Digital BW, The Print

Have we ever established whether MIS has actually discontinued the Eboni  6 
inks? 
 
Their web site still does not have any information as to the status of  the 
EB 6 ink set, however within the last week I've ordered and  received refills 
(4 oz bottles) of EB6 for the Light Magenta, Light Cyan and Yellow  positions. 
The only one that seems to be unavailable is the 4oz size of EB6  Carbon 
Monotone Matte Blk (Eboni) - K.
 
Rob






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

robtmckay@... wrote:
>
> Have we ever established whether MIS has actually discontinued 
> the Eboni  6 inks? 

I have received no information from MIS on this issue.

It may be a rumor that resulted from my recommending against Eboni-6 
for wide format printers (including 3800) due to the faster than 
normal settling of most of the dilute inks. (Eb6-Y's settlement rate 
is close to some other inks that are rather popular.)  On the other 
hand, I'm still printing very successfully with Eb6 in my 7500, the 
cartridge end of which I roll back and forth rigorously and routinely 
to keep the pigs evenly mixed.  Additionally, I pulled all support 
for the 1800 and other MIS carts that have the small sponges in them 
that the Eboni-6 base appears to attack.  (Carbon-6 does not have 
that problem, and with the Edwal wetting agent will probably work 
fine in even the 1.5 pl printers.)

> ... I've ordered and  received refills 
> (4 oz bottles) of EB6 for the Light Magenta, Light Cyan and
>  Yellow  positions. 

> The only one that seems to be unavailable is the 4oz size 
> of EB6  Carbon Monotone Matte Blk (Eboni) - K.

And that's the one -- standard Eboni MK -- that has been successfully 
used in all of the MIS inksets in the last several years.  I assume 
it's being re-ordered.  If the supplier can no longer get that, then 
we are in trouble, but I doubt that is the case.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" 
> And that's the one -- standard Eboni MK -- that has been successfully 
> used in all of the MIS inksets in the last several years.  I assume 
> it's being re-ordered.  If the supplier can no longer get that, then 
> we are in trouble, but I doubt that is the case.
> 


I have seen no indications that Image Specialists is killing that
product. If you need it, you can try contacting a few of their other
resellers and asking for WJ1082. Try InkRepublic and tell them I sent
you, they should be able to get you the ink because I think they use
it in one of their systems. If not they may know of another reseller
that has it in stock. If you want to buy 500ml bottles, you can
probably still order it from the MIS Image Specialists page (which
they seem to hide).
<http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003>
everything between the < >

http://www.image-specialists.com/catalog_pigment_ultra.aspx

On 16 Feb 2009, at 10:42 AM, Greg wrote:

> I have seen no indications that Image Specialists is killing that
> product. If you need it, you can try contacting a few of their other
> resellers and asking for WJ1082. Try InkRepublic and tell them I sent
> you, they should be able to get you the ink because I think they use
> it in one of their systems. If not they may know of another reseller
> that has it in stock. If you want to buy 500ml bottles, you can
> probably still order it from the MIS Image Specialists page (which
> they seem to hide).

That's fascinating.  I didn't realize the hidden identity of EB6.

> <http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003 
> >

I found a shorter link for the product:

	http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm/p/5932.html

--John

Here's some email I just received back from a supplier of WJ1082. I
asked about WJ1082 in an Epson 1400, and whether I could mix their
cartridges with OEM cartridges:

> On 2/18/2009, "Printer Filling Station" wrote:
> 
> If you use refillable cartridges you have to use them as a
> set. If you mix refillable cartridges with Epson cartridges it
> will not work. If you are going to refill the original T079
> cartridges then read this:
> http://www.refillinstructions.com/Epson/E25.htm Putting a
> pigmented ink (such as WJ1082) in a printer that is made to use
> dye-based ink could clog up your printhead.
> Sincerely, Gordon Lewis


I've asked him to verify that WJ1082 is indeed Eboni, but I have not yet
heard back. It is a little odd that they seem to discourage Eboni (if
that is what it is) in the 1400.

