Digital BW, The Print

I am located in the Uk and have used Lyson neutral quad black inks on an Epson 1160 for some time now. The  1160 I am using at this time is only about 1 year old, I bought a brand new one on ebay to replace my previous well worn printer. On ordering to restock the black ink today I discover that Lyson have discontinued this product. I did manage to obtain one 125cc K ink to keep me going for a while. I use the quadtone rip software to do my printing and am very pleased with the results. So what is the best plan to replace the inks when my current bottles are depleted. Can I replace the individual ink channels with another manufacturers ink, like MIS for example. Can I obtain any of these alternative quad inks in the UK ( no luck with google searching for this answer so far). I would appreciate ant advice and suggestions the group members may have to offer.

MIS has 1160 inksets listed at http://www.inksupply.com/ut_kits.cfm

Search by printer.

The list includes the original "UT" (UltraTone) B&W variable-tone inkset that should have 3 grays and a single cold toner in the Y position.  The list also includes monotone inksets -- FS and FSN.  The FS is medium warm and the FSN is neutral/cool.

One can also use the Eboni/Carbon-6 inksets in the 1160 as long as you know how to profile inks.

My general index is at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ The 1160 and UT inksets are too old to be listed there, but MIS might still have my write-ups and profiles.  The index page above gets you to the newer inksets.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "anthony4270" <tonyjp@...> wrote:

>
> I am located in the Uk and have used Lyson neutral quad black inks on an Epson 1160 for some time now. The  1160 I am using at this time is only about 1 year old, I bought a brand new one on ebay to replace my previous well worn printer. On ordering to restock the black ink today I discover that Lyson have discontinued this product. I did manage to obtain one 125cc K ink to keep me going for a while. I use the quadtone rip software to do my printing and am very pleased with the results. So what is the best plan to replace the inks when my current bottles are depleted. Can I replace the individual ink channels with another manufacturers ink, like MIS for example. Can I obtain any of these alternative quad inks in the UK ( no luck with google searching for this answer so far). I would appreciate ant advice and suggestions the group members may have to offer.
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:
>
> 
> MIS has 1160 inksets listed at http://www.inksupply.com/ut_kits.cfm
> 
> Search by printer.
> 
Thank you for your helpful advice. I can profile inks Ok here and have spent a good deal of time experimenting and fine tuning with various papers which adds to the frustration of learning that the inks are no longer available from Lyson. My plan is to continue to use up the stocks I have and then devise a way to flush through the CIS with new inks. I will email MIS to see what shipping issues might be involved as I am in the UK.
Best reagards
Tony P

Paul,

I just recently acquired an almost new 1160 to dedicate to B&W. I ordered  
the MIS UT-FSN ink set for it and I am using QTR to drive it. My first  
question is; I saw one of your earlier comments about longevity problems  
with an older version of the FSN inks. What do you think of the current  
version? I am considering the Eboni/Carbon-6 inks although it would be  
more rightly call Eboni/Carbon-4 in this case. So far, I am pleased with  
the tone of the FSN inks. How would the Eboni/Carbon compare? What  
dilutions would you recommend for a 4 color version? I would also consider  
Jon Cones PiezoTone inks and I don't print a lot, so the higher cost is  
not a significant factor.

Secondly, my first experiements have been on Red River Dourian Art paper  
which has been discontinued by Red River. Too bad, I really like the  
paper. Anyway, I have most of a 100 sheet box and I figure it was worth  
using. I am using an overall ink limit of 75% with black boost set to 95%.  
My ink partitions are 100, 47.5, 13, and 7. I printed the 21-step and the  
Northlight test print. On the graduated circles on the Northlight test, I  
got a beautifully smooth look. I measured the 21-step print with a  
Colorvision spectrocolorimeter, plugged the values into QTR's  
linearization, and reprinted the same tests. The prints were generally  
lighter overall, with more separation in the dark areas. The problem is  
that graduated circles now show some pronounced steps, not at all as  
smooth as the un-linearized print. Have you seen this and what should I do  
to try to fix this? I am not adverse to bringing the data from the .quad  
file into Excel and trying to just lower all the points, except the very  
black, by a given percentage. Would you think this is a viable technique?  
I know it would require some experimentation, bu hey, that's why I got  
this printer, to experiment!

