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Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-06 by hp9180profile

I am getting a lot of clogging and contamination between heads in an R1800 that I am using to mess around with various dilutions of PK and MK (using Glicerine,water/photoflo base) and GO in the same printer. 

I am guessing that the issues are to do with compatability as they occur after the printer has undertaken a cleaning cycle. As though the wiper is pushing gunk up into the heads.

Has anyone experienced any compatability issues with inks? 

Alistair

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Pro 7000

2009-03-06 by Mark Savoia

Don't pay more then $50 for it, it could be completely dead since you  
can not even fire it up without ink. You are probably doing him a  
favor so he does not have to find a dumpster to put it in. That  
printer is now 5 models old.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mar 6, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Peter De Smidt wrote:

> I have a chance to buy an Epson Stylus Pro 7000. There's no ink
> included, and the guy says that "one of the reds is plugged".  Might
> this make a potentially decent BW only printer?  The buyer is asking
> $400, but that seems a little high, seeing that it has no ink and
> obviously has some issues.
>

Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-06 by pr_roark

The patterns of clogging I've had with the 1800 seem to relate to having the high load MIS 7600 or MP-PK next to MK.  The MIS K4-PK seems much better in this respect.

Also, I've had a number of MIS carts develop leaks in the outlets that causes a bubble to form there.  With this air bubble above the outlet the nozzle check is often worse after a cleaning cycle -- very frustrating (and one reason that printer is moth-balled).

I've seen no evidence of clogging being caused by reactions between the simple C6 base and any of the inks we usually use.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I am getting a lot of clogging and contamination between heads in an R1800 that I am using to mess around with various dilutions of PK and MK (using Glicerine,water/photoflo base) and GO in the same printer. 
> 
> I am guessing that the issues are to do with compatability as they occur after the printer has undertaken a cleaning cycle. As though the wiper is pushing gunk up into the heads.
> 
> Has anyone experienced any compatability issues with inks? 
> 
> Alistair
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Pro 7000

2009-03-06 by amadou diallo

Even for free, this could easily turn out to be a bad deal for you.
Potentially a LOT of mileage on that model. And you've got to get it
to your place and dispose of it if it won't work. You'll be in the
hole for $ then.

-- 
amadou diallo
www.blogfiftygreatestphotos.com

Epson Stylus Pro 7000

2009-03-06 by Peter De Smidt

I have a chance to buy an Epson Stylus Pro 7000. There's no ink 
included, and the guy says that "one of the reds is plugged".  Might 
this make a potentially decent BW only printer?  The buyer is asking 
$400, but that seems a little high, seeing that it has no ink and 
obviously has some issues.

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by Gary Wagner

Paul,

I now have all of the supplies to make the HP-C6 formula that I am going to
try on my 1400. Are you finding everything still to be working ok with this
combination and see no issue with it working on a 1400? 

Thanks for your help,

Gary Wagner
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 11:45 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew
base

 

The patterns of clogging I've had with the 1800 seem to relate to having the
high load MIS 7600 or MP-PK next to MK. The MIS K4-PK seems much better in
this respect.

Also, I've had a number of MIS carts develop leaks in the outlets that
causes a bubble to form there. With this air bubble above the outlet the
nozzle check is often worse after a cleaning cycle -- very frustrating (and
one reason that printer is moth-balled).

I've seen no evidence of clogging being caused by reactions between the
simple C6 base and any of the inks we usually use.

Paul






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by pr_roark

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> I now have all of the supplies to make the HP-C6 formula that 
> I am going to try on my 1400. Are you finding everything still
> to be working ok with this combination and see no issue with 
> it working on a 1400? 

I have had HP PK in the 1400 running fine for some time.  I also run 3MK and Eb6-Y in the machine.  If I were going to run with dilute HP PK, I might limit it to PK and LK (30% PK).  If you're really into smooth an LLK (9% PK) might be valued.  Beyond that I think the ink positions may be better used for other things, like MIS Eboni, Eb6-Y, and Glop.  In short, I continue to think the HP PK based inks are probably the best blended neutral pigment inks I've used, but I also think Eboni and Eb6-Y are very good in the 1400.  (I'm still using Eboni-6 in the 7500 also.)  The 1400 is flexible enough to have just about everything in it to cover from glossy neutral to 100% carbon matte.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by hp9180profile

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Also, I've had a number of MIS carts develop leaks in the outlets that causes a bubble to form there.  With this air bubble above the outlet the nozzle check is often worse after a cleaning cycle -- very frustrating (and one reason that printer is moth-balled).
> 
> I've seen no evidence of clogging being caused by reactions between the simple C6 base and any of the inks we usually use.
> 
> Paul
> 

Thanks for that Paul. The unavailability of refillable cartridges for the R1800 that work is an enormous frustration. I have tried a few now and they either flow spontaneously and allow the ink to just drain down through the heads or they do not flow at all. 

Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400 and the wide format printers?

regards

Alistair

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by Gary Wagner

Hello,

I have been using the ones from AAA Deal Store on ebay. They come from
Lakeland FL without issue. $23.99. Arrived in two days to Calif.

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

 

Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400 and the wide format
printers?

regards

Alistair





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by Gary Wagner

Paul,

I planned on testing this first on the 1400 and then trying it on my 7600. I
was looking for the smoothest cool tone replacement for Eboni6 to use on a
variety of matte papers.  I would be using Eboni6 K and LK and four
dilutions of HP at 50%,20%,10% and 5%. in the 1400. 

Thanks, 

Gary Wagner 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew
base

 

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> I now have all of the supplies to make the HP-C6 formula that 
> I am going to try on my 1400. Are you finding everything still
> to be working ok with this combination and see no issue with 
> it working on a 1400? 

I have had HP PK in the 1400 running fine for some time. I also run 3MK and
Eb6-Y in the machine. If I were going to run with dilute HP PK, I might
limit it to PK and LK (30% PK). If you're really into smooth an LLK (9% PK)
might be valued. Beyond that I think the ink positions may be better used
for other things, like MIS Eboni, Eb6-Y, and Glop. In short, I continue to
think the HP PK based inks are probably the best blended neutral pigment
inks I've used, but I also think Eboni and Eb6-Y are very good in the 1400.
(I'm still using Eboni-6 in the 7500 also.) The 1400 is flexible enough to
have just about everything in it to cover from glossy neutral to 100% carbon
matte.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by pr_roark

"hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
>
>... The unavailability of refillable cartridges for the
> R1800 that work is an enormous frustration. ...

> Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400 
> and the wide format printers?


I thought Bob M. has had good luck with inkjetcarts.com, but their web site seems to have changed since when I first looked at it.

The MIS 1400 carts are a different type and have had no problems as far as I know.  For wide format, I think the carts are fine.  It's just the 1800 style (also used on the 220 and a number of others) that seems plagued with leaky outlets.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Pro 7000

2009-03-07 by pr_roark

> Even for free, this could easily turn out to be a bad deal for you.
...

Just to throw in the other side of the story, I'm still getting excellent service from my old 7500.  Particularly with a hextone monotone approach with very light inks, these old workhorses can still make images that look great.  I'm personally using Eboni-6 in mine and very happy with it.  Jon Cone also has some Piezo solutions that I suspect work fine in these machines.

I've also printed with only 5 jets firing and display quality images can be made with 5 channels.

Of course, if the particular machine is a high mileage one, it might, indeed, be worth less than $0.  But good samples of these older machines -- when obtained for very modest prices -- can be good economical routes to large prints.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Pro 7000

2009-03-07 by Eric Neilsen

I haven't seen the other post on this, but my 7000 is still humming along
fine. I do however use Image Print with it so the print quality is better
than most might get with just the Epson driver. It sounds like a "if you
have the time and inclination to tinker" situation by reading Paul's
response. So if you have the time.

 

 

Eric

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

 

SKYPE   ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:40 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Stylus Pro 7000

 


> Even for free, this could easily turn out to be a bad deal for you.
...

Just to throw in the other side of the story, I'm still getting excellent
service from my old 7500. Particularly with a hextone monotone approach with
very light inks, these old workhorses can still make images that look great.
I'm personally using Eboni-6 in mine and very happy with it. Jon Cone also
has some Piezo solutions that I suspect work fine in these machines.

I've also printed with only 5 jets firing and display quality images can be
made with 5 channels.

Of course, if the particular machine is a high mileage one, it might,
indeed, be worth less than $0. But good samples of these older machines --
when obtained for very modest prices -- can be good economical routes to
large prints.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by Andrew Sharpe

I've just started using the refillable cartridges for the 1400 from
http://www.printerfillingstation.com/. They look cheap, and are made in
China, but they filled up perfectly, did not leak, report their levels
to the epson software, and seem to print fine. That said, I can only
vouch for the printing of the K position, as the others are filled with
cleaning solution. I looked at inkjetcarts.com as well, and their
cartridges look nicer than the ones I bought, but their web site claims
that their chips don't report ink levels, so I decided against them.
We'll see how long the printerfillingstation cartridges last; I've only
used them for a few weeks. Doesn't MIS also have refillable carts?

Andrew
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 03/07/2009 07:39 AM, pr_roark wrote:
> 
> 
> "hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
>>
>>... The unavailability of refillable cartridges for the
>> R1800 that work is an enormous frustration. ...
> 
>> Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400
>> and the wide format printers?
> 
> I thought Bob M. has had good luck with inkjetcarts.com, but their web
> site seems to have changed since when I first looked at it.
> 
> The MIS 1400 carts are a different type and have had no problems as far
> as I know. For wide format, I think the carts are fine. It's just the
> 1800 style (also used on the 220 and a number of others) that seems
> plagued with leaky outlets.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by RobLee

try inkjetfly carts. I have no trouble with them on r1800

--- On Sat, 3/7/09, hp9180profile <owens@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: hp9180profile <owens@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 3:07 AM











    
            --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@.. .> wrote:

>

> 

> Also, I've had a number of MIS carts develop leaks in the outlets that causes a bubble to form there.  With this air bubble above the outlet the nozzle check is often worse after a cleaning cycle -- very frustrating (and one reason that printer is moth-balled) .

