Digital BW, The Print

Hello ,
I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
papers.
I also worked with HARMAN technology to help launch some of their new
true
Baryta based inkjet papers.  It seemed everyone was trying to
reproduce the look and feel of a true darkroom print.
At the same time, HARMAN developed a gelatin silver paper that could
be exposed with light using a Durst Lambda or Lightjet laser enlarger.
  The file was exposed with light onto the paper (in a large imaging
"drum") and then processed in traditional B&W chemicals.  It seemed
like a match made in heaven!  The fiber based paper is actually the
Ilford Galerie darkroom paper and the RC is on their Ilfospeed RC
darkroom paper base.
After speaking with many local photographers, I decided to offer the
service in the New England area.  I am curious how some of you might
view this service?  Have any of you seem or tried it?  Did you know it
was possible?  I know many of you are working with a variety of inkjet
methods, some of which sound successful, others quite frustrating.
As a photographer myself and I would welcome all feedback, positive or
negative.  Feel free to visit our site for any information and you can
fill in
some comments, or you can reach me here.

DSI Contact Us page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/contact.php>
DSI Home page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com>

Thank you & regards,

Eric Luden
Owner at Digital Silver Imaging



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elevator Digital offers this from Toronto from a Lambda. It seems like 
an excellent idea. The only problem is that it's really expensive. When 
I looked at it several years ago it was like 5x the cost of an inkjet 
print (vs. Cone K7s on HPR for example). That kind of pricing just put 
it beyond consideration; I didn't bother to try it. If you can make it 
competitive, I'll certainly consider it.
--
Bruce Watson




eluden123 wrote:

> Hello ,
> I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
> many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
> years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
> a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
> trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
> every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
> the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
> papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
> papers.
> I also worked with HARMAN technology to help launch some of their new
> true
> Baryta based inkjet papers.  It seemed everyone was trying to
> reproduce the look and feel of a true darkroom print.
> At the same time, HARMAN developed a gelatin silver paper that could
> be exposed with light using a Durst Lambda or Lightjet laser enlarger.
>   The file was exposed with light onto the paper (in a large imaging
> "drum") and then processed in traditional B&W chemicals.  It seemed
> like a match made in heaven!  The fiber based paper is actually the
> Ilford Galerie darkroom paper and the RC is on their Ilfospeed RC
> darkroom paper base.
> After speaking with many local photographers, I decided to offer the
> service in the New England area.  I am curious how some of you might
> view this service?  Have any of you seem or tried it?  Did you know it
> was possible?  I know many of you are working with a variety of inkjet
> methods, some of which sound successful, others quite frustrating.
> As a photographer myself and I would welcome all feedback, positive or
> negative.  Feel free to visit our site for any information and you can
> fill in
> some comments, or you can reach me here.
>
> DSI Contact Us page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/contact.php>
> DSI Home page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com>
>
> Thank you & regards,
>
> Eric Luden
> Owner at Digital Silver Imaging
>

these folks too-

http://www.dalmatianlab.com/resources/

Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Watson
<bwyg@...> wrote:

>
> Elevator Digital offers this from Toronto from a Lambda. It seems like 
> an excellent idea. The only problem is that it's really expensive. When 
> I looked at it several years ago it was like 5x the cost of an inkjet 
> print (vs. Cone K7s on HPR for example). That kind of pricing just put 
> it beyond consideration; I didn't bother to try it. If you can make it 
> competitive, I'll certainly consider it.
> --
> Bruce Watson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eluden123 wrote:
> > Hello ,
> > I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
> > many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
> > years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
> > a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
> > trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
> > every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
> > the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
> > papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
> > papers.
> > I also worked with HARMAN technology to help launch some of their new
> > true
> > Baryta based inkjet papers.  It seemed everyone was trying to
> > reproduce the look and feel of a true darkroom print.
> > At the same time, HARMAN developed a gelatin silver paper that could
> > be exposed with light using a Durst Lambda or Lightjet laser enlarger.
> >   The file was exposed with light onto the paper (in a large imaging
> > "drum") and then processed in traditional B&W chemicals.  It seemed
> > like a match made in heaven!  The fiber based paper is actually the
> > Ilford Galerie darkroom paper and the RC is on their Ilfospeed RC
> > darkroom paper base.
> > After speaking with many local photographers, I decided to offer the
> > service in the New England area.  I am curious how some of you might
> > view this service?  Have any of you seem or tried it?  Did you know it
> > was possible?  I know many of you are working with a variety of inkjet
> > methods, some of which sound successful, others quite frustrating.
> > As a photographer myself and I would welcome all feedback, positive or
> > negative.  Feel free to visit our site for any information and you can
> > fill in
> > some comments, or you can reach me here.
> >
> > DSI Contact Us page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/contact.php>
> > DSI Home page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com>
> >
> > Thank you & regards,
> >
> > Eric Luden
> > Owner at Digital Silver Imaging
> >
>