Andrew

On 02/17/2009 11:58 AM, John Labovitz wrote:
> 
> 
> On 16 Feb 2009, at 10:42 AM, Greg wrote:
> 
>> I have seen no indications that Image Specialists is killing that
>> product. If you need it, you can try contacting a few of their other
>> resellers and asking for WJ1082. Try InkRepublic and tell them I sent
>> you, they should be able to get you the ink because I think they use
>> it in one of their systems. If not they may know of another reseller
>> that has it in stock. If you want to buy 500ml bottles, you can
>> probably still order it from the MIS Image Specialists page (which
>> they seem to hide).
> 
> That's fascinating. I didn't realize the hidden identity of EB6.
> 
>>
> <http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003
> <http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003>
> 
>> >
> 
> I found a shorter link for the product:
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm/p/5932.html
> <http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm/p/5932.html>
> 
> --John
> 
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Sharpe
<asharpe@...> wrote:


> 
> I've asked him to verify that WJ1082 is indeed Eboni, but I have not yet
> heard back. It is a little odd that they seem to discourage Eboni (if
> that is what it is) in the 1400.
> 
> Andrew
> 


Eboni is a MIS trade name to obfuscate the real origins, no one else
calls it that and MIS will try to side step the question if you ask
them, they will never flat out admit they are the same inks. Take my
word for it or don't, it's up to you. Paul will not comment on this so
as not to stress ties with MIS. I have no ties with MIS in fact they
have pissed me off several times in the past so I only deal with them
when I have no other choice, which is a couple steps above my status
with Media Street (now some other company). MIS does not like people
knowing who really makes there ink, that is why they hide the Image
Specialists pages. I may be wrong, but I think they may be required to
sell the IS inks to keep some of there deals working, which is why
they hide the info. This is also why I prefer to buy from the IS part
number, because I then know exactly what I will be receiving. MIS
could change Eboni tomorrow and it may not be as good, but the WJ1082
will be the same until they stop making it.

As far as the third party carts with Epson carts, I've read that you
must use either all third party or all Epson. The reason I found is
due to the chips, if the printer sees some real and some third party,
it stops. Since I have not tried any of these most recent printers, I
am not certain this is true, but it would not surprise me.

Since the pigment inks and dye inks traditionally do not mix well,
then using Eboni (WJ1082) in a dye based printer along with the other
dye based inks may not be a good idea. The inks will mix on the
capping station and could produce a goo clogging the heads and
clogging the ink pump. Again I have not tried this, so I am not sure.
Paul may have mixed the two types of inks and may be able to give
better information. But as far as I know, it is still required to
flush dye based printers before switching them to pigment inks. Claria
is the only unknown since I just bought my first Claria based printer,
so I can't really comment on this either way. I probably will not mix
any Claria with the pigment inks that I have find to out what happens,
it's just something that I don't care to try.

When I called MIS about a month ago they told me that Eboni 6 was
discontinued. I have not contacted them for an update.
Gary Wagner

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
Sharpe
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 10:41 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Status of Eboni 6?

Here's some email I just received back from a supplier of WJ1082. I
asked about WJ1082 in an Epson 1400, and whether I could mix their
cartridges with OEM cartridges:

> On 2/18/2009, "Printer Filling Station" wrote:
>

And here is their reply about WJ1082. I'm starting to like these folks.

> Q: Is Eboni-6, in fact, WJ1082?
>
>> It is WJ1082 plus five dilution levels of the WJ1082. We only have the
>> WJ1082 and MIS makes the appropriate dilutions. Eboni is a MIS trade
>> mark. Go to their site for more details. This ink set is used to make
>> high quality black and white prints.
>> Sincerely, Gordon Lewis