> 

> I've seen no evidence of clogging being caused by reactions between the simple C6 base and any of the inks we usually use.

> 

> Paul

> 



Thanks for that Paul. The unavailability of refillable cartridges for the R1800 that work is an enormous frustration. I have tried a few now and they either flow spontaneously and allow the ink to just drain down through the heads or they do not flow at all. 



Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400 and the wide format printers?



regards



Alistair




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by pr_roark

Andrew Sharpe <asharpe@...> wrote:
>
> I've just started using the refillable cartridges for the 1400 from
> http://www.printerfillingstation.com/. ...

> Doesn't MIS also have refillable carts?
 
Yes, I've been using MIS 1400 carts with success.  They are a different type than the 1800, 220, etc. that I've had trouble with.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Same ink cartridge body for different Epson printers?

2009-03-07 by Pacific New Media

Other than chip difference, I always wonder if recent Epson 6-color+ 
printer series (R220 R260 R280 R300 R320 R800 R1800 R1900 2100 2200 2400 
2880 ...) are using the same inkjet cartridge bodies.

Also Epson C64/C66/C84/C86/C120 ... using the same inkjet cartridge 
bodies, other than chip difference.

And if Epson R-family cartriege bodies, the same as C-family cartridge 
bodies, other than chip differences.

Thanks,
- Philip

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-07 by Pacific New Media

Current inkjetcarts website is at inkjetcarts.us.

Thanks, Philip

pr_roark wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> "hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
> >
> >... The unavailability of refillable cartridges for the
> > R1800 that work is an enormous frustration. ...
>
> > Are there better refillable carts available for the 1400
> > and the wide format printers?
>
> I thought Bob M. has had good luck with inkjetcarts.com, but their web 
> site seems to have changed since when I first looked at it.
>
> The MIS 1400 carts are a different type and have had no problems as 
> far as I know. For wide format, I think the carts are fine. It's just 
> the 1800 style (also used on the 220 and a number of others) that 
> seems plagued with leaky outlets.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

Re: Same ink cartridge body for different Epson printers?

2009-03-08 by Roger

I believe the carts are the same.  I've successfully used R2400 carts in a R1800 and use the same refillable carts in a R220 and R1800.

I believe the refillable R220 carts I get from MIS are usable in Cxx printers, too.

Roger

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Pacific New Media <panmedia@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Other than chip difference, I always wonder if recent Epson 6-color+ 
> printer series (R220 R260 R280 R300 R320 R800 R1800 R1900 2100 2200 2400 
> 2880 ...) are using the same inkjet cartridge bodies.
> 
> Also Epson C64/C66/C84/C86/C120 ... using the same inkjet cartridge 
> bodies, other than chip difference.
> 
> And if Epson R-family cartriege bodies, the same as C-family cartridge 
> bodies, other than chip differences.
> 
> Thanks,
> - Philip
>

Re: Same ink cartridge body for different Epson printers?

2009-03-08 by pr_roark

> Other than chip difference, I always wonder if recent Epson 6-color+ 
> printer series (R220 R260 R280 R300 R320 R800 R1800 R1900 2100 
> 2200 2400 2880 ...) are using the same inkjet cartridge bodies.
> 

The cart "families" are:

C82 = 2100/2200

C84/86/88 = R200/220/300/320 = R800/1800 (1900?) = 2400

R260 = 280  (Have not tried 1400, but it's likely the same.)

It was rather amusing to find that the C84 Yellow carts not only fit the 2400, but the yellow position chip is even the same.  My guess is they are coming off the same production line and are the same ink.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Same ink cartridge body for different Epson printers?

2009-03-08 by Pacific New Media

Thanks Paul. This is good information because I have C84/C86/R800/R1800. 
One day there might be a need to mix and match the ones I have, other 
than using the right chips.

- Philip

pr_roark wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> > Other than chip difference, I always wonder if recent Epson 6-color+
> > printer series (R220 R260 R280 R300 R320 R800 R1800 R1900 2100
> > 2200 2400 2880 ...) are using the same inkjet cartridge bodies.
> >
>
> The cart "families" are:
>
> C82 = 2100/2200
>
> C84/86/88 = R200/220/300/320 = R800/1800 (1900?) = 2400
>
> R260 = 280 (Have not tried 1400, but it's likely the same.)
>
> It was rather amusing to find that the C84 Yellow carts not only fit 
> the 2400, but the yellow position chip is even the same. My guess is 
> they are coming off the same production line and are the same ink.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-08 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Marsolais" <bob@...> wrote:
>
> My source of carts for the R1800 is www.inkjetcarts.us.  I checked it this morning and it seems to be working.  Be sure you end it with ".us, not ".com".
> 
> Bob M.
>

It definitely is working, I just ordered some empty carts for my Claria based printer to help with testing. The only thing I don't like is that I couldn't find their cleaning fluid separate from the kits, so I bought a kit for my old CX6600 to see if I can convert it to a monochrome EZ system.

