Digital BW, The Print

I have my Epson 1400 in an ink arrangment I'm calling "NC2" -- Neutral, Carbon, version 2.  It combines the various approaches I've been using lately.  It has 2 Eboni positions for 100% carbon, fairly neutral matte paper printing, at least on some paper; dilute 2% Eboni for very smooth 100% carbon highlights; and HP Z3100 Vivera PK neutral carbon-based, but blended pigment, as well as an LK version of this (30% HP PK), for glossy printing, with Glop for taking care of the bronzing.  The HP pigments are also there to help with neutral matte printing for the wide variety of papers that print with warm tones with just carbon is used.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf 

Combining these MIS carbon inks with the high tech HP neutral grey pigments should result in about the most stable neutral range prints possible.

While this is a work in progrss, the various components have been used by me for some time. While I mix my own 2% Eboni and 30% HP-PK, these are available as MIS Eboni-6-Y and HP Vivera LK, respectively. So, no ink mixing is necessarily needed for this approach, but some cartridge filling will have to be done by the user.  I've had very good luck with MIS cartridges for the 1400.  The glop and Eboni are available pre-loaded from MIS in the UT14 set.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

Do you have any profiles available for the HP-C6,  50,20,10,5 %, 1/30/09?

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:02 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] "1400 NC2" inkset approach

 

I have my Epson 1400 in an ink arrangment I'm calling "NC2" -- Neutral,
Carbon, version 2. It combines the various approaches I've been using
lately. It has 2 Eboni positions for 100% carbon, fairly neutral matte paper
printing, at least on some paper; dilute 2% Eboni for very smooth 100%
carbon highlights; and HP Z3100 Vivera PK neutral carbon-based, but blended
pigment, as well as an LK version of this (30% HP PK), for glossy printing,
with Glop for taking care of the bronzing. The HP pigments are also there to
help with neutral matte printing for the wide variety of papers that print
with warm tones with just carbon is used.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf 

Combining these MIS carbon inks with the high tech HP neutral grey pigments
should result in about the most stable neutral range prints possible.

While this is a work in progrss, the various components have been used by me
for some time. While I mix my own 2% Eboni and 30% HP-PK, these are
available as MIS Eboni-6-Y and HP Vivera LK, respectively. So, no ink mixing
is necessarily needed for this approach, but some cartridge filling will
have to be done by the user. I've had very good luck with MIS cartridges for
the 1400. The glop and Eboni are available pre-loaded from MIS in the UT14
set.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> Do you have any profiles available for the HP-C6,  
> 50,20,10,5 %, 1/30/09?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gary Wagner

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R220-K6.zip is a copy of my QTR Profiles folder that I used for this ink setup.  I make no guarantees as to what all is in it, but maybe it'll help.

My 220 is just sitting now.  I got frustrated with the leaky carts.  (Ditto my 1800.)  After sitting a month with the C6 HP dilutions, all nozzles were perfect on the 220 with the various HP dilutions except the 50% dilution.  But that cart had given me the most trouble with leaking anyway.  So, that test was inconclusive.  Avoiding those MIS carts was one reason I've moved the dilute HP ink test over to the 1400.  I'll live with the 30% HP PK for a while there to be sure it's OK.  So far, everyone who has tested this approach is finding it working, but time will tell.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I've made a minor update of my PDF, below, to make clear that this is a modification of UT14 (but with a different name to avoid confusion).
 
See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf 

While I currently use HP Z3100 Pk pigment as my cool ink source, MIS UT14-C is almost identical to it.  For example, in draw-down tests on EEM, the Lab (L, A, B) readings for the HP PK are (24, 1, -1.1).  For the MIS UT14-C, the readings are (25, 2, -1.1).  Both of these are diluted the same amount to make the LC versions.  So, for most uses, the results would be the essentially the same if MIS inks were used in all positions.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

As you are doing many tests on the 1400 with many variations of ink are you
taking your refillable cartridges and just washing them out with water
between inks changes or do you have some other procedure that you would
recommend? I was thinking about a CIS as it would be convenient  to change
or empty the bottle but then there would still  be the ink in the lines that
would need to be emptied. 

Thanks,

Gary Wagner

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:17 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: "1400 NC2" inkset approach - UT14 modification

 


I've made a minor update of my PDF, below, to make clear that this is a
modification of UT14 (but with a different name to avoid confusion).

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gary Wagner" <gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Paul,
> 
> As you are doing many tests on the 1400 with many 
> variations of ink are you taking your refillable 
> cartridges and just washing them out with water
> between inks changes ...

Yes.  I use distilled water to wash our re-fillable 1400 carts.  If the next ink is very dilute, I'll just leave it at that or maybe use a bit of C6 base to do a final rinse.  If the next ink is dense, I'll use a little of it to rinse out the water and avoid the residual water from having any significant impact on the printing density.

> I was thinking about a CIS as it would be convenient  to change
> or empty the bottle but then there would still be the ink in
> the lines that would need to be emptied. 

CIS's are harder to clean out.  I've done it, but it's not recommended.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

To update this approach, I've found that I simply don't need any more than the HP PK for glossy printing for what I do.  The 1400 with HP PK in black only mode, with QTR, is just fine quality and tone wise, and BO keeps the artifacts under control better. For the glossy brochures I don't need 100% carbon.