Bruce Watson <bwyg@...> wrote:
>
> ... It seems like an excellent idea. The only problem is that 
> it's really expensive. ...

As an aside, I tried all sorts of ways to make silver prints from 
digital files early in the digital transition.  For a couple of years 
what I did that was the most affordable and very satisfying (I kept 
final control in the darkroom) was to have the local Samy's camera 
store make 8x10 internegatives using their Fujix Pictography 
machine.  The machine was never intended for this purpose, but I 
found their 400 ppi (true RGB pixels) overhead transparency media 
made fine internegs that enlarged to 16 x 20 very nicely.  My Beseler 
4x5 enlarger was easy and cheap to make an 8x10 head for, and an Apo 
Rodagon process lens was also very affordable and did a great job.

I think there clearly is demand for silver prints from digital 
files.  While I probably won't be going that route for my own prints, 
if a customer wanted to have a silver print of one of my images, I'd 
farm it out to a service bureau that had a good laser to silver 
process.  Maybe I ought to even have that as an option noted at the 
gallery.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

there are companies offering digital negatives made on substrates like FujiClear output on Lightjets or Chromira printers.  This would be very similar to what you got with the Pictography machine.
--
Best Wishes,

Mark Nelson
Precision Digital Negatives
PDN Print Forum @ Yahoo! Groups
Mark Nelson Photography

On Feb 27, 2009, at 4:35:23 PM, pr_roark <pr_roark@yahoo.com> wrote:

As an aside, I tried all sorts of ways to make silver prints from 
digital files early in the digital transition. For a couple of years 
what I did that was the most affordable and very satisfying (I kept 
final control in the darkroom) was to have the local Samy's camera 
store make 8x10 internegatives using their Fujix Pictography 
machine. The machine was never intended for this purpose, but I 
found their 400 ppi (true RGB pixels) overhead transparency media 
made fine internegs that enlarged to 16 x 20 very nicely. My Beseler 
4x5 enlarger was easy and cheap to make an 8x10 head for, and an Apo 
Rodagon process lens was also very affordable and did a great job.

I think there clearly is demand for silver prints from digital 
files. While I probably won't be going that route for my own prints, 
if a customer wanted to have a silver print of one of my images, I'd 
farm it out to a service bureau that had a good laser to silver 
process. Maybe I ought to even have that as an option noted at the 
gallery.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a photographer client, I would say very much in the west coast
tradition, likes red filters, good strong tonality and came from the
darkroom tradition, including workshops with Allan Ross and others in
the past.
I've been drum scanning his 4x5s and printing with Selenium inks on
PhotoRag for him for a few years now. After some new papers came out I
finally liked for PK, and I got an ink setup I found acceptable for
them for now, we made several prints from the same neg...
One as always, Selenium on HPR.
One UCK3PK on HPR Baryta with a dmax a fill one point higher.
and he had a silver print output from the file as well from one of
these new offerings.