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-08 by Paul Whiting

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Sharpe <asharpe@...> wrote:
>
> I've just started using the refillable cartridges for the 1400 from
> http://www.printerfillingstation.com/. They look cheap, and are made in
> China, but they filled up perfectly, did not leak, report their levels
> to the epson software, and seem to print fine. That said, I can only
> vouch for the printing of the K position, as the others are filled with
> cleaning solution.

So, you are printing in what's called "Black Only"? Does the Epson software have that opition in the print menu? I would think it would have to... that's how I print with my 220, I have Eboni in the black position and cleaning fluid in the other slots.

Paul

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-08 by robert49brake

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Whiting" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> So, you are printing in what's called "Black Only"? Does the Epson software have that opition in the print menu? I would think it would have to... that's how I print with my 220, I have Eboni in the black position and cleaning fluid in the other slots.

Paul, the 220 may have been the last Epson to have a true BO mode in its driver.  Lots of newer Epsons have no BO provision, and some, like the 1800 have a false BO (Black setting prints with gobs of blue)  Not sure about the 1400.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by Andrew Sharpe

Nope, there is no such menu option in the software; I'm instead using
QTR under wine, on Linux.

I looked very hard for a BO option in the Windows print driver menus for
the 1400, to no avail. I even tried doing an ersatz BO by setting the
print dialog to print on plain paper, grayscale, which net "wisdom"
claimed to force the print driver to do BO. It looked like it might have
been; I saw fine grain as if it was doing BO, but I can't say for sure
that it was doing it or not.

At any rate, it really isn't the way to go; QTR is much easier, if you
have the curves (which Paul has done a great job of supplying).

I could use QTR inside of my Windows virtual machine running under
VMware Workstation (that's where I run Photoshop), but it's easier and
quicker to run QTR with wine, because it isn't as resource intensive as
running a full Windows virtual machine. And QTR works quite well like
this, with very few whines (sorry) from the emulation software.

Andrew
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 03/08/2009 12:40 PM, Paul Whiting wrote:
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Andrew Sharpe
> <asharpe@...> wrote:
>>
>> I've just started using the refillable cartridges for the 1400 from
>> http://www.printerfillingstation.com/.
> <http://www.printerfillingstation.com/.> They look cheap, and are made in
>> China, but they filled up perfectly, did not leak, report their levels
>> to the epson software, and seem to print fine. That said, I can only
>> vouch for the printing of the K position, as the others are filled with
>> cleaning solution.
> 
> So, you are printing in what's called "Black Only"? Does the Epson
> software have that opition in the print menu? I would think it would
> have to... that's how I print with my 220, I have Eboni in the black
> position and cleaning fluid in the other slots.
> 
> Paul
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by Gary Wagner

Paul,

I make up the HP dilutions today at 50%, 20%, 10%, and 5%. I am using the
Eboni 6 K in the black position. 

 

Is the proper placement of dilutions as follows:

 

Eboni 6 K in black position. (100%)

Eboni 6 M in cyan position. ( I read that Eboni6 M = K4 LK. Will this work
in this placement ? )

HP 50% in Magenta position

HP 20% in LC position

HP 10% in LM position

HP 5%  in Yellow position.

 

If Eboni6 K is 100% what % is Eboni6 Magenta?

 

Thanks,

Gary Wagner 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Wagner
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:09 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew
base

 

Paul,

I planned on testing this first on the 1400 and then trying it on my 7600. I
was looking for the smoothest cool tone replacement for Eboni6 to use on a
variety of matte papers. I would be using Eboni6 K and LK and four
dilutions of HP at 50%,20%,10% and 5%. in the 1400. 

Thanks, 

Gary Wagner 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by pr_roark

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:

> I make up the HP dilutions today at 50%, 20%, 10%, and 5%. 
> I am using the Eboni 6 K in the black position. 
> 
> Is the proper placement of dilutions as follows:
>  
> Eboni 6 K in black position. (100%)
> 
> Eboni 6 M in cyan position. 

> ( I read that Eboni6 M = K4 LK. Will this work
> in this placement ? )

Eb6-M is not K4-LK.  It's about the same density as LK, but it is not glossy compatible.


> 
> HP 50% in Magenta position
> 
> HP 20% in LC position
> 
> HP 10% in LM position
> 
> HP 5%  in Yellow position.
> 
> If Eboni6 K is 100% what % is Eboni6 Magenta?

18% Eboni.

If you use QTR for printing, it doesn't matter where the inks are.

If you want to be able to use the Epson driver, the Y position is the ink that the Epson driver is able to control the easiest.  So, if the LK is your warm toner, it might be best to put it in the Y position.

