Digital BW, The Print

Haven't been following developments for a while and am interested in hearing a synopsis of what's new and what people like the most.  Has bronzing been tamed?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't been following developments for a while and am interested in hearing a synopsis of what's new and what people like the most.  Has bronzing been tamed?
>

Harman Fiber Gloss AL. Heavy real paper. Very smooth creamy semigloss surface with the least paper texture I have seen. Very sharp. No bronzing to speak of. Closest to darkroom Fiber air dried I have found, but even smoother. Expensive.

One feature I REALLY like is that you can get it in 17x25" cut sheets which is rare. This aloows you to print a full 16x24" print and thus keep the aspect ratio of modern digital slrs and get maximum use of your paper. Very rare size.

I am super happy now with my paper (Epson 3800)

Bronzing is effected by both the inkset and the media. For me with the Z3100 and the gloss enhancer channel and a new baryta media preset, bronzing has been tamed.

I've tested and worked with most all these fiber gloss papers. I ended up using two of them: Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta, which has the most natural base color and well designed texture that passes for gelatin silver, and the other is the Innova Satin fiber gloss, that has a brighter white base, on the cold side, but absolutely perfect texture. I still have some bronzing with the Ilford Gallerie Gold and it requires a couple of light coats of uv spray to eliminate. I don't spray anymore. The Ilford is cheaper than the rest and the surface texture is great, but I had way too many prints scratch, even in the printer, so abandoned it completely.

I've heard the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta is working well with Epson K3 as well. To me it is like the perfected Crane Silver Rag that was never really ready. I'm settling on this one for both black and white and color gloss fiber work.



John





John Dean
Creative Director
http://www.deanimaging.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote:

>
> Haven't been following developments for a while and am interested in hearing a synopsis of what's new and what people like the most.  Has bronzing been tamed?
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
 
> I've heard the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta is working well with Epson K3 as well. To me it is like the perfected Crane Silver Rag that was never really ready. I'm settling on this one for both black and white and color gloss fiber work.
> 
> 
I have been using the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta on my 3800 with the K3 inks and am thoroughly impressed. No bronzing, the ink seems to soak into the thick paper itself. Now if I can only get this paper through the R1900 for my B&W work, see later post.
-SteveO

Same with the Z3100, Photorag Baryta is soaking into the paper and giving the impression of a traditional photograph.

I was a little harsh in comment about Crane Silver Rag however. It isn't a bad paper at all and if it hadn't been created we might not have these other offerings to compare it to in the first place. It was the first 100% rag media in this category and without optical brighteners to reduce its longevity. 

My only problem with Silver Rag is that for smaller prints, say below 16x20, I just find the texture to overwhelm the fine details in an image. But for large prints it can be very beautiful and I've seen whole shows done on it that were outstanding. 

In comparison, I've been doing some large editions of very small prints in the 6"x9" range with Photorag Baryta and they are working out very well, black and white and color, easy to hold in your hand and look at.

The Innova Semi-Matte also has a great texture, probably the best of them all. It does have a lot of optical brighteners though and is bluish white in comparison, which you see in a natural rag overmatt easily. I've also found with it the tightly wound rolls scan scratch easily.Unlike Photorag Baryta it is very difficult to flatten. It's also way more expensive in roll form that all the others. But it's a pretty cool paper too.

John







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@...> wrote:

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> wrote:
>  
> > I've heard the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta is working well with Epson K3 as well. To me it is like the perfected Crane Silver Rag that was never really ready. I'm settling on this one for both black and white and color gloss fiber work.
> > 
> > 
> I have been using the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta on my 3800 with the K3 inks and am thoroughly impressed. No bronzing, the ink seems to soak into the thick paper itself. Now if I can only get this paper through the R1900 for my B&W work, see later post.
> -SteveO
>

I have used hahnemuhle photo rag pearl for a few projects, the bronzing is not too bad although from really obtuse viewing angles it can be quite pronounced.  It has been a really easy paper to deal with, nice weight, easy profiles etc.
That said I mostly use MK papers so add a grain of salt in there.
Cheers,
J


