
> >Yes, the Red curve controls the Cyan position ink (which is the dark
> >gray in the FS and Piezo systems) so adjusting it is the best way
> >change the dark end.  You can't directly control the Black ink -- I
> >think the driver automatically turns it on when each RGB values is
> >below about 50%.  Paul Roark may want to step in to correct or add to
> >this.
> 
> I haven't been following all this thread, so my comments may not be
> responsive to the issues you were originally addressing.
> 
> >Using any combined RGB transfer function ... -- a meat axe ...
> 
> I agree with this.
> 
> 
> 
> A couple general thoughts I might add -- too radical slopes on curves
> sometimes adds artifacts.  The magenta position ink is sufficiently light
> that it might be run up into the highlights a little more, allowing the
> slopes to be decreased a bit.
> 
> The black ink is turned on by the driver looking at the combined R, G, B
> values.  The black ink is a potential source of dots as it starts to be
> turned on.  And, when I measure the roughness of test strips, in general,
> the worst areas are never the highlights, but the shadows.  The
> concentration on highlight dots is a bit misplaced, in my view.
> 
> When the blue (yellow-position, lightest ink) and green (magenta-position,
> next lightest ink) have both been run all the way down -- that is, turned on
> to 100% flow -- the red curve (cyan-position, dark gray) ink becomes the
> "switch" for the black.  If you look at the red curve of the PS_FS1160a
> curve, you see a reduction of slope of the curve at about 55% (115 input on
> the 256 scale).  That might be where the black ink starts to come on.
> 
> If there are any dots are roughness in the tests strips at that point (I
> don't have one in front of me) it might be because the black ink was turned
> on before the cyan ink was on full enough to hide the black dots.  What I
> have done on some curves is pull the lightest ink back from being on 100%.
> It is light enough that even a reverse slope can easily be overcome by the
> cyan ink.  If the lightest ink curve is raised enough, then the cyan ink can
> be more fully on and the lightest ink curve can be a "switch" for the black
> ink.  It might be that this approach can reduce roughness in the shadows as
> the black ink starts to be poured in.
> 
> Often in my VM curves all three curves are close to the bottom (full-on)
> position, but not totally on.  Then all three can be used to control the
> black.  The lightest gray will give the finer control than the cyan because
> a one-unit increase in the light ink doesn't add as much density as a
> one-unit increase in the cyan ink, the black ink, indirect increase being
> equal for both.
> 
> Also, if curves have waviness down in the shadows (and my curves do
> occasionally -- things I have to get back to as time permits), if you have 2
> or 3 curves that are not totally on and able to  adjust the black, you can
> stagger the control points and get finer control.  That is, we are limited
> to 15 points per curve.  If there is a  bump between, for example, the "85%"
> and "80%" points, keep the points of one curves on those points, but move
> the points of another curve to midpoints, for example, the "82%" position.
> 
> Overall, I'm not sure that having the lighter ink curves full on early is an
> advantage.  Their ability to add to the accuracy of control in the shadows
> might be an advantage.
> 
> I run into this problem with the "warm" vm curves.  Because I'm holding back
> the toner as much as possible, that curve becomes my sole control in the
> shadows.  The result is sometimes persistent humps in the ramp that are
> tough to control.  And, when I have them controlled on one printer, someone
> else with the same printer type might report a problem there just due to the
> normal production variations in these machines.  The more radical the curve
> slope is, the more these production differences seem to surface.
> 
> And so it goes.  None of these things is perfect, and the ability of the
> individual to adjust the curves to his/her own machine is a real advantage.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Jeff,
> 
> Do you -- or does anyone -- have an RGB workflow for the 3000 & PC for
> Piezo/FS inks?  If not, I may make one.  I think the Piezo driver makes a
> great image, but the inability to use my computer while it's printing is a
> killer for me.  (With the large files, I've never been able to cure what
> some say are spooling problems.)
> 
> Paul

> the link on that message doesn't work... it's:
> 
> <<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Inksets%
> 2C%20reviews%20and%20techniques/Piezo/>>>
> 
> Tyler doesn't use that paper but it still may be of interest to you.
> 
> Carolyn

-----Original Message-----
From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@...]
Sent: martedì 12 febbraio 2002 23.24
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow


Alessandro:

I am glad the workflow worked so well for you!

Did you change any other curve values (other than Red 80% from 65 to 
67)?  Please let me know so I can test your changes with my printer.  
I have noticed that my printer "drifts" slightly from day to day.  
Also as you pointed out, there appear to be slight variations among 
printers.

Thanks.

Jeff Randall

Group:

The workflow and curves for PhotoShop (.acv) and curves for Picture 
Windows (.cc) are posted in __Files> Inksets, reviews and techniques> 
MIS FS> 1160 Partitioned Workflow__  of this forum.  

The curves are still draft and I will update them after I get more 
feedback.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Alessandro Pardi 
<alessandro.pardi@i...> wrote:
> After a while,
>  
> I can happily report that I get great prints with this workflow, 
using a PC,
> an Epson 1160 with the Epson driver and EAM paper.
> I had to tweak the curves a bit, making the red (darkest gray) 
curve a bit
> steeper in the 80%-95% range, because the step-wedge print hadn't a 
very
> good separation in that area, but this may well be due to different 
printers
> samples. After that, my 1160 is able to brilliantly(1) print the 
Tyler's
> zees image, completely dotless, and with no apparent banding.
> I compared the step-wedge I printed with the Woolf's workflow, and 
there is
> a clear advantage with Randall's curves: no dots in the highlights 
(vs.
> visible, though absolutely acceptable, dots in the 5% with Woolf), 
no
> banding (vs. banding from 60% upwards), and even a deeper 100% 
black.
>  
> Please note that this report refers to the old FS inks: not the new
> reformulated inks, and not the FS neutral inks (so curves will 
probably need
> further tweaking for these sets).
> If anyone is interested, I can post the modified curves (or simply 
the
> values I changed: e.g.,  move 80% from 65 to 69).
>  
> Alessandro Pardi
>  
> (1) This means that I am able to see a Z in every square, although 
in some
> squares this is not so clear as in others.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@c...]
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 02:53
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Subject: [Digital BW] MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad 
Workflow
> 
> 
> I have developed a MIS Full Spectrum Partitioned RGB Quad Workflow 
> for Windows PCs,Epson 1160 Printer & Driver on EAM.  This might be 
> very useful for 1160 owners who want to try an RGB partitioned 
> workflow with the FS inks as an alternative to the Woolf lumped 
> grayscale workflow. The partitioned workflow takes full advantage 
of 
> the light, medium, and dark gray and black inks while the lumped 
> grayscale workflow combines the light, medium, and dark gray into 
one 
> mixed gray. 
> 
> The workflow and curves for PhotoShop (.acv) and Picture Windows 
> (.cc) are in ** Files> Inksets, reviews and techniques> MIS FS> 
1160 
> Partitioned Workflow ** of this forum.  The curves are draft and I 
> will update them soon.
> 
> Note:  You must be a member of this forum to download files.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> Jeff Randall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 
> < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> > 
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various
> resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> >
. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: jrandall1149 [mailto:jrandall@...]


Do you use a spectrophotometer to evaluate the printed GS-Stepwedge 
or do you use a flat bed scanner and PhotoShop or other image editor 
to check the percent value 0-100, (or pixel value 0-255, or density, 
or ??) of the patches?  

Jeff Randall



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other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> 

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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