On the other hand, I think it's best to have a low load ink physically next to the K in the printer so that the mostly water ink helps rinse the parking pad. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by Gary Wagner

Paul,

Thanks for the further clarification.

 

From what I understand I need to get K4 -LK so that I can use it for matte
or glossy?

 

Is K4 Matte Black Eboni-K the same at Eboni6 K or do I need to get the K4 K?
Can I use either of these with matte or glossy?

 

Thanks again,

Gary Wagner
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2009 8:38 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew
base

 

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:

> I make up the HP dilutions today at 50%, 20%, 10%, and 5%. 
> I am using the Eboni 6 K in the black position. 
> 
> Is the proper placement of dilutions as follows:
> 
> Eboni 6 K in black position. (100%)
> 
> Eboni 6 M in cyan position. 

> ( I read that Eboni6 M = K4 LK. Will this work
> in this placement ? )

Eb6-M is not K4-LK. It's about the same density as LK, but it is not glossy
compatible.

> 
> HP 50% in Magenta position
> 
> HP 20% in LC position
> 
> HP 10% in LM position
> 
> HP 5% in Yellow position.
> 
> If Eboni6 K is 100% what % is Eboni6 Magenta?

18% Eboni.

If you use QTR for printing, it doesn't matter where the inks are.

If you want to be able to use the Epson driver, the Y position is the ink
that the Epson driver is able to control the easiest. So, if the LK is your
warm toner, it might be best to put it in the Y position.

On the other hand, I think it's best to have a low load ink physically next
to the K in the printer so that the mostly water ink helps rinse the parking
pad. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Compatability between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by hp9180profile

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, RobLee <roblee007@...> wrote:
>
> try inkjetfly carts. I have no trouble with them on r1800
> 

Thanks Rob and others who have suggested inkjetfly carts. I have ordered a set and will let you know how I get on with them. 

regards

Alistair

[Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-09 by pr_roark

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:

 
> 
> From what I understand I need to get K4 -LK so that I can 
> use it for matte or glossy?

Yes.
 
> Is K4 Matte Black Eboni-K the same at Eboni6 K 

Yes, and Eboni is not glossy compatible.

You'll need a PK or use Crane Silver Rag with the 50% HP-PK at 100% QTR ink load for a 2.4 dmax.  All the other glossy papers I've tested with the 50% HP PK can't exceed 1.9 dmax.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Digital BW] Re: Same ink cartridge body for different Epson printers?

2009-03-09 by Josef Pollak

Thanks Paul 
What about the Epson R2880 ? You did'nt confirm this in your answer below. This would be interesting since I have a number of empty cartridges....

Kind regards to you all
Josef




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Pacific New Media <panmedia@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks Paul. This is good information because I have C84/C86/R800/R1800. 
> One day there might be a need to mix and match the ones I have, other 
> than using the right chips.
> 
> - Philip
> 
> pr_roark wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Other than chip difference, I always wonder if recent Epson 6-color+
> > > printer series (R220 R260 R280 R300 R320 R800 R1800 R1900 2100
> > > 2200 2400 2880 ...) are using the same inkjet cartridge bodies.
> > >
> >
> > The cart "families" are:
> >
> > C82 = 2100/2200
> >
> > C84/86/88 = R200/220/300/320 = R800/1800 (1900?) = 2400
> >
> > R260 = 280 (Have not tried 1400, but it's likely the same.)
> >
> > It was rather amusing to find that the C84 Yellow carts not only fit 
> > the 2400, but the yellow position chip is even the same. My guess is 
> > they are coming off the same production line and are the same ink.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-17 by Gary Wagner

Paul,

Does  K4-PK  have the same archival properties as Eboni K? 

Thanks,

Gary Wagner
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 8:18 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew
base

 

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:

> 
> From what I understand I need to get K4 -LK so that I can 
> use it for matte or glossy?

Yes.

> Is K4 Matte Black Eboni-K the same at Eboni6 K 

Yes, and Eboni is not glossy compatible.

You'll need a PK or use Crane Silver Rag with the 50% HP-PK at 100% QTR ink
load for a 2.4 dmax. All the other glossy papers I've tested with the 50% HP
PK can't exceed 1.9 dmax.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Compatibility between MK, PK, GO and home brew base

2009-03-17 by pr_roark

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:

> Does  K4-PK  have the same archival properties as Eboni K? 

In my tests, the 2 carbon inks seem to be very close to equal.  In the long run, I'd guess that Eboni would have a slight advantage.  This is because I believe it uses a larger particle size.  But, both are 100% carbon from what I've been told, and the results of my fade testing are consistent with this.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by Bob Frost

I thought some of you might be interested in this post by Elena on the 
EpsonWideFormat list (copied with her permission).

There's more on that list.

Bob Frost.



"Dear all,
I would share this experience with you. It definitely looks like
compatible inks really can cause some level of degradation to the
printer head precision.