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:

>
> Same with the Z3100, Photorag Baryta is soaking into the paper and giving the impression of a traditional photograph.
> 
> I was a little harsh in comment about Crane Silver Rag however. It isn't a bad paper at all and if it hadn't been created we might not have these other offerings to compare it to in the first place. It was the first 100% rag media in this category and without optical brighteners to reduce its longevity. 
> 
> My only problem with Silver Rag is that for smaller prints, say below 16x20, I just find the texture to overwhelm the fine details in an image. But for large prints it can be very beautiful and I've seen whole shows done on it that were outstanding. 
> 
> In comparison, I've been doing some large editions of very small prints in the 6"x9" range with Photorag Baryta and they are working out very well, black and white and color, easy to hold in your hand and look at.
> 
> The Innova Semi-Matte also has a great texture, probably the best of them all. It does have a lot of optical brighteners though and is bluish white in comparison, which you see in a natural rag overmatt easily. I've also found with it the tightly wound rolls scan scratch easily.Unlike Photorag Baryta it is very difficult to flatten. It's also way more expensive in roll form that all the others. But it's a pretty cool paper too.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveoshoots" <steveoconnell@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >  
> > > I've heard the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta is working well with Epson K3 as well. To me it is like the perfected Crane Silver Rag that was never really ready. I'm settling on this one for both black and white and color gloss fiber work.
> > > 
> > > 
> > I have been using the Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta on my 3800 with the K3 inks and am thoroughly impressed. No bronzing, the ink seems to soak into the thick paper itself. Now if I can only get this paper through the R1900 for my B&W work, see later post.
> > -SteveO
> >
>

On 14/07/09 10:32 AM, "john dean" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
 
> I was a little harsh in comment about Crane Silver Rag however. It isn't a bad
> paper at all and if it hadn't been created we might not have these other
> offerings to compare it to in the first place. It was the first 100% rag media
> in this category and without optical brighteners to reduce its longevity.
> 
> My only problem with Silver Rag is that for smaller prints, say below 16x20, I
> just find the texture to overwhelm the fine details in an image. But for large
> prints it can be very beautiful and I've seen whole shows done on it that were
> outstanding. 
> 
> In comparison, I've been doing some large editions of very small prints in the
> 6"x9" range with Photorag Baryta and they are working out very well, black and
> white and color, easy to hold in your hand and look at.

I think I'm bucking the trend here!  ;-)  I just picked up some Silver Rag
(thanks Jim!).

I too looked at Silver Rag when it first came out, and did not like the
texture. However, as you'll see below, I really liked the paper this
go-round. I understand they changed the coating in the last few months,
which would explain a lot. Since Crane simply supplies the paper base now, I
suspect Intellicoat took addition liberties in tuning the coating.

I've used Photo Rag Baryta, and I picked up sample packs of Silver Rag and
Photo Rag Pearl for evaluation. I found Silver Rag to be very similar to
Photo Rag Baryta. It has slightly more texture, a bit more weight, a
slightly warmer paper base, a bit more sheen and a bit more gloss
differential.

There was something I really liked in the colour test images I printed (all
small) on Silver Rag. It might have simply been a better profile. However,
I'm expecting / hoping it will be a nice contrast to the new Canson fine art
gloss coming later this year. The Canson should be a whiter paper.

All of my evaluation was done with colour prints. I will have Jon Cone make
a K7 Special Edition profile for Silver Rag shortly. I look forward to
seeing that.

BTW, it was a difficult decision, choosing between Photo Rag Baryta and
Silver Rag. I notice that Tyler Boley offers both.

Terry.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Terry Ritz <t.ritz@...> wrote:
>
> I've been doing some large editions of very small prints in the
> > 6"x9" range with Photorag Baryta and they are working out very well, black and
> > white and color, easy to hold in your hand and look at.
>

I haven't been printing for some while but I recently started again, using Harman Baryta and am happy with the prints.  Can someone give me a comparison between the Hahnemuhle and the Harman Baryta papers?

thanks... Ed