Digital BW, The Print

I have used MIS color and B&W inks with Epson 84/6/8, 2200 and R1800  
printers for about three years.

Clogging is not a *major* issue, but it does occur with annoying  
frequency.  My recollection is that Eboni (pure matte black) is rarely  
a problem, but that everything else, color or black, can be  
problematic from time to time.

A few months ago I bought an Epson 4880. It is supposed to have new  
head design or material or something so it is less prone to clogging,  
and it does not have the tiny jet-size of the R1800.   So far, so go.   
There have been a couple minor issues that required head cleaning, but  
the printer took care of it.

I will soon need to begin replacing the ink cartridges.  I'm using  
220ml cartridges, at more than $100 each.

I am *tempted* to try MIS inks, but I'm worried that this might  
decrease the reliability of the printer.  With a less expensive  
printer I wouldn't fret.  But the 4880 is too big, too heavy and too  
expensive to expose to a meaningfully greater risk of "death clogging".

Does anyone have any experience or information that would help me  
judge whether there is greater risk of problems with MIS inks than  
with Epson inks on a 4880?   At least with my other printers I prefer  
Eboni black to Epson's MK, but otherwise have no visual preferences  
one way or the other.

Thanks.
Myron



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myron,

There's lots of opinions out there on both sides of the issue. I've
never heard of any definitive study that proves it one way or the other.
The manufacturers don't provide any data, so how many of those machines
replaced under warranty were due to ink blockages?

User experience varies in ways that are not obvious in anecdotal
reports: what is the frequency of use; what are the user's expectations;
how adept is he/she at analyzing and solving technical problems and
dealing with things like refilling and/or continuous inking systems; how
comfortable are you with taking the risk and relying on your own skills,
etc. What may be problematic for you, is probably just a more or less
interesting challenge for someone else - I'm in that category, I don't
rely on my printer for income or any other critical use; I don't have so
many gallery shows that there is a huge demand for my prints on tight
deadlines.

Over almost 10 years of digital printing I've heard reports on both
sides: third party inks clog more frequently or only just as frequently
as OEM inks. My own experience and analysis is that most "clogs" are due
to air gaps at the cart exit port, not dry ink in the nozzles and that
dry ink is as likely to cause problems from a build-up on the underside
of the head as from drying in the nozzle.

I don't have any late-model Epson printers - I'm still using one of the
three 2200's with MIS Pro pigment inks and I've been using MIS pigment
inks in various machines since they came out. Of the 3 2200s, one is in
storage because I thought it had a fatal mechanical or firmware fault
and one flat-out broke after warranty. 2 have been rebuilt machines. The
one I'm running has been in use for about 3 years and I haven't bought
OEM ink in 5 years or more. I do very little printing, the machine can
sit for weeks at a time without use, so I'm a prime candidate for
clogging, except for those in very dry climates with similar uses.
Nozzle checks often show broken patterns, but they always clear up with
one or two full-power cleaning cycles (thanks to SSC Service Utility!).
I even ran out of Yellow ink recently because I accidentally pulled the
tube out of the ink in the reservoir and the whole cart went dry - it
recovered without a problem.

So, my conclusion is that, if you're technically competent and don't
mind fooling around with your equipment, third party inks, like MIS's,
are the way to go. If you only want a turn-key system and will call for
help at the least problem, stick with OEM all the way. If I was a
commercial printer, I'd also stick to OEM for the service, at least
during the warranty period.

Frank
_____________________________________
Myron wrote:
 Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:30 am (PST)

    I have used MIS color and B&W inks with Epson 84/6/8, 2200 and R1800
    printers for about three years.

    Clogging is not a *major* issue, but it does occur with annoying
    frequency. My recollection is that Eboni (pure matte black) is rarely
    a problem, but that everything else, color or black, can be
    problematic from time to time.

    A few months ago I bought an Epson 4880. It is supposed to have new
    head design or material or something so it is less prone to clogging,
    and it does not have the tiny jet-size of the R1800. So far, so go.
    There have been a couple minor issues that required head cleaning, but
    the printer took care of it.

    I will soon need to begin replacing the ink cartridges. I'm using
    220ml cartridges, at more than $100 each.

    I am *tempted* to try MIS inks, but I'm worried that this might
    decrease the reliability of the printer. With a less expensive
    printer I wouldn't fret. But the 4880 is too big, too heavy and too
    expensive to expose to a meaningfully greater risk of "death clogging".

    Does anyone have any experience or information that would help me
    judge whether there is greater risk of problems with MIS inks than
    with Epson inks on a 4880? At least with my other printers I prefer
    Eboni black to Epson's MK, but otherwise have no visual preferences
    one way or the other.

    Thanks.
    Myron

wht not try OCP inks instead?

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, kolwicz@... <kolwicz@...> wrote:

From: kolwicz@... <kolwicz@minetfiber.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re:Clogging risks
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 12:32 PM











    
            Myron,



There's lots of opinions out there on both sides of the issue. I've

never heard of any definitive study that proves it one way or the other.

The manufacturers don't provide any data, so how many of those machines

replaced under warranty were due to ink blockages?



User experience varies in ways that are not obvious in anecdotal

reports: what is the frequency of use; what are the user's expectations;

how adept is he/she at analyzing and solving technical problems and

dealing with things like refilling and/or continuous inking systems; how

comfortable are you with taking the risk and relying on your own skills,

etc. What may be problematic for you, is probably just a more or less

interesting challenge for someone else - I'm in that category, I don't

rely on my printer for income or any other critical use; I don't have so

many gallery shows that there is a huge demand for my prints on tight

deadlines.



