Digital BW, The Print

Howdy

I've not used my Epson 4800 printer for a long while.  I fired it up this afternoon and predictably it failed all the nozzle checks.  Several head cleans later and all the Epson cartridge ink channels work fine.  But of course I have Eboni in the K slot and it's still dead.  There doesn't appear to be any room under the head to do the windex trick.

Any ideas?

Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy
> 
> I've not used my Epson 4800 printer for a long while.  I fired it up this afternoon and predictably it failed all the nozzle checks.  Several head cleans later and all the Epson cartridge ink channels work fine.  But of course I have Eboni in the K slot and it's still dead.  There doesn't appear to be any room under the head to do the windex trick.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Steve
>

No ideas for clearing an Eboni clog on an Epson 4800?

I recently experienced this kind of super major clogging with an Ultrachrome Mk channel in a 9600 that hadn't been regularly used in a year and a half. The only thing that worked was the fantastic pinkish flush fluid that Cone sells at inkjetmall.com. This stuff really works and is a fantastic solution to keep in the lines when printers are not being used. I use it also when switching from one inkset to another. I was able to even flush this particular machine out without replacing the damper. I will replace it though before loading it up again. 

The problem with any carbon black channel is that if it isn't used regularly, the pigments eventually separate from the base and will clog not only the head and lines, but also especially the dampers, those filters that filter impurities from the ink tank to the head.

Cone also sells dampers for some of the older Epson printers. I highly recommend everyone finding some source, Epson or otherwise, for a complete set of dampers on all of these machines, especially the black and gray channels. Constantly doing power cleaning and nozzle cleanings on a super clogged printer can bend the metal grid on the surface of the head. After that they will never be the same.

Finally, it is also very important to shake the ink carts every week at least with these kind of inks. But letting them sit like that will cause problems regardless.

John



Creative Director
http://www.deanimaging.com
Atlanta Georgia




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy
> > 
> > I've not used my Epson 4800 printer for a long while.  I fired it up this afternoon and predictably it failed all the nozzle checks.  Several head cleans later and all the Epson cartridge ink channels work fine.  But of course I have Eboni in the K slot and it's still dead.  There doesn't appear to be any room under the head to do the windex trick.
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > Steve
> >
> 
> No ideas for clearing an Eboni clog on an Epson 4800?
>

Just when I thought this was coming right, I now have zero ink coming through the K channel.  Also, I can see a couple of bubbles in the centermost ink line which I assume is the K. Any ideas?  

I thought printing a pile of pure black pages might help but it doesn't seem to have helped.  

Is there a way to slide the printhead across and sit it on a paper towel soaked in windex?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:
...
> 
> Is there a way to slide the printhead across and sit it on a paper towel soaked in windex?
>
I have no experience inside a 4800, but with models where unlocking the head seems top secret, I've done it by beginning a "job" and unplugging the power cord from the wall mid head pass. Just make sure to then put the power button in the off position and putting the head back in the parking position before plugging back in and powering up, after getting the "job" paper out of there and doing your cleaning.
Tyler

Steve Kale schreef:
> Just when I thought this was coming right, I now have zero ink coming through the K channel.  Also, I can see a couple of bubbles in the centermost ink line which I assume is the K. Any ideas?  
> 
> I thought printing a pile of pure black pages might help but it doesn't seem to have helped.  
> 
> Is there a way to slide the printhead across and sit it on a paper towel soaked in windex?
> 
> 

Steve,

If air is getting into a line it is more like an underpressure develops 
in that line. Could it be that for one reason or another no ink flows 
from the cart to the head?  If that head doesn't get ink it can't pull 
more ink through the line either. The more it has to print the more the 
faulty supply shows. Take out the cart. Shake it thoroughly. Make sure 
it is full. Pull some ink out the cart with a syringe. Insert the cart 
again. Pull some ink through the line with a syringe from the damper 
side. If the resistance is high it could be the cart slot blocked or 
even the line. Clean or replace the damper.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Okay I have now taken the plastic cover off the head and taken a closer look.  Not good.  I've got zero ink in the K line for at least 9 inches back from the head and it looks patchy at the other end also.  I've tried withdrawing ink/air from the end of the line at the head/damper? end to no avail.  (What's a damper?)  Maybe I just need to keep going a lot more. I'll take a look at the nipple where the cartridge meets the printer but it isn't exactly readily accessible.