To his surprise, after wishing for years for some digital solution
with the feel of his older silver prints...
He liked the Selenium HPR prints the best.
I respect the wishes of those like Bruce and others who want something
with more reflection density range than the fine art papers offer, and
I think it will come along at some point.
But I don't think the finesse is there in the look of it yet, and the
monochromatic inks and fine art papers have had time to evolve into
something that really speaks for those whose work the approach really
suites. Hope that makes sense.
Also, you just can't take the same file and print with all those
processes and have the process be the criteria, you have to optimize
the tonal qualities in the file to make each set of materials shine in
their own way. In some ways the old S curve made lovely silver for
those who knew how to print.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
>  Bruce Watson <bwyg@> wrote:
> >
> > ... It seems like an excellent idea. The only problem is that 
> > it's really expensive. ...
> 
> As an aside, I tried all sorts of ways to make silver prints from 
> digital files early in the digital transition.  For a couple of years 
> what I did that was the most affordable and very satisfying (I kept 
> final control in the darkroom) was to have the local Samy's camera 
> store make 8x10 internegatives using their Fujix Pictography 
> machine.  The machine was never intended for this purpose, but I 
> found their 400 ppi (true RGB pixels) overhead transparency media 
> made fine internegs that enlarged to 16 x 20 very nicely.  My Beseler 
> 4x5 enlarger was easy and cheap to make an 8x10 head for, and an Apo 
> Rodagon process lens was also very affordable and did a great job.
> 
> I think there clearly is demand for silver prints from digital 
> files.  While I probably won't be going that route for my own prints, 
> if a customer wanted to have a silver print of one of my images, I'd 
> farm it out to a service bureau that had a good laser to silver 
> process.  Maybe I ought to even have that as an option noted at the 
> gallery.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Tyler Boley wrote:
> Also, you just can't take the same file and print with all those
> processes and have the process be the criteria, you have to optimize
> the tonal qualities in the file to make each set of materials shine in
> their own way. In some ways the old S curve made lovely silver for
> those who knew how to print.
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
>   

Absolutely. If you print the same file that is tuned for HPR on a paper 
that's linear out another stop it will print too dark. We've compressed 
the shadow detail to make it work on HPR; we have to uncompress the 
shadow details somewhat (especially between the shadow details and 
black) to make it work on a paper with a higher Dmax.

One of the reasons I wanted out of darkroom printing is the frustration 
of dealing with the toe and shoulder of the darkroom papers, all 
somewhat different from one another. Trying to hold shadow details and 
highlight details in the same darkroom print was always an exercise in 
frustration for me, and usually many (way too many) workprints. Much as 
I tried, I just could never develop the correct "feel" for the process 
and so never felt like I was fully competent at it.

Inkjet printing solved those problems. At the expense of introducing its 
own set of frustrations ;-) Oh well.
--
Bruce Watson

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "eluden123" <eluden123@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello ,
> I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
> many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
> years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
> a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
> trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
> every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
> the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
> papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
> papers.

 SNIP

> Eric Luden
> Owner at Digital Silver Imaging
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On your website, I've requested adding my name to your email list.

Are scanned images to be prepared just as they would be for an inkjet print?  In particular, 
would any changes in sharpening workflow be recommended?

Harry

The alternative we offer is a super high resolution silver negative made 
on our LVT film recorder. We make these in large format sizes up to 80 
lines per millimeter. As the LVT is like a drum scanner, the negative is 
pin sharp corner to corner without falloff or flare, so a contact print 
should be as good as a Lambda or Lightjet print, maybe better. The 
quality of enlargements is limited only by the skill and equipment of 
the darkroom technician. We've made stunning murals from our 8x10 
negatives. Do the math and you see that 80 res equals over 2000 lpi, 
therefore a four times enlargement from an 8x10 neg winds up at 500 lpi 
at the final size.

The Ilford digital paper is a viable way to go for many people. I've 
seen the results and it's great, but anyone could enlarge our negatives 
in his or her own darkroom onto any paper or process they wanted to use 
now or in the future and that, plus the fact that there is a real 
original silver negative to archive for the future, is a huge 
consideration for many. Right now we're making these on FP4 up to 8x10 
but we're going up to 16x20 sizes soon with densities and curves 
appropriate for contact printing to alternative print processes. In 
order to help us design better solutions, I welcome all feedback.