Over almost 10 years of digital printing I've heard reports on both

sides: third party inks clog more frequently or only just as frequently

as OEM inks. My own experience and analysis is that most "clogs" are due

to air gaps at the cart exit port, not dry ink in the nozzles and that

dry ink is as likely to cause problems from a build-up on the underside

of the head as from drying in the nozzle.



I don't have any late-model Epson printers - I'm still using one of the

three 2200's with MIS Pro pigment inks and I've been using MIS pigment

inks in various machines since they came out. Of the 3 2200s, one is in

storage because I thought it had a fatal mechanical or firmware fault

and one flat-out broke after warranty. 2 have been rebuilt machines. The

one I'm running has been in use for about 3 years and I haven't bought

OEM ink in 5 years or more. I do very little printing, the machine can

sit for weeks at a time without use, so I'm a prime candidate for

clogging, except for those in very dry climates with similar uses.

Nozzle checks often show broken patterns, but they always clear up with

one or two full-power cleaning cycles (thanks to SSC Service Utility!).

I even ran out of Yellow ink recently because I accidentally pulled the

tube out of the ink in the reservoir and the whole cart went dry - it

recovered without a problem.



So, my conclusion is that, if you're technically competent and don't

mind fooling around with your equipment, third party inks, like MIS's,

are the way to go. If you only want a turn-key system and will call for

help at the least problem, stick with OEM all the way. If I was a

commercial printer, I'd also stick to OEM for the service, at least

during the warranty period.



Frank

____________ _________ _________ _______

Myron wrote:

 Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:30 am (PST)



I have used MIS color and B&W inks with Epson 84/6/8, 2200 and R1800

    printers for about three years.



Clogging is not a *major* issue, but it does occur with annoying

    frequency. My recollection is that Eboni (pure matte black) is rarely

    a problem, but that everything else, color or black, can be

    problematic from time to time.



A few months ago I bought an Epson 4880. It is supposed to have new

    head design or material or something so it is less prone to clogging,

    and it does not have the tiny jet-size of the R1800. So far, so go.

    There have been a couple minor issues that required head cleaning, but

    the printer took care of it.



I will soon need to begin replacing the ink cartridges. I'm using

    220ml cartridges, at more than $100 each.



I am *tempted* to try MIS inks, but I'm worried that this might

    decrease the reliability of the printer. With a less expensive

    printer I wouldn't fret. But the 4880 is too big, too heavy and too

    expensive to expose to a meaningfully greater risk of "death clogging".



Does anyone have any experience or information that would help me

    judge whether there is greater risk of problems with MIS inks than

    with Epson inks on a 4880? At least with my other printers I prefer

    Eboni black to Epson's MK, but otherwise have no visual preferences

    one way or the other.



Thanks.

    Myron


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, RobLee
<roblee007@...> wrote:
>
> wht not try OCP inks instead?
> 


Been there, wanted to try them, couldn't even get them to sell me
samples, so screw them!

If they can't be bothered to even point me to a reseller so that I
might get samples, then I don't need to try their inks. One of the ink
places I spoke to had tried one of the OCP dye ink sets, their
comments were that the inks were basically junk, faded quicker than
most, and batch to batch consistency was HORRIBLE! They also clogged
the printer so badly that it was trash.(Hmm... Sounds a lot like Lyson)

And yes I do trust the information that I got from that company.

you see I got samples of their ink with no problem at all. Just want to know before refilling my carts.

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Greg <dfaprinting@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Greg <dfaprinting@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re:Clogging risks
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 5:00 PM











    
            --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, RobLee

<roblee007@. ..> wrote:

>

> wht not try OCP inks instead?

> 



Been there, wanted to try them, couldn't even get them to sell me

samples, so screw them!



If they can't be bothered to even point me to a reseller so that I

might get samples, then I don't need to try their inks. One of the ink

places I spoke to had tried one of the OCP dye ink sets, their

comments were that the inks were basically junk, faded quicker than

most, and batch to batch consistency was HORRIBLE! They also clogged

the printer so badly that it was trash.(Hmm.. . Sounds a lot like Lyson)



And yes I do trust the information that I got from that company.




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, RobLee
<roblee007@...> wrote:
>
> you see I got samples of their ink with no problem at all. Just want
to know before refilling my carts.
> 


Well, I guess Werner doesn't like me then. He is only interested in
communicating with resellers.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer 
<goch@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any experience or information that would help me  
> judge whether there is greater risk of problems with MIS inks than  
> with Epson inks on a 4880?   At least with my other printers I 
prefer  
> Eboni black to Epson's MK, but otherwise have no visual 
preferences  
> one way or the other.
> 
> Thanks.
> Myron
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Myron,

I do not have any experience with the MIS 4880 inkset but have 
experience with using MIS inks in the R1800. A few points come to 
mind.

Firstly, MIS inks with refillable carts or CIS are surely higher 
maintenance than OEM inks and carts. The cost of your time messing 
about with them needs to be factored in.

Secondly, the inks are one thing, ink delivery is another. I have 
found the bigger issue is getting a reliable refillable cartridge or 
CIS than the ink itself. Air-locks, leaks etc are a bigger issue than 
clogs.

Thirdly, how material is the cost advantage of MIS inks over the 
large 220ml carts? It must be a lot less than the smaller carts.

Personally I rather enjoy the craft of messing around mixing up inks 
and trying to strive for the best BW approach for my tastes. But it 
is not without its fustrations!