Digital BW, The Print

Hi,
I've just bought some Tyvek to place between prints and non-archival backing board.

Tyvek is breathable but waterproof - but if frames are not going to get damp from very high humidity, what chance is there of acids migrating, if something cheaper like alpha cellulose card is placed between the backing board and print?

thanks,
Richard
____________
http://www.richardsmallfield.com

Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...> wrote:
>
> ... what chance is there of acids migrating, ...

The acids will migrate  like  a gas through lots of substances.  I had some silver  prints with acidic cardboard backings.  Wax paper  did not stop  the acids.  Aluminum foil did.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

> I've just bought some Tyvek to place between prints and non-archival  
> backing board.
>
> Tyvek is breathable but waterproof - but if frames are not going to  
> get damp from very high humidity, what chance is there of acids  
> migrating, if something cheaper like alpha cellulose card is placed  
> between the backing board and print?

Back in the days when I was a poor student, I sometimes used aluminum  
foil as a "barrier paper" between archival prints + mats and el cheapo  
backing board.  The print was "hung" on the back of the mat with linen  
tape, and a layer of aluminum foil separated this good stuff from the  
backing.  After thirty some years the prints still look fine.

Myron



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So I suppose Polypropylene film would be good, too. I did wonder about moisture being trapped between the picture and the barrier paper if it didn't breathe. I suppose you want make the barrier just a bit bigger than the print so moisture can escape around the edges?

I might buy some wide rolls of tin foil the - that would be cheap and effective.

thanks,
Richard

At 12:27 p.m. Thursday 5/11/2009, you wrote:
>Back in the days when I was a poor student, I sometimes used aluminum 
>foil as a "barrier paper" between archival prints + mats and el cheapo 
>backing board. The print was "hung" on the back of the mat with linen 
>tape, and a layer of aluminum foil separated this good stuff from the 
>backing. After thirty some years the prints still look fine.

____________
http://www.richardsmallfield.com

Everything outgases.
If you're going to seal the picture into a frame, behind glass or  
plexiglass, I would think that it would be best not to include  
anything in that environment that could possibly affect the print.  
Considering the cost of the print and the cost of matting and framing  
it, the price of an archival backer board is a trivial expense.

Dave
http://davereichertphoto.com/


On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:42 PM, Richard Smallfield wrote:

> Hi,
> I've just bought some Tyvek to place between prints and non-archival  
> backing board.
>
> Tyvek is breathable but waterproof - but if frames are not going to  
> get damp from very high humidity, what chance is there of acids  
> migrating, if something cheaper like alpha cellulose card is placed  
> between the backing board and print?
>
> thanks,
> Richard



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Dave,
that's what I plan to do in future, but I have a lot of frames already that I don't want to buy new backing boards for.

thanks,
Richard

At 01:05 p.m. Thursday 5/11/2009, you wrote:
>Everything outgases.
>If you're going to seal the picture into a frame, behind glass or 
>plexiglass, I would think that it would be best not to include 
>anything in that environment that could possibly affect the print. 
>Considering the cost of the print and the cost of matting and framing 
>it, the price of an archival backer board is a trivial expense.
>
>Dave
><http://davereichertphoto.com/>http://davereichertphoto.com/

____________
http://www.richardsmallfield.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Am a new member who just joined this group, am  80 and have been involved in photography since 1936-37.  Found a broken Kodak Vest Pocket Bellows camera, with variable shutter and aperture.  My Mom thought it broken beyond repair, so when I asked if I could have it, she gave it to me.   The bellows was off the track.  Took it apart and fixed it. 

My aunt who was the families "Official Photographer" who had her own darkroom and so I begged her to teach me to use it.  She had been traveling the US in an old Ford and 10x10 Tent taking pictures in National parks.  She taught me to process film and make contact prints, and the rest is history.  Now for decades, Ive been the "Official Family Photographer" and we have a very large family, with reunions every year that about 167 relatives attend.