John Castronovo
Tech Photo & Imaging

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "eluden123"

Hello ,
I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
papers.
I also worked with HARMAN technology to help launch some of their new
true
Baryta based inkjet papers.  It seemed everyone was trying to
reproduce the look and feel of a true darkroom print.
At the same time, HARMAN developed a gelatin silver paper that could
be exposed with light using a Durst Lambda or Lightjet laser enlarger.
  The file was exposed with light onto the paper (in a large imaging
"drum") and then processed in traditional B&W chemicals.  It seemed
like a match made in heaven!  The fiber based paper is actually the
Ilford Galerie darkroom paper and the RC is on their Ilfospeed RC
darkroom paper base.
After speaking with many local photographers, I decided to offer the
service in the New England area.  I am curious how some of you might
view this service?  Have any of you seem or tried it?  Did you know it
was possible?  I know many of you are working with a variety of inkjet
methods, some of which sound successful, others quite frustrating.
As a photographer myself and I would welcome all feedback, positive or
negative.  Feel free to visit our site for any information and you can
fill in
some comments, or you can reach me here.

DSI Contact Us page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/contact.php>
DSI Home page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com>

Thank you & regards,

Eric Luden
Owner at Digital Silver Imaging

Guys, are we doing sales pitches on this e-group now? I know it is a  
great way to pass on info about digital black and white printing, but  
to me it comes across as a solicitation, something I was hoping would  
not happen in this group.

Mark (yes, my signature has my company name in it)
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:03 PM, john castronovo wrote:

> The alternative we offer is a super high resolution silver negative  
> made
> on our LVT film recorder. We make these in large format sizes up to 80
> lines per millimeter. As the LVT is like a drum scanner, the  
> negative is
> pin sharp corner to corner without falloff or flare, so a contact  
> print
> should be as good as a Lambda or Lightjet print, maybe better. The
> quality of enlargements is limited only by the skill and equipment of
> the darkroom technician. We've made stunning murals from our 8x10
> negatives. Do the math and you see that 80 res equals over 2000 lpi,
> therefore a four times enlargement from an 8x10 neg winds up at 500  
> lpi
> at the final size.
>
> The Ilford digital paper is a viable way to go for many people. I've
> seen the results and it's great, but anyone could enlarge our  
> negatives
> in his or her own darkroom onto any paper or process they wanted to  
> use
> now or in the future and that, plus the fact that there is a real
> original silver negative to archive for the future, is a huge
> consideration for many. Right now we're making these on FP4 up to 8x10
> but we're going up to 16x20 sizes soon with densities and curves
> appropriate for contact printing to alternative print processes. In
> order to help us design better solutions, I welcome all feedback.
>
> John Castronovo
> Tech Photo & Imaging
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "eluden123"
>
> Hello ,
> I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
> many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
> years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  As
> a b&w photographer, I had been frustrated by the various methods of
> trying to produce a b&w print from a digital file. I had worked with
> every inkjet printer, going back to the Epson Photo Printer, I think
> the 700 series!  I helped launch a variety of the Ilford inkjet
> papers, including the Smooth RC series and some of their fine art
> papers.
> I also worked with HARMAN technology to help launch some of their new
> true
> Baryta based inkjet papers.  It seemed everyone was trying to
> reproduce the look and feel of a true darkroom print.
> At the same time, HARMAN developed a gelatin silver paper that could
> be exposed with light using a Durst Lambda or Lightjet laser enlarger.
>   The file was exposed with light onto the paper (in a large imaging
> "drum") and then processed in traditional B&W chemicals.  It seemed
> like a match made in heaven!  The fiber based paper is actually the
> Ilford Galerie darkroom paper and the RC is on their Ilfospeed RC
> darkroom paper base.
> After speaking with many local photographers, I decided to offer the
> service in the New England area.  I am curious how some of you might
> view this service?  Have any of you seem or tried it?  Did you know it
> was possible?  I know many of you are working with a variety of inkjet
> methods, some of which sound successful, others quite frustrating.
> As a photographer myself and I would welcome all feedback, positive or
> negative.  Feel free to visit our site for any information and you can
> fill in
> some comments, or you can reach me here.
>
> DSI Contact Us page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com/contact.php>
> DSI Home page <http://www.digitalsilverimaging.com>
>
> Thank you & regards,
>
> Eric Luden
> Owner at Digital Silver Imaging



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "eluden123"
<eluden123@...> wrote:
> I have been a member of this group for about 1 year and check and read
> many of your posts and queries.  I had been at ILFORD for over 15
> years and decided to start my own venture, Digital Silver Imaging.  

