Digital BW, The Print

Museo Textured Rag 325
PremierArt Velvet Fine Art Paper

any impressions? Still testing for new papers that may be good Hahnemuhle options. 
I'll stick with my recommendation of Generations Alise as a HPR alternate, with one caveat- as those involved in monochroamtic ink have known for some time, coatings play a major roll in the look of the hues we so carefully consider. 
So, even though Generations yields rewarding densities and gamut, it does not have quite the warm richness HPR has with the warm inks I use. It's subtle and not a deal killer, but side by side it's easy to see. It may use the same coating chemistry as other PremierArt papers, which are well known to make the neutral K7 sets look cool, a unique and not unpleasant look.
Alise looks fine, but I doubt I can talk my picky split tone clients into losing a bit of that lovely warmth in the highlights. Selenium inks look nice on it though, perhaps just a hair less rosy.

In fact, in a recent conversation with Mark McCormick-Goodhart from Aardenburg Imaging & Archives, he explained at length the complexity of what is happening at the meeting of ink to these coatings...

Anyway, if anyone has input on the 2 papers above, please share.
Thanks,
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

Tyler,

Are any of these papers available in wide format sheets?  Where are you
getting them?  I don't see that Jim lists this PremierArt Generations paper
on his website, and the Museo textured rag doesn't show large sheets.  Are
you switching to roles?  I hate roles.

Have I had my nose to the grindstone too much, and missed the chatter about
wide format sheets of HPR being discontinued?  Nobody, including Shades of
Paper has 24x36 sheets on the website anymore, so I emailed Hahn. customer
support in Chicago, and they have just emailed me back that all 24" sheet
stock is being discontinued.  So, it isn't only about the price of the
sheets - they aren't going to make them anymore.

I thought you hate rolls too??!
Josh

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote:

> Museo Textured Rag 325
> PremierArt Velvet Fine Art Paper
>
> any impressions? Still testing for new papers that may be good Hahnemuhle
> options.
> I'll stick with my recommendation of Generations Alise as a HPR alternate,
> with one caveat- as those involved in monochroamtic ink have known for some
> time, coatings play a major roll in the look of the hues we so carefully
> consider.
> So, even though Generations yields rewarding densities and gamut, it does
> not have quite the warm richness HPR has with the warm inks I use. It's
> subtle and not a deal killer, but side by side it's easy to see. It may use
> the same coating chemistry as other PremierArt papers, which are well known
> to make the neutral K7 sets look cool, a unique and not unpleasant look.
> Alise looks fine, but I doubt I can talk my picky split tone clients into
> losing a bit of that lovely warmth in the highlights. Selenium inks look
> nice on it though, perhaps just a hair less rosy.
>
> In fact, in a recent conversation with Mark McCormick-Goodhart from
> Aardenburg Imaging & Archives, he explained at length the complexity of what
> is happening at the meeting of ink to these coatings...
>
> Anyway, if anyone has input on the 2 papers above, please share.
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
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> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND
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> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
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> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tyler,

Did you try Canson Infinity Rag Photographique?
For K7 Neutral /SE / Sepia its pretty much a 1:1 subsitute for HPR.
Texture is about as smooth as the smoothest HPR batch.

Mike




2009/8/18 Tyler Boley <tyler@tylerboley.com>

>
>
> Museo Textured Rag 325
> PremierArt Velvet Fine Art Paper
>
> any impressions? Still testing for new papers that may be good Hahnemuhle
> options.
> I'll stick with my recommendation of Generations Alise as a HPR alternate,
> with one caveat- as those involved in monochroamtic ink have known for some
> time, coatings play a major roll in the look of the hues we so carefully
> consider.
> So, even though Generations yields rewarding densities and gamut, it does
> not have quite the warm richness HPR has with the warm inks I use. It's
> subtle and not a deal killer, but side by side it's easy to see. It may use
> the same coating chemistry as other PremierArt papers, which are well known
> to make the neutral K7 sets look cool, a unique and not unpleasant look.
> Alise looks fine, but I doubt I can talk my picky split tone clients into
> losing a bit of that lovely warmth in the highlights. Selenium inks look
> nice on it though, perhaps just a hair less rosy.
>
> In fact, in a recent conversation with Mark McCormick-Goodhart from
> Aardenburg Imaging & Archives, he explained at length the complexity of what
> is happening at the meeting of ink to these coatings...
>
> Anyway, if anyone has input on the 2 papers above, please share.
> Thanks,
> Tyler
> http://www.custom-digital.com/
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sep 21, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Michael King wrote:

> Did you try Canson Infinity Rag Photographique?

Has anyone compared that paper to other matte papers as far as D-Max  
goes?

Thanks!

Jim

With K7 its comparable with HPR i.e. L* 16.7 or so.