Andrew

On 02/18/2009 10:40 PM, Andrew Sharpe wrote:
> Here's some email I just received back from a supplier of WJ1082. I
> asked about WJ1082 in an Epson 1400, and whether I could mix their
> cartridges with OEM cartridges:
> 
>> On 2/18/2009, "Printer Filling Station" wrote:
>>
>> If you use refillable cartridges you have to use them as a
>> set. If you mix refillable cartridges with Epson cartridges it
>> will not work. If you are going to refill the original T079
>> cartridges then read this:
>> http://www.refillinstructions.com/Epson/E25.htm Putting a
>> pigmented ink (such as WJ1082) in a printer that is made to use
>> dye-based ink could clog up your printhead.
>> Sincerely, Gordon Lewis
> 
> 
> I've asked him to verify that WJ1082 is indeed Eboni, but I have not yet
> heard back. It is a little odd that they seem to discourage Eboni (if
> that is what it is) in the 1400.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/17/2009 11:58 AM, John Labovitz wrote:
>>
>> On 16 Feb 2009, at 10:42 AM, Greg wrote:
>>
>>> I have seen no indications that Image Specialists is killing that
>>> product. If you need it, you can try contacting a few of their other
>>> resellers and asking for WJ1082. Try InkRepublic and tell them I sent
>>> you, they should be able to get you the ink because I think they use
>>> it in one of their systems. If not they may know of another reseller
>>> that has it in stock. If you want to buy 500ml bottles, you can
>>> probably still order it from the MIS Image Specialists page (which
>>> they seem to hide).
>> That's fascinating. I didn't realize the hidden identity of EB6.
>>
>> <http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003
>> <http://www.inksupply.com/shopping_details.cfm?productID=5932&the_passed_search_categoryID_list=&the_passed_search_brandID_list=1003>
>>
>> I found a shorter link for the product:
>>
>> http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm/p/5932.html
>> <http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm/p/5932.html>
>>
>> --John
>>
>> 
>

Thanks, Greg, this is good information. I posted a reply from this other
supplier stating that, yes, you are correct, WJ1082 is indeed Eboni. So,
if I want to print BO in the 1400, then I don't need any other ink in
the other cartridges. I think someone on this mailing list mentioned
distilled water. I'll probably try this supplier's Claria replacements
first; at least I'll be able to refill. I've just asked them about the
archival characteristics of this Claria-replacement ink; the ink numbers
are WJ1136, WJ2094, WJ6137, WJ7049, WJ2095, and WJ6138.

Andrew

On 02/19/2009 06:44 AM, Greg wrote:
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Andrew Sharpe
> <asharpe@...> wrote:
> 
>>
>> I've asked him to verify that WJ1082 is indeed Eboni, but I have not yet
>> heard back. It is a little odd that they seem to discourage Eboni (if
>> that is what it is) in the 1400.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
> 
> Eboni is a MIS trade name to obfuscate the real origins, no one else
> calls it that and MIS will try to side step the question if you ask
> them, they will never flat out admit they are the same inks. Take my
> word for it or don't, it's up to you. Paul will not comment on this so
> as not to stress ties with MIS. I have no ties with MIS in fact they
> have pissed me off several times in the past so I only deal with them
> when I have no other choice, which is a couple steps above my status
> with Media Street (now some other company). MIS does not like people
> knowing who really makes there ink, that is why they hide the Image
> Specialists pages. I may be wrong, but I think they may be required to
> sell the IS inks to keep some of there deals working, which is why
> they hide the info. This is also why I prefer to buy from the IS part
> number, because I then know exactly what I will be receiving. MIS
> could change Eboni tomorrow and it may not be as good, but the WJ1082
> will be the same until they stop making it.
> 
> As far as the third party carts with Epson carts, I've read that you
> must use either all third party or all Epson. The reason I found is
> due to the chips, if the printer sees some real and some third party,
> it stops. Since I have not tried any of these most recent printers, I
> am not certain this is true, but it would not surprise me.
> 
> Since the pigment inks and dye inks traditionally do not mix well,
> then using Eboni (WJ1082) in a dye based printer along with the other
> dye based inks may not be a good idea. The inks will mix on the
> capping station and could produce a goo clogging the heads and
> clogging the ink pump. Again I have not tried this, so I am not sure.
> Paul may have mixed the two types of inks and may be able to give
> better information. But as far as I know, it is still required to
> flush dye based printers before switching them to pigment inks. Claria
> is the only unknown since I just bought my first Claria based printer,
> so I can't really comment on this either way. I probably will not mix
> any Claria with the pigment inks that I have find to out what happens,
> it's just something that I don't care to try.
> 
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Sharpe
<asharpe@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Greg, this is good information. I posted a reply from this other
> supplier stating that, yes, you are correct, WJ1082 is indeed Eboni. So,
> if I want to print BO in the 1400, then I don't need any other ink in
> the other cartridges. I think someone on this mailing list mentioned
> distilled water. I'll probably try this supplier's Claria replacements
> first; at least I'll be able to refill. I've just asked them about the
> archival characteristics of this Claria-replacement ink; the ink numbers
> are WJ1136, WJ2094, WJ6137, WJ7049, WJ2095, and WJ6138.
> 
> Andrew
> 