This experience concerns MIS inks, but there's no reason to think
it shouldn't affect other non-Epson inks in general!
This experience also concerns a 4800 but, again, there's no reason
to think it should affect it only, indeed!

The story:

My just bought, second hand (but like brand new) 4800 was still using
the ink remaining in its original epson carts. All nozzles was firing
perfectly straight. Btw, it's hard you can notice deflected nozzles by
mean of the standard nozzle test pattern offered by the printer panel or
driver: it just puts in evidence that a nozzle is firing or not, roughly.
Only a special, straight nozzle test (I can do that since I'm a
developer, or just try the ones available from the service mode) can
show how effectly good and straight the nozzles are firing.

Now after months of work, I finally accomplished the goal I had posed:
to totally unlock it, disabling ink monitor and mtnk monitor (and I
thus could notice that effectively there's still about half the ink
remaining in the carts when the printer judges it's out ;)

So I finally installed my CIS, which I filled with InkSupply's MIS K4 inks.
I usually go with them since I was always good with their inks, and
they have a quite good reputation and reasonable prices.
Once the printer was properly purged and primed with the new inks,
the first nozzle check started showing an high percentage of deflected
nozzles! At first I thought of some air, partial blockage or so on,
it's normal enough when doing this kind of jobs. But after some cleaning
cycles I noticed absolutely no changes to the results. Again, remember
that a normal nozzle test would never show the problem so well as a
"straight" nozzle test does:

 http://www.elenadomain.it/pub/NozzleCheckBad.png

[Note that deflection (horizontal darker or lighter lines) is most
 noticeable in darker inks but under scanner inspection it affects pretty
 all the channels - LLK is not present in the test because I actually use
 it for other purposes ]

Even if deflection effectively does cause some level of degradation in the
print quality, the plain users _might_ not perceive it so much because of
the stochastic screens used by the standard epson driver. But just use a
regular screen, or a microweaving mode previledging speed vs. quality,
and you will notice it well. And it is, definitely, not a good thing.

But I, as a crazy tech, hacker and programmer, planned and found a solution
to fix the problem!
I know that (at least) Epson heads are calibrated at factory level against
the little and unavoidable manufacturing defects. Calibration is obviously
made using the Epson inks intended for that head, and it comes out in the
form of a so called Head Rank ID - without going deep in details, those
well known codes you have to enter when you replace a printer head.
All stuff undocumented and kept well secret as usual - but the concepts
behind the code at least are documented in some patents assigned to Epson.

Compatible ink manufacturers try to make their liquids as compatible as
they can to the originals as for rheology (and visual aspects, of course)
but they will never be AS the originals. So, it's unavoidable that a
head calibrated with a particular ink won't perform as good with a
liquid having different characteristics. The proof that my problem was
not definitely caused by an instant nozzle fault or clog is simple:
I purged a line and filled it back with the previous Epson ink: all
deflections in that channel disappeared! Note well, this experience
does affect MIS inks and the 4800, but I really have no reason to
think it shouldn't be a quite general rule! May be that inks from
another manufacturer, perhaps more expensive, are less prone to this issue.

Then, the solution was obvious: tweaking the head rank id to match the
caractheristics of the new inks. How to do that is perhaps over the
scope of this posting, which is intended to be a FACT TO SPREAD and
NOT A TUTORIAL. And it's unfortunately not a job for any people, it's
strong, heavy technical stuff.

After some attempts and trials and errors I could identify what seems
to be the parameter for the correction strenght. I brought it to an
higher value and here's the result:

 http://www.elenadomain.it/pub/NozzleCheckGood.png

nozzles fire perfectly straight again, now!

I hope my story have been of some interest.
Bye
/&"

Re: [Digital BW] Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by Gary Weaver

I dream of having a interface to the epson setup program along the lines of the SSC service utility  :  )

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 3/18/2009 at 4:32 PM Bob Frost wrote:

>I thought some of you might be interested in this post by Elena on the 
>EpsonWideFormat list (copied with her permission).
>
>There's more on that list.
>
>Bob Frost.

Re: Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by Tyler Boley

of course this is very interesting, and the effort impressive. But I have to say it's a big leap to say that this single experience is indicative of 3rd party inks in general.
Epson loves this stuff.
This list is full of 3rd party ink users with many years of experience, certainly if problems of this kind were frequent we'd know about it here.
I've been using specialty monochromatic ink sets for many years, those I use now for about 7 years, with no printer performance problems related to the ink whatsoever.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Frost" <bob@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I thought some of you might be interested in this post by Elena on the 
> EpsonWideFormat list (copied with her permission).
> 
> There's more on that list.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 
> 
> 
> "Dear all,
> I would share this experience with you. It definitely looks like
> compatible inks really can cause some level of degradation to the
> printer head precision....

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by Walker Blackwell

I have used 3rd party inks since 2002 with no problems. Maybe there  
are a few out there that have the wrong surface tension, viscosity,  
etc, but 3rd generation Cone inks are pretty damn clog-free. I would  
say even less clogs than Epson K3 with the 4800s and way better than  
the old Ultrachrome in the 9600s. Both Color and Monochrome sets.