Thanks,
Steve

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:11:47 -0800, pr_roark <paul.roark@...>  
wrote:

>
> MIS has 1160 inksets listed at http://www.inksupply.com/ut_kits.cfm
>
> Search by printer.
>
> The list includes the original "UT" (UltraTone) B&W variable-tone inkset  
> that should have 3 grays and a single cold toner in the Y position.  The  
> list also includes monotone inksets -- FS and FSN.  The FS is medium  
> warm and the FSN is neutral/cool.
>
> One can also use the Eboni/Carbon-6 inksets in the 1160 as long as you  
> know how to profile inks.
>
> My general index is at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ The 1160 and UT  
> inksets are too old to be listed there, but MIS might still have my  
> write-ups and profiles.  The index page above gets you to the newer  
> inksets.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

"Steve and Ann Taylor" <taylorfamily3688@...> wrote:

...
> I just recently acquired an almost new 1160 to dedicate to B&W.

> I ordered the MIS UT-FSN ink set for it ...

> I saw one of your earlier comments about longevity problems
> with an older version of the FSN inks.
> What do you think of the current version?

The "pre-UT" generation of B&W inksets often were based on a carbon black that had dye added -- about 8% in what I most often used.

With the "UltraTone" generation of MIS inks, 100% carbon inks with pigment colors started to be used. So, the weakness now is color fade -- including differential fade that shifts the print tones. All B&W inksets that are color inks blended with carbon will suffer from this. However, it'll take a long time for the good ones. So, for most uses and indoor display I think they are fine.


> I am considering the Eboni/Carbon-6 inks although it would be
> more rightly call Eboni/Carbon-4 in this case. ...

> How would the Eboni/Carbon compare?

100% carbon is in a class by itself -- no color means no significant tone shifts in the image. (And it's easy to profile, smooth, and with Carbon-6, incredibly cheap.)

The paper is the limiting factor in carbon printing. My main target papers will remain Premier Art Smooth Bright White for neutral/cool and Arches for medium warm fine art.

The PA BW will warm with age due to the brighteners burning out. However, it'll move in a predictable and tonally acceptable path -- warming with a roughly straight line to warmer -- not shifting too much into the green region.  It'll end up being like its non-brightened sibling, the paper that is used for the Epson/Premier Art
Scrapbook paper. So, the image will warm, but to a look that is very similar to the medium warm tones I like anyway.

One of the tricks to a good B&W inkset is controlling the tone shift path as the colors change. Frankly, I gave up. There are just too many variables for me to bother with given the 100% approach I've found that is better.   

> What dilutions would you recommend for a 4 color version?

100%, 30%, 9%, 2% or 6%. The 1160 can probably handle the 6%.

Actually, I'd test the "EZ" formula: all 3 midtones at 13.5% (M & LC at 1:1). On the C88 it's amazing how smooth it is when the inks are started sequentially.  For ease of maintenance, these "EZ" systems with a CIS are hard to beat. I'm not sure the 1160 is up to it, however.


(I'll look at the other issues later.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Although this may be like asking how long is a piece of string, in my own case I ended up veering away from a dedicated black only printer as I needed colour printing capabilities as well, and could not run to two printers at the time. In view of the way that this and other recent similar threads have gone, I am wondering if I should reconsider my position, especially if so many people really are happy with the results from lower end printers when used with UltraTone, Eboni, etc inks, with those inks (with or without CIS systems) forming .the major part of the expenditure. As I have never even seen an 1160 printer, what other budget printers can people recommend please? I believe, for instance, that a lot of the Canon and HP printers have 4 picolitre heads, whereas a lot of the Epsons have 1.5 (like me existing R360) or even 1.0 picolitre ones.

Thank you,

TonyW.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: pr_roark 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:35 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Replacement for Lyson Quad Black inks - Suggestions requested


    


  "Steve and Ann Taylor" <taylorfamily3688@...> wrote:

  ...
  > I just recently acquired an almost new 1160 to dedicate to B&W.