Hello Eric,

I visited your website because of an interest in silver print from
digital files.

Reading from your website I also found this:

"No Questions about Longevity. Fiber-based black & white prints are
proven to last over a hundred years. The inkjet process has existed
for a fraction of that time. Why take a chance that your
once-in-a-lifetime image may end up short-lived?"

I'd say that's pretty much of a broad statement encompassing all type
of digital b&w printing, shedding doubts about the longevity of all
digital prints.

True the inkjet process is pretty recent, but materials such as carbon
and unbrightened rag paper have been around for a long time. It's the
method of applying carbon to rag paper which is recent. 

I wish you success on your commercial endeavor, truly for it is a
noble art to be b&w silver printing. However this process exist for
its intrinsyc values, just like digital b&w printing and should be
promoted as such. Neither printing methods really replaces the other
without any needs to cast doubts about the other printing method.

Regards,
Andre Moreau

Yes, well it's often hard to draw the line between helpful information 
and p/r when you're in the business of providing solutions and answers. 
Neither Eric or myself are the only places to offer what we do, but it's 
clear to me from the frequent questions about it that lots of the 
members here don't realize that such services are available and I was 
only trying to educate by illustrating the alternatives. You'll note 
that I refrained from adding my web site and phone number.

john c

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Savoia"

Guys, are we doing sales pitches on this e-group now? I know it is a
great way to pass on info about digital black and white printing, but
to me it comes across as a solicitation, something I was hoping would
not happen in this group.

Mark (yes, my signature has my company name in it)
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:03 PM, john castronovo wrote:

> The alternative we offer is a super high resolution silver negative
> made
> on our LVT film recorder. We make these in large format sizes up to 80
> lines per millimeter. As the LVT is like a drum scanner, the
> negative is
> pin sharp corner to corner without falloff or flare, so a contact
> print
> should be as good as a Lambda or Lightjet print, maybe better. The
> quality of enlargements is limited only by the skill and equipment of
> the darkroom technician. We've made stunning murals from our 8x10
> negatives. Do the math and you see that 80 res equals over 2000 lpi,
> therefore a four times enlargement from an 8x10 neg winds up at 500
> lpi
> at the final size.
>
> The Ilford digital paper is a viable way to go for many people. I've
> seen the results and it's great, but anyone could enlarge our
> negatives
> in his or her own darkroom onto any paper or process they wanted to
> use
> now or in the future and that, plus the fact that there is a real
> original silver negative to archive for the future, is a huge
> consideration for many. Right now we're making these on FP4 up to 8x10
> but we're going up to 16x20 sizes soon with densities and curves
> appropriate for contact printing to alternative print processes. In
> order to help us design better solutions, I welcome all feedback.
>
> John Castronovo
> Tech Photo & Imaging

I concur with Andre's comments.  

I have given a good deal of thought to these issues, and personally am delighted with all 
things about digital output...and would never consider returning to silver.

Here are my thoughts.
1.  While great prints are a treasure, photography by it very nature is reproducable.  
Assuming we wish to be "recognized for our art", the only vehicle of recognition is this 
reproduction.  Famous folks like Ansel would not be famous if it were not for their books 
and other inexpensive reproductions.
2. The digital inkjet print is a fantastic extention of the idea of Desktop Publishing.  I find 
the prints every bit as satisfying as Silver...though others may wish to debate this.  I know 
there are still Galleries that hold Silver as the Holy Grail.
3.  Though I have been out of the Gallery scene for a long while, I assume that the barriers 
to entry are falling for digital printers.  One of the real charms in my view of digital prints 
is that they are so reproducable and relatively inexpensive.  If I were a gallery owner, I 
would like at least some measure of reasonably priced quality inventory.  Once again, 
Ansel really gained popularity and commercial success by producing huge numbers of 
quality silver prints that were made by his assistants.  This mass printing of quality prints 
is easily achieved by a good digital artist.  This is achievable in a small home studio.  
4.  I cannot image going back to the extraordinary amount of labor involved in silver 
printing.  While I loved the ambiance of a darkroom with great music, the hours involved 
to print and finish silver holds no appeal since I can now achieve different but equally 
great prints so quickly.  I prefer to spend my time photographing.    