Of course, when you run 10 30x40s a day for 3 years you see a lot of  
pressure problems, but I would say all of the 3rd party inks I've used  
have stacked up well against Ultrachrome. I've used both about evenly.

Walker

[Digital BW] Re: Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by Greg

I would say that I'm not at all surprised that there was a difference between the inks. I  bet you even get differences like this between different batches of Epson inks.

As I understand it, the HEAD ID tells the processor how high the drive voltage should be for pigment or dye ink (remember back when you had a choice) and probably the frequency of the pulses (or maybe duty cycle) to drive the piezo. Both of these things will change the way a certain ink will spray, and of course small variations in surface tension, viscosity, and probably about a dozen other factors will affect the spray pattern.

Also this should be no surprise as I thought this info about head ID was known way back when people were putting different inks in the 1120 and 1200 printers. I seem to recall a little talk about fixing issues by changing the values in the ID string.

I'm not real concerned.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by RobLee

I don't seem to have any problem with OCP inks here on R1800.

--- On Wed, 3/18/09, Greg <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Greg <dfaprinting@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Use of 3rdparty inks
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 2:52 PM











    
            



I would say that I'm not at all surprised that there was a difference between the inks. I  bet you even get differences like this between different batches of Epson inks.



As I understand it, the HEAD ID tells the processor how high the drive voltage should be for pigment or dye ink (remember back when you had a choice) and probably the frequency of the pulses (or maybe duty cycle) to drive the piezo. Both of these things will change the way a certain ink will spray, and of course small variations in surface tension, viscosity, and probably about a dozen other factors will affect the spray pattern.



Also this should be no surprise as I thought this info about head ID was known way back when people were putting different inks in the 1120 and 1200 printers. I seem to recall a little talk about fixing issues by changing the values in the ID string.



I'm not real concerned.




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Use of 3rdparty inks

2009-03-18 by pr_roark

"Bob Frost" <bob@...> wrote:

> I thought some of you might be interested in this 
> post by Elena on the EpsonWideFormat list ...

Yes, thanks for the information -- to both Bob and Elena.

Elena wrote: 

> >  It definitely looks like compatible inks really can cause 
> > some level of degradation to the printer head precision.

No doubt some inks are better matched to the printer than others.  I expect the OEM to do a good job.

> > Only a special, straight nozzle test ... can
> > show how effectly good and straight the nozzles are firing.

I examine real prints at 1600 dpi.  One example is at  
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf at page 10.
 
> > ... installed my CIS, which I filled with InkSupply's MIS K4 inks.
> > ... Once the printer was properly purged and primed ...
> > the first nozzle check started showing an high percentage 
> > of deflected nozzles! ...
> > after some cleaning cycles I noticed absolutely no changes to
> >  the results. 

So, it sounds like with a normal nozzle check there was some 
evidence of the problem.

> > Again, remember that a normal nozzle test would never show 
> > the problem so well as a "straight" nozzle test does:
> 
> > http://www.elenadomain.it/pub/NozzleCheckBad.png

A subsequent Wide Format post noted the posted images were a 
1" swath the size of the 4800 head.

When I take these images into PS and look at "Image Size," if 1 inch is set as the Height it appears the Resolution is 637.

So, I re-sampled my 1600 dpi scans to 637.  I've poseted a screen grab of a scan of test of Carbon-6 in a 2200.  See 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/NozzleCheck-comparison.jpg 

The scan is gray scale; the ink shown from Elena's scans was that on the right -- I suppose the LK position.

Of course in my test print there are multiple channels firing, but the scans of the ends of my test strip where only the light and dark inks are firing look about the same.  Nonetheless, I often do see occassional microbanded patches, particularly where one one reasonable dense ink is printing.  If this artifact can be reduced, it might well improve the final image.

(I'm suspicious I'm not making a good comparison here.  If someone sees an error in my math or approach, let me/us know.  I'd like to be able to compare the significance of the scans to the inks and workflows I actually use.) 

> >  I, as a ... programmer, planned and found a solution
> > to fix the problem!

Excellent, I hope this is going to be posted somewhere.  If there is public information that individuals can use to improve their workflows, I don't see that it's a problem pointing us in that direction.

In a subsequent post, US patent 6,984,010 Jan 10,2006 was noted.  I'll take a look at that later.

> > ... Epson heads are calibrated at factory level against
> > the little and unavoidable manufacturing defects. 
> > Calibration is obviously made using the Epson inks ...
> > it comes out in the form of a so called Head Rank ID - 
> > ... codes you have to enter when you replace a printer head...

Yes, I've heard an Epson service person say about the same thing.

> >  but the concepts behind the code at least are documented 
> > in some patents assigned to Epson.

An explanation of the content of patents would seem to be innocuous and part of what is expected from publishing them.  That's part of the deal -- the quid quo pro of a legally granted and temporary monopoly.
 