> 
> Steve,
> 
> If air is getting into a line it is more like an underpressure develops 
> in that line. Could it be that for one reason or another no ink flows 
> from the cart to the head?  If that head doesn't get ink it can't pull 
> more ink through the line either. The more it has to print the more the 
> faulty supply shows. Take out the cart. Shake it thoroughly. Make sure 
> it is full. Pull some ink out the cart with a syringe. Insert the cart 
> again. Pull some ink through the line with a syringe from the damper 
> side. If the resistance is high it could be the cart slot blocked or 
> even the line. Clean or replace the damper.
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> 
> 
> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
> 
> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
>

Steve,

The damper is the white polyethylene part between the head and the ink 
tube. It has a transparent polyester membrane that keeps the ink 
pressure equal to the surrounding atmosphere. It also acts as an ink 
buffer. There's a SS sieve inside to keep any filth, agglomerated 
pigment particles, etc from the head. That might be clogged up but in 
your case it is more likely something wrong in the ink line or cart slot 
connector. I would say put a cart filled with hand warm distilled or 
demineralised water in the K slot. Cut of some tabs on the cart if you 
do not have a K cart available but another one. Try pulling that water 
through the tube.  Some Windex in the water may help. If that doesn't 
work one of the magical cleaning fluids more often discussed here may do 
the job.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |



> Okay I have now taken the plastic cover off the head and taken a closer look.  Not good.  I've got zero ink in the K line for at least 9 inches back from the head and it looks patchy at the other end also.  I've tried withdrawing ink/air from the end of the line at the head/damper? end to no avail.  (What's a damper?)  Maybe I just need to keep going a lot more. I'll take a look at the nipple where the cartridge meets the printer but it isn't exactly readily accessible.
> 
>  
>> Steve,
>>
>> If air is getting into a line it is more like an underpressure develops 
>> in that line. Could it be that for one reason or another no ink flows 
>> from the cart to the head?  If that head doesn't get ink it can't pull 
>> more ink through the line either. The more it has to print the more the 
>> faulty supply shows. Take out the cart. Shake it thoroughly. Make sure 
>> it is full. Pull some ink out the cart with a syringe. Insert the cart 
>> again. Pull some ink through the line with a syringe from the damper 
>> side. If the resistance is high it could be the cart slot blocked or 
>> even the line. Clean or replace the damper.
>>
>> -- 
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
>>
>>
>> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
>>
>> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
>> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
>> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

I think it's pretty much safe to say that I have next to no ink in the  
K line.  Where the line disappears from view towards the cartridge is  
clear as well.  If I clean the damper (now that I know what it is!)  
and there is no ink in the line, will the printer still be able to  
draw ink through (assuming no other blockages)?  I assume "yes" as  
that's how the printer was delivered - with empty lines.  But if the  
damper was blocked, I would expect full lines, i.e. it pulled ink  
through until it blocked...


On 10 Jul 2009, at 21:00, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

>
>
> Steve,
>
> The damper is the white polyethylene part between the head and the ink
> tube. It has a transparent polyester membrane that keeps the ink
> pressure equal to the surrounding atmosphere. It also acts as an ink
> buffer. There's a SS sieve inside to keep any filth, agglomerated
> pigment particles, etc from the head. That might be clogged up but in
> your case it is more likely something wrong in the ink line or cart  
> slot
> connector. I would say put a cart filled with hand warm distilled or
> demineralised water in the K slot. Cut of some tabs on the cart if you
> do not have a K cart available but another one. Try pulling that water
> through the tube. Some Windex in the water may help. If that doesn't
> work one of the magical cleaning fluids more often discussed here  
> may do
> the job.
>
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
>
> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
>
> | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> | www.pigment-print.com |
> | ( unvollendet ) |
>
> > Okay I have now taken the plastic cover off the head and taken a  
> closer look. Not good. I've got zero ink in the K line for at least  
> 9 inches back from the head and it looks patchy at the other end  
> also. I've tried withdrawing ink/air from the end of the line at the  
> head/damper? end to no avail. (What's a damper?) Maybe I just need  
> to keep going a lot more. I'll take a look at the nipple where the  
> cartridge meets the printer but it isn't exactly readily accessible.
> >
> >
> >> Steve,
> >>
> >> If air is getting into a line it is more like an underpressure  
> develops
> >> in that line. Could it be that for one reason or another no ink  
> flows
> >> from the cart to the head? If that head doesn't get ink it can't  
> pull
> >> more ink through the line either. The more it has to print the  
> more the
> >> faulty supply shows. Take out the cart. Shake it thoroughly. Make  
> sure
> >> it is full. Pull some ink out the cart with a syringe. Insert the  
> cart
> >> again. Pull some ink through the line with a syringe from the  
> damper
> >> side. If the resistance is high it could be the cart slot blocked  
> or
> >> even the line. Clean or replace the damper.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> >>
> >>
> >> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
> >>
> >> | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> >> | www.pigment-print.com |
> >> | ( unvollendet ) |
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
>
> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
>
> | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> | www.pigment-print.com |
> | ( unvollendet ) |
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ok I see to be going one step forwards and one step backwards here.