However, my serious prints remain 100% carbon (Eboni) on matte paper.

So, I've gone to 2-Eboni-MK, 2-Eb2%, and 2-HP-PK in the 1400.  The only inks I need to buy and keep for this 1400 setup are the high density, relatively economical (more image area per dollar) MK and PK inks.  2% Eboni can be purchased (Eboni-6 Y position), but I mix C6b base for mine.  Carts need to be changed less and it's easier -- only 3 inks.

Very simply profiles and the QTR sliders seem to be all I need with this setup -- almost too easy to be any fun.  It actually leaves some time for photography.

(Epson, I'm still waiting for my 24" 1.5 pl printer.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
> I have my Epson 1400 in an ink arrangment I'm calling "NC2" -- 
> ...
> See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf

I'll document what I'm doing with this latest approach at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC3.pdf 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

"pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:

>
> To update this approach, I've found that I simply don't need any more than the HP PK for glossy printing for what I do.  The 1400 with HP PK in black only mode, with QTR, is just fine quality and tone wise, and BO keeps the artifacts under control better. For the glossy brochures I don't need 100% carbon.
> 
> However, my serious prints remain 100% carbon (Eboni) on matte paper.
> 
> So, I've gone to 2-Eboni-MK, 2-Eb2%, and 2-HP-PK in the 1400.  The only inks I need to buy and keep for this 1400 setup are the high density, relatively economical (more image area per dollar) MK and PK inks.  2% Eboni can be purchased (Eboni-6 Y position), but I mix C6b base for mine.  Carts need to be changed less and it's easier -- only 3 inks.
> 
> Very simply profiles and the QTR sliders seem to be all I need with this setup -- almost too easy to be any fun.  It actually leaves some time for photography.
> ...

> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@> wrote:
> >
> > I have my Epson 1400 in an ink arrangment I'm calling "NC2" -- 
> > ...
> > See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC2.pdf
>

pr_roark schreef:
> To update this approach, I've found that I simply don't need any more than the HP PK for glossy printing for what I do.  The 1400 with HP PK in black only mode, with QTR, is just fine quality and tone wise, and BO keeps the artifacts under control better. For the glossy brochures I don't need 100% carbon.
> 
> However, my serious prints remain 100% carbon (Eboni) on matte paper.
> 
> So, I've gone to 2-Eboni-MK, 2-Eb2%, and 2-HP-PK in the 1400.  The only inks I need to buy and keep for this 1400 setup are the high density, relatively economical (more image area per dollar) MK and PK inks.  2% Eboni can be purchased (Eboni-6 Y position), but I mix C6b base for mine.  Carts need to be changed less and it's easier -- only 3 inks.
> 
> Very simply profiles and the QTR sliders seem to be all I need with this setup -- almost too easy to be any fun.  It actually leaves some time for photography.
> 
> (Epson, I'm still waiting for my 24" 1.5 pl printer.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 

Paul,

The Eboni 2%, what spot would it take in a quad setup ?

I'm interested in a similar A4 B&W printer, in the EU it will be the 
R285 with 1.5 pl but using HP Vivera MK + PK + LGrey ? inks in it.
The same way you mention. Choices for Vivera grey ink are just two. QTR 
probably doesn't have a driver for it but there might be a US A4 driver 
equivalent that copes.

The printer is at 80 Euro, feeding it with leftover ink of the Z models 
must be possible, though they drain the carts down to a few ML.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
> > ...

> The Eboni 2%, what spot would it take in a quad setup?

I have them in the LM and LC spots.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-NC3.pdf Having them in these light positions allows the Epson driver to work with the inkset.  These positions are between the 2 Eboni and 2 HP-PK spots in the 1400, but I'm not sure those inks need to be separated.  I had Eboni and HPPK next to each other in the NC2 setup, and there was never a clog.

> I'm interested in a similar A4 B&W printer, in the EU it will 
> be the R285 with 1.5 pl but using HP Vivera MK + PK + LGrey ? 
> inks in it.  The same way you mention. Choices for Vivera grey
> ink are just two. 

I assume the 285 can do a good job.  My 1400 is better than my 260, which I suspect is about the same as the 285.

> QTR probably doesn't have a driver for it ...

The 260 works with QTR.

> The printer is at 80 Euro, feeding it with leftover ink of 
> the Z models must be possible, though they drain the carts 
> down to a few ML.

That sounds like it could work fine -- a way to salvage otherwise wasted ink.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

When setting up QTR with two eboni black positions, how do you compare densities in the calibration print?  Are the desities for both of these positions set to 100?

Thanks,
Earl

"esharamaki" <esharamaki@...> wrote:
>
> When setting up QTR with two eboni black positions, 
> how do you compare densities in the calibration print?  
> Are the desities for both of these positions set to 100?

With this and some other inksets, it's best to make 2 or more separate profiles and then combine them with the QTR sliders.  

I don't think QTR can handle 2 inks of the same density with its automatic partitioning routine.  However, what I've done with inksets that have multiple channels of the same ink is to profile with only one and then copy that curve one over to the second identical ink, cutting the ink load in half for both.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thanks Paul, I'll give this a shot.