Years ago when I retired, we moved from CA to AZ where Id always preferred for vacations, into a 35ft Travel Trailer in a campground.   Bought a 23ft RV  traveling 11,000-12,000 miles six months of the year.  This limits our space for pictures, especially since my wife and I are both artists, painting in oils.   Soooo,  we mounted frames on the walls where space is available, like five in the TT and two in the RV.    Then I bought a huge album with plastic pages that will hold up to an 18x24.   Now we rotate the new ones through the frames, and put the ones from  them in the album.   When the album gets full, we pick the ones we are willing to give away, and send them to my five children and 17 grandchildren.  The three great grandchildren are not old enough yet, to enjoy the prints, but as they grow, they will begin getting them.

 Ye Ol' Codger    Bob, & Nadine

Over 2000 Photos of our Travels.
http://rjohnston.zenfolio.com/




________________________________

From: Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 5:49:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Barrier Paper

  
Hi Dave,
that's what I plan to do in future, but I have a lot of frames already that I don't want to buy new backing boards for.

thanks,
Richard



___ 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob,

I loved your story and your photos. Glad to see you are living the dream!

Best Wishes,

 

Gary Wagner

garywagner.com

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:12 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] What we do with Prints we can not keep...

 

  

Am a new member who just joined this group, am 80 and have been involved in
photography since 1936-37. Found a broken Kodak Vest Pocket Bellows camera,
with variable shutter and aperture. My Mom thought it broken beyond repair,
so when I asked if I could have it, she gave it to me. The bellows was off
the track. Took it apart and fixed it. 

My aunt who was the families "Official Photographer" who had her own
darkroom and so I begged her to teach me to use it. She had been traveling
the US in an old Ford and 10x10 Tent taking pictures in National parks. She
taught me to process film and make contact prints, and the rest is history.
Now for decades, Ive been the "Official Family Photographer" and we have a
very large family, with reunions every year that about 167 relatives attend.

Years ago when I retired, we moved from CA to AZ where Id always preferred
for vacations, into a 35ft Travel Trailer in a campground. Bought a 23ft RV
traveling 11,000-12,000 miles six months of the year. This limits our space
for pictures, especially since my wife and I are both artists, painting in
oils. Soooo, we mounted frames on the walls where space is available, like
five in the TT and two in the RV. Then I bought a huge 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob-

You're a breath of fresh air. Thanks for sharing that.
I wish you many more years of enjoyment.

All best,
Dave

http://davereichertphoto.com/


On Nov 5, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Robert Johnston wrote:

> Am a new member who just joined this group, am 80 and have been  
> involved in photography since 1936-37. Found a broken Kodak Vest  
> Pocket Bellows camera, with variable shutter and aperture. My Mom  
> thought it broken beyond repair, so when I asked if I could have it,  
> she gave it to me. The bellows was off the track. Took it apart and  
> fixed it.
>
> My aunt who was the families "Official Photographer" who had her own  
> darkroom and so I begged her to teach me to use it. She had been  
> traveling the US in an old Ford and 10x10 Tent taking pictures in  
> National parks. She taught me to process film and make contact  
> prints, and the rest is history. Now for decades, Ive been the  
> "Official Family Photographer" and we have a very large family, with  
> reunions every year that about 167 relatives attend.
>
> Years ago when I retired, we moved from CA to AZ where Id always  
> preferred for vacations, into a 35ft Travel Trailer in a campground.  
> Bought a 23ft RV traveling 11,000-12,000 miles six months of the  
> year. This limits our space for pictures, especially since my wife  
> and I are both artists, painting in oils. Soooo, we mounted frames  
> on the walls where space is available, like five in the TT and two  
> in the RV. Then I bought a huge album with plastic pages that will  
> hold up to an 18x24. Now we rotate the new ones through the frames,  
> and put the ones from them in the album. When the album gets full,  
> we pick the ones we are willing to give away, and send them to my  
> five children and 17 grandchildren. The three great grandchildren  
> are not old enough yet, to enjoy the prints, but as they grow, they  
> will begin getting them.
>
> Ye Ol' Codger Bob, & Nadine
>
> Over 2000 Photos of our Travels.
> http://rjohnston.zenfolio.com/
>
> ________________________________
> From: Richard Smallfield <r.smallfield@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 5:49:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Barrier Paper
>
> Hi Dave,
> that's what I plan to do in future, but I have a lot of frames  
> already that I don't want to buy new backing boards for.
>
> thanks,
> Richard
>
> ___
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob,  Love the story of your aunt the photog and the story of your  
retirement.  May you and yours stay healthy and enjoying life!  Thanks  
again for the great story.  Roger