Archival is not very good! In fact fleeting may be more appropriate.
You will have to wait a few months before I can tell you anything more
about Claria replacement inks. I have some Anti-UV dye inks in some
really cheap carts that I will try, and the inks from InkRepublic that
comes with the CIS, and hopefully two more inks that are not yet
available for sale, one dye, one pigment. It has been a week since I
talked the the manufacturer of these new inks, and not a word yet on
them, so either they will simply arrive or they haven't been shipped.
I should be printing sometime next week with all this stuff, and
sticking them in the window to see what happens.

Definitely run at least water in the other "empty" carts or you will
burn out the heads, they need a liquid to keep them cool. Might be a
good idea to put some sort of surfactant in the water to keep the
surface tension down, I think Paul is using Photo-Flow. Alternately
you might run WJ820 in the empty carts, or mix WJ820 with DI water to
make the cleaner last longer.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Wagner"
<gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> When I called MIS about a month ago they told me that Eboni 6 was
> discontinued. I have not contacted them for an update.
> Gary Wagner
> 


That is Eboni6, not the straight Eboni matte black ink. And if they
did decide to kill it, until there is something better Image
Specialists should continue making the WJ1082 and Paul still has
information about mixing the dilutions, so it shouldn't be too much of
a problem to replicate the ink system.

"Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>...
> Definitely run at least water in the other "empty" carts ...
> I think Paul is using Photo-Flow. ...

I recommend the "C6" base described at page 2 of 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf
The glycerol will help stop the pads from drying out. The surfactants, 
including Photo Flo, will help keep things clean.

I note that Eboni-6 is still listed on the MIS website at 
http://inksupply.com/eb6.cfm    It does appear that they no longer list 
the pre-filled carts on the 1400 page.  That may be what was being 
referred to regarding discontinuing the product.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

When I click on the link to order K,LK and LLK it says "Item not available,
Sorry this item is not in the database". This is why I called MIS a month
ago when they told me Eboni 6 was discontinued. They explained by saying
that the chemical needed to make the dilutions was no longer available. I
have not received any update since my one call.

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:31 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Status of Eboni 6?

 

"Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:

>...
> Definitely run at least water in the other "empty" carts ...
> I think Paul is using Photo-Flow. ...

I recommend the "C6" base described at page 2 of 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf
The glycerol will help stop the pads from drying out. The surfactants, 
including Photo Flo, will help keep things clean.

I note that Eboni-6 is still listed on the MIS website at 
http://inksupply.com/eb6.cfm It does appear that they no longer list 
the pre-filled carts on the 1400 page. That may be what was being 
referred to regarding discontinuing the product.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Wagner"
<gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> When I click on the link to order K,LK and LLK it says "Item not
available,
> Sorry this item is not in the database". This is why I called MIS a
month
> ago when they told me Eboni 6 was discontinued. They explained by saying
> that the chemical needed to make the dilutions was no longer
available. I
> have not received any update since my one call.
> 
> Gary Wagner
> 


Would be nice to know what that component is.

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:


> When I click on the link to order K,LK and LLK it says 
> "Item not available, Sorry this item is not in the database". 
> This is why I called MIS a month
> ago when they told me Eboni 6 was discontinued. 

I see what you're saying.  I think the problem is that the people on 
the phone and who made their web page for Eboni-6 -- at 
http://inksupply.com/eb6.cfm -- are not familiar with the inkset.

Eb6-LK = Eb6-M, and Eb6-LLK = Eb6-LM. (See page 2 of 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf ) Both Eb6-M and LM are 
available.  Eb6-K = Eboni, which is available for the other inksets 
and is the same ink for all.  It's just not properly linked with 
respect to the MIS Eboni-6 web page.  So, basically, it looks like an 
incomplete web page, not a lack of availability.

> They explained by saying
> that the chemical needed to make the dilutions was no
> longer available.

If their supplier has cut off access to the base, it's news to me, 
but then I would not necessarily be informed of such problems.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com