I think I have cleared the issue with the ink line - hopefully.

I am now trying to reconnect the white "t joint" where the line  
connects to the top of the head.  However, when I slide the line on to  
the t-joint and retighten the sleeve, it no longer grips the line....

>
>
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> The damper is the white polyethylene part between the head and the  
>> ink
>> tube. It has a transparent polyester membrane that keeps the ink
>> pressure equal to the surrounding atmosphere. It also acts as an ink
>> buffer. There's a SS sieve inside to keep any filth, agglomerated
>> pigment particles, etc from the head. That might be clogged up but in
>> your case it is more likely something wrong in the ink line or cart
>> slot
>> connector. I would say put a cart filled with hand warm distilled or
>> demineralised water in the K slot. Cut of some tabs on the cart if  
>> you
>> do not have a K cart available but another one. Try pulling that  
>> water
>> through the tube. Some Windex in the water may help. If that doesn't
>> work one of the magical cleaning fluids more often discussed here
>> may do
>> the job.

Have you ever had that feeling when you wish you had never started  
messing with something?

I now see I have lost two tiny black rubber ring seals!!  They're  
gone, gone forever.

Any suggestions as to where to get a couple of replacements?


On 10 Jul 2009, at 21:51, Steve Kale wrote:

>
>
> Ok I see to be going one step forwards and one step backwards here.
>
> I think I have cleared the issue with the ink line - hopefully.
>
> I am now trying to reconnect the white "t joint" where the line
> connects to the top of the head. However, when I slide the line on to
> the t-joint and retighten the sleeve, it no longer grips the line....
> >
> >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, and every single time I've felt that way it involved a ****** Epson inkjet printer with a clogged head. Whole books can be written on the topic and the total amount of ink wasted in this world could fill the Pacific Ocean.






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:

>
> Have you ever had that feeling when you wish you had never started  
> messing with something?

Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my 
7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First 
thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light 
I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I 
hold it just right and use a loupe.

So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work 
towards a more visible pattern?

Thanks!

Patrick Carr
Carr Imaging

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> Have you ever had that feeling when you wish you had never started  
> messing with something?
> 
> I now see I have lost two tiny black rubber ring seals!!  They're  
> gone, gone forever.
> 
> Any suggestions as to where to get a couple of replacements?
> 
> 

One previous printers they were just plain old ordinary O rings, all you need is the correct size. I suggest a google UK search and get a variety kit if you aren't sure. That said you can probably measure the tube to get a rough idea, probably 1.5mm, 1.75mm or 2mm. Probably get as many O rings as you would every want for 5 pounds and then just pick the correct size.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, and every single time I've felt that way it involved a ****** Epson inkjet printer with a clogged head. Whole books can be written on the topic and the total amount of ink wasted in this world could fill the Pacific Ocean.
> 


And without the piezo head we wouldn't have any choices in inks either. So for good or bad we are stuck with them as the most versatile of machines. Of course user replaceable heads would have gone a long way to making things better.

I use Jon Cone's neutral k7 in our 9800 and yes that 4th position is very hard to make out.  That's normal, I have found that tossing in a sheet of glossy or pearl surface paper for your nozzle check makes it easier to see even though they are only meant to print on matte.  I use a magnifying glass lamp for close inspection of those patterns.
Cheers,
Jesse



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Carr <patcarr@...> wrote:

>
> Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my 
> 7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First 
> thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light 
> I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I 
> hold it just right and use a loupe.
> 
> So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work 
> towards a more visible pattern?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Patrick Carr
> Carr Imaging
>

That would be position 7. Yes, the nozzle check will be very light. However,
I print my nozzle checks on plain paper and under a bright table lamp I can
clearly see that I have a good nozzle check. No loupe is required.

This is a great inkset. Enjoy printing with it, and let us know how things
progress.

Terry.

On 10/07/09 6:36 PM, "Patrick Carr" <patcarr@...> wrote:

> Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my
> 7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First
> thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light
> I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I
> hold it just right and use a loupe.
> 
> So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work
> towards a more visible pattern?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Patrick Carr
> Carr Imaging

That's very true they are very versatile. I'm also wondering about the way they are made these days. The mechanism on my old Epson 10K never had and still never does clog nozzles after all these years. That particular pressurized system really works with all the inksets. Those heads were super well made. It is still very rare to even have to do a nozzle check at all, even when not used for months at a time. So, it can be done with the Piezzo design. 




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:

> 
> And without the piezo head we wouldn't have any choices in inks either. So for good or bad we are stuck with them as the most versatile of machines. Of course user replaceable heads would have gone a long way to making things better.
>

Steve Kale schreef:
> Have you ever had that feeling when you wish you had never started  
> messing with something?
> 
> I now see I have lost two tiny black rubber ring seals!!  They're  
> gone, gone forever.
> 
> Any suggestions as to where to get a couple of replacements?