Mike

2009/9/21 Jim Goshorn <jgoshorn@...>

>
>
>
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Michael King wrote:
>
> > Did you try Canson Infinity Rag Photographique?
>
> Has anyone compared that paper to other matte papers as far as D-Max
> goes?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Josh, I honestly don't know about available sizes, I was primarily interested in whether or not anyone had tried them first. I do in fact hate rolls, and many of my clients do too, but it looks like we are being forced to them over time. It's a problem, but one we may be able to do nothing about...
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Josh Hackney <joshhackney@...> wrote:

>
> Tyler,
> 
> Are any of these papers available in wide format sheets?  Where are you
> getting them?  I don't see that Jim lists this PremierArt Generations paper
> on his website, and the Museo textured rag doesn't show large sheets.  Are
> you switching to roles?  I hate roles.
> 
> Have I had my nose to the grindstone too much, and missed the chatter about
> wide format sheets of HPR being discontinued?  Nobody, including Shades of
> Paper has 24x36 sheets on the website anymore, so I emailed Hahn. customer
> support in Chicago, and they have just emailed me back that all 24" sheet
> stock is being discontinued.  So, it isn't only about the price of the
> sheets - they aren't going to make them anymore.
> 
> I thought you hate rolls too??!
> Josh
> 
> On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote:
> 
> > Museo Textured Rag 325
> > PremierArt Velvet Fine Art Paper
> >
> > any impressions? Still testing for new papers that may be good Hahnemuhle
> > options.
> > I'll stick with my recommendation of Generations Alise as a HPR alternate,
> > with one caveat- as those involved in monochroamtic ink have known for some
> > time, coatings play a major roll in the look of the hues we so carefully
> > consider.
> > So, even though Generations yields rewarding densities and gamut, it does
> > not have quite the warm richness HPR has with the warm inks I use. It's
> > subtle and not a deal killer, but side by side it's easy to see. It may use
> > the same coating chemistry as other PremierArt papers, which are well known
> > to make the neutral K7 sets look cool, a unique and not unpleasant look.
> > Alise looks fine, but I doubt I can talk my picky split tone clients into
> > losing a bit of that lovely warmth in the highlights. Selenium inks look
> > nice on it though, perhaps just a hair less rosy.
> >
> > In fact, in a recent conversation with Mark McCormick-Goodhart from
> > Aardenburg Imaging & Archives, he explained at length the complexity of what
> > is happening at the meeting of ink to these coatings...
> >
> > Anyway, if anyone has input on the 2 papers above, please share.
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler
> > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
> > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
> > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
> > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I just prepared some sample prints for the local dealer from the Duo 220, and a few of their other papers. I will get my hands on some 310 soon, but my impression from the 220 is that you are probably right. Nice paper, good option.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Michael King <drmrking@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Tyler,
> 
> Did you try Canson Infinity Rag Photographique?
> For K7 Neutral /SE / Sepia its pretty much a 1:1 subsitute for HPR.
> Texture is about as smooth as the smoothest HPR batch.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2009/8/18 Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> 
> >
> >
> > Museo Textured Rag 325
> > PremierArt Velvet Fine Art Paper
> >
> > any impressions? Still testing for new papers that may be good Hahnemuhle
> > options.
> > I'll stick with my recommendation of Generations Alise as a HPR alternate,
> > with one caveat- as those involved in monochroamtic ink have known for some
> > time, coatings play a major roll in the look of the hues we so carefully
> > consider.
> > So, even though Generations yields rewarding densities and gamut, it does
> > not have quite the warm richness HPR has with the warm inks I use. It's
> > subtle and not a deal killer, but side by side it's easy to see. It may use
> > the same coating chemistry as other PremierArt papers, which are well known
> > to make the neutral K7 sets look cool, a unique and not unpleasant look.
> > Alise looks fine, but I doubt I can talk my picky split tone clients into
> > losing a bit of that lovely warmth in the highlights. Selenium inks look
> > nice on it though, perhaps just a hair less rosy.
> >
> > In fact, in a recent conversation with Mark McCormick-Goodhart from
> > Aardenburg Imaging & Archives, he explained at length the complexity of what
> > is happening at the meeting of ink to these coatings...
> >
> > Anyway, if anyone has input on the 2 papers above, please share.
> > Thanks,
> > Tyler
> > http://www.custom-digital.com/
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

with the Duo 220 version, it seems in line with the other good papers like the Hahnemuhle line.
It should be noted that there are a number of contributing factors for dmax, not the least of which is the choice of K ink. Also, how the low end of the scale is built effects things, for CMYK color with a RIP, the K point is a "rich" black, and performs differently than the Epson RGB driver which is K only at the low end. 
I'm finding some of these new coatings do well with K only, high dmax with one ink, but can't take as much total ink, or perform less well than the Hahnemuhle papers with a rich black.
There are always complications it seems..
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jim Goshorn <jgoshorn@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Michael King wrote:
> 
> > Did you try Canson Infinity Rag Photographique?
> 
> Has anyone compared that paper to other matte papers as far as D-Max  
> goes?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jim
>