Digital BW, The Print

Greetings,

I'm trying to keep the standard ink set in my R800, print in B&W using QTR on Epson Luster paper using the Photo Black ink.

I only see profiles for Matte Black ink and Matte paper.

Can anyone direct me to curves others have made or a simple way to use the Curve Creator in QTR to modify an exsisting curve?

Thanks, Terry

Dear Terry:

A gentleman named Matt Chapin has produced a nice set of profiles for luster paper.  You will need to join the QTR group.  Once in, you can go to files, profiles and they will be there. 

P.S.  I have also had good luck with the Costco Glossy paper using the profiles. 

Good Luck

"firstlight2001" <TerryGls@...> wrote:

> I'm trying to keep the standard ink set in my R800, print in B&W using QTR on Epson Luster paper using the Photo Black ink.
> ...
> Can anyone direct me to ... a simple way to use the Curve Creator in QTR to modify an exsisting curve?

I don't use that inkset, but it ought to be easy to profile a PK + toner setup.  See p.5 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eb6-PKN.pdf for some notes on making profiles with QTR.

If you just have the PK as the only gray ink, density 100, QTR will make a "black only" type of curve.  It's a little closer to linear if you hold back the ink limit and put the ultimate one in the Black Boost.  It'll put a steeper slope on the black ink (or whatever one is the "gray" ink with density 100).  Set up cyan and blue as the 2 toners. If you want them to go all the way to the black, have their density be 100.  A lower density tells the program to turn the in down at the end.  Use the ink limits of the toners to control the final tone.

This will work but you might have banding with the R800 and only the PK with toners.  Trying to get good neutral B&W prints from the R800 with the full color inkset being used is probably a hopeless task.

Good luck.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

You might try starting with a matte paper and the stock QTR curves or printing on Luster using standard color profiles.  It's what I do.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "firstlight2001" <TerryGls@...> wrote:

>
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm trying to keep the standard ink set in my R800, print in B&W using QTR on Epson Luster paper using the Photo Black ink.
> 
> I only see profiles for Matte Black ink and Matte paper.
> 
> Can anyone direct me to curves others have made or a simple way to use the Curve Creator in QTR to modify an exsisting curve?
> 
> Thanks, Terry
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Tochterman" <alantochterman@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Terry:
> 
> A gentleman named Matt Chapin has produced a nice set of profiles for luster paper.  You will need to join the QTR group.  Once in, you can go to files, profiles and they will be there. 
> 
> P.S.  I have also had good luck with the Costco Glossy paper using the profiles. 
> 
> Good Luck
>

Paul, Roger & Alan,

Thanks for your responses.  I have downloaded Matt's curve for Pearl paper and printed 6 variations with great BxW tones (warm, cool, with and w/o gloss, etc) on my Epson Luster thinking this may be close and I could modify his curves.  

Two issues: 1) I get very heavy bronzing in all cases and 2)when I open Curve Creator and try to open an existing profile, I get an Ink Descriptor File Error Window that has various entries like Error in Ink Descriptor in Line 95 and up to 7 or 8 of these type of line items...when I close out this window nothing loads up.  I've tried many profiles to open and always the same...the rest of QTR works fine...so is this a bug or am I missing something?

I agree the R800 is not great for B&W, but I prefer a warm tone print and am able to get some nice results with duotone or curves or H/S/L settings.

I'll try Paul's suggestion on setting up a curve from scratch as well.

I want to learn QTR also for a future printer and making inkjet digital negatives.

Thanks again, Terry

> Two issues: 1) I get very heavy bronzing in all cases and 

Run a second pass through the printer of GO only. Just print a pure black file with a curve that uses only GO with a limit of somewhere between 10% and 40%. Do not worry about the curve shape as you are only using the pure black end. You may get some pizza wheel marks but this should (at least partially) address the bronzing issue and should bump your dmax. The R1800 inkset is a stinker for bronzing. The MIS inkset is much better in this regard. But the MIS inkset bands on the R1800 where only one ink is used whereas the OEM inkset does not (in my experience).

Best, Alistair

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
>
>  
> > Two issues: 1) I get very heavy bronzing in all cases and 
> 
> Run a second pass through the printer of GO only. Just print a pure black file with a curve that uses only GO with a limit of somewhere between 10% and 40%. Do not worry about the curve shape as you are only using the pure black end. You may get some pizza wheel marks but this should (at least partially) address the bronzing issue and should bump your dmax. The R1800 inkset is a stinker for bronzing. The MIS inkset is much better in this regard. But the MIS inkset bands on the R1800 where only one ink is used whereas the OEM inkset does not (in my experience).
> 
> Best, Alistair
>
Alistair,

Thanks for the suggestion, I think I understand.