They are not in the copper nuts ?
Give me your snailmail address privately and I send you some spare ones 
ripped of a binned 3000 and 5000.
Should be there is some days.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

john dean schreef:
> That's very true they are very versatile. I'm also wondering about the way they are made these days. The mechanism on my old Epson 10K never had and still never does clog nozzles after all these years. That particular pressurized system really works with all the inksets. Those heads were super well made. It is still very rare to even have to do a nozzle check at all, even when not used for months at a time. So, it can be done with the Piezzo design. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <dfaprinting@...> wrote:
>> And without the piezo head we wouldn't have any choices in inks either. So for good or bad we are stuck with them as the most versatile of machines. Of course user replaceable heads would have gone a long way to making things better.
>>
> 
> 
> 

That 10000  head always had a price tag around1000$ and now must be at 
1200$.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Steve Kale schreef:
> Ok I see to be going one step forwards and one step backwards here.
> 
> I think I have cleared the issue with the ink line - hopefully.
> 
> I am now trying to reconnect the white "t joint" where the line  
> connects to the top of the head.  However, when I slide the line on to  
> the t-joint and retighten the sleeve, it no longer grips the line....

Before reassembling the damper + tube to the head you should pull the 
ink into the tube + damper with a syringe.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

It is supposed to be that light! Its in the "yellow" position, right? Its the lightest shade of gray and is part of why you dont see any dots in the highlights nearest to paper white where no ink is used.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Carr <patcarr@...> wrote:

>
> Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my 
> 7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First 
> thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light 
> I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I 
> hold it just right and use a loupe.
> 
> So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work 
> towards a more visible pattern?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Patrick Carr
> Carr Imaging
>

The auto check patterns are much better for checking that the nozzles are
really clear and you can visually also see all the K7 ink patterns clearly
without a loupe..

You might find that the 9800 still runs an auto check ok with K7.
My 1900 does. But I haven't tried this on large format.

Also if the 9800 prints a single strip of patches for the auto nozzle check
(like the 4800) you can let it print the strip and then if it can't read
them properly you can just press reset after its printed, but before it auto
checks and then check by eye.

Mike





2009/7/11 Patrick Carr <patcarr@...>

>
>
> Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my
> 7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First
> thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light
> I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I
> hold it just right and use a loupe.
>
> So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work
> towards a more visible pattern?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Patrick Carr
> Carr Imaging
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes it is super ultra light in the 7th channel. Cone even mentions on their website that you can "barely see it" in the nozzle check . After using this inkset with several 6 channel printers I don't think the final channel is at all necessary. It was most likely included to complete out the 7 channel slots at that time. Now with 8 channel piezzo machines he just stopped and put in a clear base fluid I believe to fill that 8th slot.

I've found that using a coated paper like Enhanced Matt or something makes the nozzles a lot easier to read than plain paper.


john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> The auto check patterns are much better for checking that the nozzles are
> really clear and you can visually also see all the K7 ink patterns clearly
> without a loupe..
> 
> You might find that the 9800 still runs an auto check ok with K7.
> My 1900 does. But I haven't tried this on large format.
> 
> Also if the 9800 prints a single strip of patches for the auto nozzle check
> (like the 4800) you can let it print the strip and then if it can't read
> them properly you can just press reset after its printed, but before it auto
> checks and then check by eye.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/7/11 Patrick Carr <patcarr@...>
> 
> >
> >
> > Just installed (for the first time) Jon Cone's Special Edition K7s in my
> > 7800. Did a couple of power cleanings and printed a nozzle check. First
> > thing I noticed was how light the 4th pattern from the left is--so light
> > I can barely see it, but I can see that the nozzles are printing if I
> > hold it just right and use a loupe.
> >
> > So, is the ink really that light in that position, or should I work
> > towards a more visible pattern?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Patrick Carr
> > Carr Imaging
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Right. And the 9600 head is $700.00-$800.00 plus about $1200.00 to have it installed. If they let you buy them at all at this point. And, they last half as long and it clogs a million times worse.

The new 9880 redesigned heads are big and pressurized but from what is posted on the Epson lists, they are clogging just as much as previous versions, and doing a lot of automated power cleanings whether the user wants to or not. I believe Mark turned that feature off on his.  I wonder how those heads would work with other less clog prone inks like K7. 

john

> That 10000  head always had a price tag around1000$ and now must be at 
> 1200$.
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> 
> 
> New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions
> 
> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
>

Jesse, Terry, Finnkrogvig, Mike and John;
Thanks for the information and suggestions. I'll put them to good use as 
soon as I get back to the studio. I'm eager to give this inkset a try!

Best;
Patrick Carr

Carr Imaging