So I do not see Eric's venture as anything but a very small and shrinking niche market.  
While I wish him luck, I have a lot of doubts about the digital to silver future business 
prospects.  I do not believe that the differences between Gelatin Silver and these new 
baryta papers are all that significant anymore.  Handing off my images to a service bureau 
just to get silver prints makes absolutely no economic or esthetic sense to me.

Phil

> 
> I wish you success on your commercial endeavor, truly for it is a
> noble art to be b&w silver printing. However this process exist for
> its intrinsyc values, just like digital b&w printing and should be
> promoted as such. Neither printing methods really replaces the other
> without any needs to cast doubts about the other printing method.
> 
> Regards,
> Andre Moreau
>

Just a note about this branch of the discussion... If you are truly
concerned about the unsolicited advertising, then no one should be
allowed to have their commercial website listed as any part of their
message. If anything on that site is for sale, then maybe those should
not be allowed.

John did take the middle ground in eliminating his contact info, but
could have gone the extra step to replace the our LVT with a/an LVT,
etc. But as it lends credibility to what he as seen produced with this
process it should still probably be allowed, otherwise it seems more
like a theory than a practice.

Just pointing something out from someone that does not have anything
in a signature and currently does not provide any kind of service.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john castronovo"
<jc@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, well it's often hard to draw the line between helpful information 
> and p/r when you're in the business of providing solutions and answers. 
> Neither Eric or myself are the only places to offer what we do, but
it's 

> clear to me from the frequent questions about it that lots of the 
> members here don't realize that such services are available and I was 
> only trying to educate by illustrating the alternatives. You'll note 
> that I refrained from adding my web site and phone number.
> 
> john c
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Savoia"
> 
> Guys, are we doing sales pitches on this e-group now? I know it is a
> great way to pass on info about digital black and white printing, but
> to me it comes across as a solicitation, something I was hoping would
> not happen in this group.
> 
> Mark (yes, my signature has my company name in it)
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Feb 28, 2009, at 12:03 PM, john castronovo wrote:
> 
> > The alternative we offer is a super high resolution silver negative
> > made
> > on our LVT film recorder. We make these in large format sizes up to 80
> > lines per millimeter. As the LVT is like a drum scanner, the
> > negative is
> > pin sharp corner to corner without falloff or flare, so a contact
> > print
> > should be as good as a Lambda or Lightjet print, maybe better. The
> > quality of enlargements is limited only by the skill and equipment of
> > the darkroom technician. We've made stunning murals from our 8x10
> > negatives. Do the math and you see that 80 res equals over 2000 lpi,
> > therefore a four times enlargement from an 8x10 neg winds up at 500
> > lpi
> > at the final size.
> >
> > The Ilford digital paper is a viable way to go for many people. I've
> > seen the results and it's great, but anyone could enlarge our
> > negatives
> > in his or her own darkroom onto any paper or process they wanted to
> > use
> > now or in the future and that, plus the fact that there is a real
> > original silver negative to archive for the future, is a huge
> > consideration for many. Right now we're making these on FP4 up to 8x10
> > but we're going up to 16x20 sizes soon with densities and curves
> > appropriate for contact printing to alternative print processes. In
> > order to help us design better solutions, I welcome all feedback.
> >
> > John Castronovo
> > Tech Photo & Imaging
>

The question now is how archival are they compared to pigment based 
prints (Eboni, of course)?

If you are talking machine processing of the silver-based, I have never 
seen one that actually does a thorough, hypo-free wash.

Just throwing questions into the ring.

Seth

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> Guys, are we doing sales pitches on this e-group now?

It doesn't bother me at all...I've learned a ton of information from
people who happen to be maybe making a buck by being innovative in
their lives, as I am, and then mentioning FOR FREE to you and me what
they have learned...and not requiring us to go to some web site and
pay extra for the details.

I find it actually refreshing that even though someone might mention
once in a while their self-promotion, I've rarely seen it done in a
distasteful way on this board.

I would encourage those friends here, not to be dissuaded by this
comment, but to continue to be innovative and creative and sharing...I
really appreciate the info on this board from anyone, whether they
happen to be gently mentioning their own angle, or not.