> > Compatible ink manufacturers try to make their liquids 
> > as compatible as they can to the originals as for rheology ...
> > but they will never be AS the originals. 

The OEM inks also vary from one to the other in terms of  
compositions and rheologies.  One nice thing about Epson 
piezo heads is that they are relatively tolerant of minor differences.

It's not easy to measure, but one difference I see that produces 
results similar to these is the mix of surfactants.  This affects not 
only apparent deflection by the head but also how the ink penetrates 
the paper.  I think the OEMs probably are a bit ahead in these parts of the formulas.  Whether a third party ink is still OK may depend on the printer and other variables.  Speed of printing and droplet size seem to affect the smoothness issue.

> > So, it's unavoidable that a head calibrated with a particular 
> > ink won't perform as good with a liquid having different 
> > characteristics. 

I don't think it is "unavoidable" that one ink will not perform as well as another.  If the ink is within the parameters of the head, as calibrated, then that ink should be able to perform as well.  Unless Epson is having the ink cartridge chip-related software intentionally sabotage third party inks (and I'd like to see the new administration handle that case) I see no reason a third party ink could not match all the relevant parameters and work as well or better than OEM inks, which themselves vary.

> >  the solution was obvious: tweaking the head rank id to match 
> > the caractheristics of the new inks. 

That's one solution.  

Another approach is to make inks that work well in the first place.

> > How to do that is perhaps over the scope of this posting, ...

Again, I do hope this calibration procedure is posted and explained by Elena.  I think it could be a significant contribution.

> > ... it's unfortunately not a job for any people, it's
> > strong, heavy technical stuff.

No doubt.

> > After some attempts and trials and errors I could identify 
> > what seems to be the parameter for the correction strenght.
> >  I brought it to an higher value and here's the result:
> 
> > http://www.elenadomain.it/pub/NozzleCheckGood.png
> 
> > nozzles fire perfectly straight again, now!
> 
> > I hope my story have been of some interest.

Definitely.

Thanks.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Tried OCP dye inks made for HP Gray cartridges

2009-03-19 by Pacific New Media

I need a B&W solution for printing on glossy material. Recently I tried 
some third party inks made by OCP (German?) in a spare Epson C120 
printer with refillable cartridges from inkjetcarts.us. The ink is made 
for refilling  HP 59 /100 gray cartridges.

Quadtone QTR does not support Epson C120 so I have to fine tune the 
prints via Photoshop. It is not as flexiable as QTR but can be done.

The refillable cartridges are bought from inkjetcarts.us. I bought two 
sets to be sure at least one set is working. It was a correct decision 
because the first set was damaged. The second set works but if there is 
a better choice I would choose the other type of refillable cartridges. 
This kind of cartridges from inkjetcrts.us has to be putting or taken 
out of printer at the same time as a whole set just like a CISS setup. 
If one does not work I guess the whole set is gone. Not a really 
flexible design and not recommended. But I cannot find other C120 
refillable cartridges - if anyone has a good lead please let me know.

Epson C120 is a CMYK 4 color printer. The clone (OCP) ink for HP  gray 
cartridges has only three shades. I  mixed two weaker gray  as a new 
shade. So  K position gets the Black ink, Cyan position gets dark gray, 
Magenta  position gets  (1/2 dark gray + 1/2 light gray). Yellow 
position gets light gray. The 21 step wedges printout is in a good order 
from black to white other than I cannot get a deep black after play 
around the settings like photoshop level, contrast, or change to Dot 
Gain 30%. Finally I darkened the printout by moving Photoshop level bar 
(mid value) to 0.65 as a final acceptable working setting. Still it 
leaves a lot to be desired. I really liked Image Specialist/MIS/...'s 
Ebony matte back ink.

My question is: can I use Ebony as black and make three gray ink as 
following:

Black position:     matte black ink from image specialist (Ebony from MIS)
Cyan position:   dye black (OCP)
Magenta position:   dark gray (OCP)
Yellow position:  light gray (OCP)

Will MIS Ebony matte black ink mixed with dye gray ink cause any problem?

- Philip

Re: Tried OCP dye inks made for HP Gray cartridges

2009-03-19 by pr_roark

Philip wrote:
>
> I need a B&W solution for printing on glossy material. 
> Recently I tried some third party inks made by OCP (German?)
> in a spare Epson C120...

> My question is: can I use Ebony as black and make three gray ink as 
> following:
> 
> Black position:     matte black ink from image specialist (Ebony from MIS)
> Cyan position:   dye black (OCP)
> Magenta position:   dark gray (OCP)
> Yellow position:  light gray (OCP)
> 
> Will MIS Ebony matte black ink mixed with dye gray ink cause 
> any problem?

Eboni is for matte paper only.  It is not appropriate for glossy paper.

Also, we had trouble with Eboni mixing with residual dyes back when 1280s were being used for B&W.  Eboni appeared to be sensitive to at least the Epson dye formula.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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