As Myron said, aluminum foil sandwiched between the photo and shirt cardboards served us very well. Resin-coated papers had just come onto the market; though some were capable of a wonderful range, the word was that the tones soon fell off even in dark storage. I still have many of the prints I mounted in this way, and I'm always amazed when I open the Kodak and Agfa boxes I store them in: they're as rich and rewarding as the day they came out of the press.
Bob Bollini

Just an FYI link I don't remember seeing previously:

<http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml>

Sam

Sam McCandless schreef:
> Just an FYI link I don't remember seeing previously:
> 
> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml>
> 
> Sam
> 

I have mentioned it 3 days ago. It may not affect the member's workflows 
here as I have not seen response to that message.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

On Nov 8, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> Sam McCandless schreef:
>> Just an FYI link I don't remember seeing previously:
>>
>> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml>
>>
>> Sam
>>
>
> I have mentioned it 3 days ago.

Thanks, Ernst. I've now found your post, but I had neglected to read  
the link and lost sight of it until I stumbled across it looking for  
something else on L-L.


> It may not affect the member's workflows
> here as I have not seen response to that message.

I guess not.
--
Sam

This has been a huge issue for me, and I was really excited to see a workaround.  Only problem is, something isn't meshing here.  Before I read the workaround I had been printing from a demo version of CS4 for the PC, as the no color management problems aren't present there.  Now the targets I'm printing from the mac via the workaround don't match those I printed from the PC... I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what's going on here. 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless <samcc@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On Nov 8, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
> 
> > Sam McCandless schreef:
> >> Just an FYI link I don't remember seeing previously:
> >>
> >> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml>
> >>
> >> Sam
> >>
> >
> > I have mentioned it 3 days ago.
> 
> Thanks, Ernst. I've now found your post, but I had neglected to read  
> the link and lost sight of it until I stumbled across it looking for  
> something else on L-L.
> 
> 
> > It may not affect the member's workflows
> > here as I have not seen response to that message.
> 
> I guess not.
> --
> Sam
>

Don't assume a Windows and a Mac driver will print identically; for  
some printers they don't...

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Nov 8, 2009, at 12:25 PM, "CelluloidPhotography" <eric_edmondson@... 

 > wrote:

> This has been a huge issue for me, and I was really excited to see a  
> workaround.  Only problem is, something isn't meshing here.  Before  
> I read the workaround I had been printing from a demo version of CS4  
> for the PC, as the no color management problems aren't present  
> there.  Now the targets I'm printing from the mac via the workaround  
> don't match those I printed from the PC... I'm scratching my head  
> trying to figure out what's going on here.
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Sam McCandless  
> <samcc@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:
>>
>>> Sam McCandless schreef:
>>>> Just an FYI link I don't remember seeing previously:
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml>
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have mentioned it 3 days ago.
>>
>> Thanks, Ernst. I've now found your post, but I had neglected to read
>> the link and lost sight of it until I stumbled across it looking for
>> something else on L-L.
>>
>>
>>> It may not affect the member's workflows
>>> here as I have not seen response to that message.
>>
>> I guess not.
>> --
>> Sam
>>
>
>
>
>
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