  > I ordered the MIS UT-FSN ink set for it ...

  > I saw one of your earlier comments about longevity problems
  > with an older version of the FSN inks.
  > What do you think of the current version?

  The "pre-UT" generation of B&W inksets often were based on a carbon black that had dye added -- about 8% in what I most often used.

  With the "UltraTone" generation of MIS inks, 100% carbon inks with pigment colors started to be used. So, the weakness now is color fade -- including differential fade that shifts the print tones. All B&W inksets that are color inks blended with carbon will suffer from this. However, it'll take a long time for the good ones. So, for most uses and indoor display I think they are fine.

  > I am considering the Eboni/Carbon-6 inks although it would be
  > more rightly call Eboni/Carbon-4 in this case. ...

  > How would the Eboni/Carbon compare?

  100% carbon is in a class by itself -- no color means no significant tone shifts in the image. (And it's easy to profile, smooth, and with Carbon-6, incredibly cheap.)

  The paper is the limiting factor in carbon printing. My main target papers will remain Premier Art Smooth Bright White for neutral/cool and Arches for medium warm fine art.

  The PA BW will warm with age due to the brighteners burning out. However, it'll move in a predictable and tonally acceptable path -- warming with a roughly straight line to warmer -- not shifting too much into the green region. It'll end up being like its non-brightened sibling, the paper that is used for the Epson/Premier Art
  Scrapbook paper. So, the image will warm, but to a look that is very similar to the medium warm tones I like anyway.

  One of the tricks to a good B&W inkset is controlling the tone shift path as the colors change. Frankly, I gave up. There are just too many variables for me to bother with given the 100% approach I've found that is better. 

  > What dilutions would you recommend for a 4 color version?

  100%, 30%, 9%, 2% or 6%. The 1160 can probably handle the 6%.

  Actually, I'd test the "EZ" formula: all 3 midtones at 13.5% (M & LC at 1:1). On the C88 it's amazing how smooth it is when the inks are started sequentially. For ease of maintenance, these "EZ" systems with a CIS are hard to beat. I'm not sure the 1160 is up to it, however.

  (I'll look at the other issues later.)

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A note of caution - in the past Lyson inks have been incompatible with other inks and flushing with cleaning carts has been necessary when changing to something like MIS inks.  Not taking this precaution can result in a clogged printhead.

--- On Mon, 12/14/09, pr_roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

From: pr_roark <paul.roark@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Replacement for Lyson Quad Black inks - Suggestions requested
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 14, 2009, 6:11 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      

MIS has 1160 inksets listed at http://www.inksuppl y.com/ut_ kits.cfm



Search by printer.



The list includes the original "UT" (UltraTone) B&W variable-tone inkset that should have 3 grays and a single cold toner in the Y position.  The list also includes monotone inksets -- FS and FSN.  The FS is medium warm and the FSN is neutral/cool.



One can also use the Eboni/Carbon- 6 inksets in the 1160 as long as you know how to profile inks.



My general index is at http://www.paulroar k.com/BW- Info/ The 1160 and UT inksets are too old to be listed there, but MIS might still have my write-ups and profiles.  The index page above gets you to the newer inksets.



Paul

www.PaulRoark. com 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, "anthony4270" <tonyjp@...> wrote:

>

> I am located in the Uk and have used Lyson neutral quad black inks on an Epson 1160 for some time now. The  1160 I am using at this time is only about 1 year old, I bought a brand new one on ebay to replace my previous well worn printer. On ordering to restock the black ink today I discover that Lyson have discontinued this product. I did manage to obtain one 125cc K ink to keep me going for a while. I use the quadtone rip software to do my printing and am very pleased with the results. So what is the best plan to replace the inks when my current bottles are depleted. Can I replace the individual ink channels with another manufacturers ink, like MIS for example. Can I obtain any of these alternative quad inks in the UK ( no luck with google searching for this answer so far). I would appreciate ant advice and suggestions the group members may have to offer.

>





    
     

    
    


 



  











      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]