Are you saying after my first pass printing with PK ink to run the same paper thru the printer with a Gloss Only limit of 10 to 40%?

I have printed the PK only ink with an initial 60% limit, then 50%...both too much ink coverage...but maybe I need a curve... then 40%...still no curve but the coverage looks pretty good...then I did a 35% PK and a Gloss of 40%...this should give the same results as your suggestion...in all cases the bronzing seems about the same...very "bronzed"...but the tone of the PK is very nice for what I like.

The only thing I noticed when I printed out my inkseperation file is I had it set on Photo instead of Matte which I've some say to use Matte when printing out even for glossy/luster paper. This should not make a difference, I would think.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "firstlight2001" <TerryGls@...> wrote:
> 
> Are you saying after my first pass printing with PK ink to run the same paper thru the printer with a Gloss Only limit of 10 to 40%?
>
Not quite. Yes, run the same print through the printer again, but do not print the same file. Print a file filled with pure black (create one in photoshop). That way you get an even coat of GO over the whole image. The way you are doing it only gives GO in the dark and mid tones of your image. For the GO curve, just go into the QTR curve creation tool and make a curve with using only GL for the gray ink. Set the limit at 20. Name and save it with an appropriate name (GL20). Then make a couple more curves GL10 and GL40. Then try printing your black-filled file over the top of your already printed image using the GL20 curve. You can also try with the GL10 and GL40 curves to see if any of it deals with your bronzing problem. You can print over the top of your image 3 or 4 times to build up GL to see if helps. Try it, you may not like the effect and it may not get rid of bronzing.  

> I have printed the PK only ink with an initial 60% limit, then 50%...both too much ink coverage...but maybe I need a curve... then 40%...still no curve but the coverage looks pretty good...then I did a 35% PK and a Gloss of 40%...this should give the same results as your suggestion...in all cases the bronzing seems about the same...very "bronzed"...but the tone of the PK is very nice for what I like.
> 
Those sound like quite low ink limits. Have you read the QTR guide or help file to see how to set the ink limit? If not and if you do not have a spectro, just assume an appropriate ink limit of 75%. So to print your image just use the curve creation tool to make a curve using only the pk as the gray ink with a default limit of 75%. Print a radial gradient to see how linear the printer is (here are some suitable files http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/black_and_white_test.html) If there are noticeable steps in the gradient then your printer needs linearisation. You will need a spectro to linearise or Paul has a method on his website using a scanner.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "firstlight2001" <TerryGls@> wrote:
> > 
> > Are you saying after my first pass printing with PK ink to run the same paper thru the printer with a Gloss Only limit of 10 to 40%?
> >
> Not quite. Yes, run the same print through the printer again, but do not print the same file. Print a file filled with pure black (create one in photoshop). That way you get an even coat of GO over the whole image. The way you are doing it only gives GO in the dark and mid tones of your image. For the GO curve, just go into the QTR curve creation tool and make a curve with using only GL for the gray ink. Set the limit at 20. Name and save it with an appropriate name (GL20). Then make a couple more curves GL10 and GL40. Then try printing your black-filled file over the top of your already printed image using the GL20 curve. You can also try with the GL10 and GL40 curves to see if any of it deals with your bronzing problem. You can print over the top of your image 3 or 4 times to build up GL to see if helps. Try it, you may not like the effect and it may not get rid of bronzing.  
> 
> > I have printed the PK only ink with an initial 60% limit, then 50%...both too much ink coverage...but maybe I need a curve... then 40%...still no curve but the coverage looks pretty good...then I did a 35% PK and a Gloss of 40%...this should give the same results as your suggestion...in all cases the bronzing seems about the same...very "bronzed"...but the tone of the PK is very nice for what I like.
> > 
> Those sound like quite low ink limits. Have you read the QTR guide or help file to see how to set the ink limit? If not and if you do not have a spectro, just assume an appropriate ink limit of 75%. So to print your image just use the curve creation tool to make a curve using only the pk as the gray ink with a default limit of 75%. Print a radial gradient to see how linear the printer is (here are some suitable files http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/black_and_white_test.html) If there are noticeable steps in the gradient then your printer needs linearisation. You will need a spectro to linearise or Paul has a method on his website using a scanner.
>
Thanks...I'll give the Gloss effect a try.

I mentioned this issue...
2)when I open Curve
Creator and try to open an existing profile, I get an Ink Descriptor File Error
Window that has various entries like Error in Ink Descriptor in Line 95 and up
to 7 or 8 of these type of line items...when I close out this window nothing
loads up. I've tried many profiles to open and always the same

I looked more closely and after seeing the error message, the Curve for that paper/ink did open up...I did not look closely enough at first.

~ Terry