Digital BW, The Print

With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up? Is there any info out there about this or any first hand experience by members of this group.

Thanks

On Dec 20, 2009, at 11:31 AM, wlh_1 wrote:

> With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up? Is there any info out there about this or any first hand experience by members of this group.

This ball has been bouncing around for nearly 40 years.
RC papers are junk and probably always will be junk.
Every few years the manufacturers of RC papers announce that their terrible products are new and improved and will now last longer.
This is usually true. But they are only new and improved and longer lasting in relation to their previous, incredibly horrible quality.
A better class of horrible is still horrible.

David Kachel



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've seen resin coatings turn brittle and shatter off the paper in  
window exposure tests. So you would need to see testing results for  
the specific paper...

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Dec 20, 2009, at 12:31 PM, "wlh_1" <will@...> wrote:

> With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how  
> do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up? Is there any  
> info out there about this or any first hand experience by members of  
> this group.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
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The Wilhelm tests indicate that some of them do very well.  However, I would not count on those tests being very reliable.  In my view there are just too many variables. 

I looked into accelerated age testing briefly, and most of it appears to be rather speculative.  The most common tests do not appear to do cycling through both humidity and temperature changes that would cause the differential expansion and the cracking that, in the real world, I think I see with very old photos.  The photo digital restoration work I've done for the local museum and some individuals indicates to me that micro-cracking of coated media is a real problem.  But, I'm not a conservation expert.  I hope some of them chime in on this issue.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


Cdtobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>
> I've seen resin coatings turn brittle and shatter off the paper in  
> window exposure tests. ...
 
>  "wlh_1" <will@...> wrote:
> 
> > With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how  
> > do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up?

RC Papers commonly use Titanium dioxide as the whitening agent embedded in the Resin layer (typically polyethylene) just below the image receiver layer. When low levels of light strike the TiO2, free radicals are released that eventually embrittle the resin coating. The prints become much more susceptible to cracking when the plasticity of the coatings is reduced. This embrittlement process is very hard to reproduce in accelerated testing because it takes relatively low levels of light over sustained periods of time to cause it rather than high light doses, plus as Paul suggested, there is a temperature and relative humidity cycling component that physically induces the cracking. 

The phenomenon was first brought to the attention of the photo industry through notable field failures occurring within a fewf years after the introduction of RC papers (they were developed for rapid photo processing in the late 1960s). Since that time, the RC paper technology has been greatly improved by adding anti-oxidants into the resin, and current opinion in the photo conservation field is that modern RC papers should hold up for 50-100 years under "normal" display conditions before cracking. Note that some RC inkjet papers additionally suffer from poor adhesion of the ink receptor coating to the RC base layer. I suspect CD Tobie has witnessed one or two of those horrid events as have I. 

Also, as Paul suggested, prints that have coatings are a composite system whereby the combination of layers can be stressed by environmental cycles, generally RH cycles more than temperature, but both will induce internal stresses within the layers that can ultimately lead to microcracks which then ultimately lead to bigger more visible cracks.

I wrote a paper discussing the envrionemental cycling issue among other factors concerning the care of photographs in 1996.  Although it addressed traditional photos with gelatin layers, the findings are still widely applcable to modern inkjet media (indeed swellable polymer inkjet papers are comprised of highly soluble gelatin). The mechanical tests needed to calculate internal layer stresses to my knowledge have not been done on modern microporous coatings. My guess is the results would be fairly consistent with other coated paper systems. My technical paper entitled "The Allowable Temperature and Relative Humidity Range for the Safe Use and Storage of Photographic Materials" can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com//cgi-bin/mrk/_4820ZGxkLzBeMjAwMDAwMDAwMTIzNDU2Nzg5LyoyMQ==

regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic it is just the kind of information I was looking for. It is such a wonderful resource to have members of such expertise available and willing to give their time and knowledge to the community. Bravo!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> RC Papers commonly use Titanium dioxide as the whitening agent embedded in the Resin layer (typically polyethylene) just below the image receiver layer. When low levels of light strike the TiO2, free radicals are released that eventually embrittle the resin coating. The prints become much more susceptible to cracking when the plasticity of the coatings is reduced. This embrittlement process is very hard to reproduce in accelerated testing because it takes relatively low levels of light over sustained periods of time to cause it rather than high light doses, plus as Paul suggested, there is a temperature and relative humidity cycling component that physically induces the cracking. 
> 
> The phenomenon was first brought to the attention of the photo industry through notable field failures occurring within a fewf years after the introduction of RC papers (they were developed for rapid photo processing in the late 1960s). Since that time, the RC paper technology has been greatly improved by adding anti-oxidants into the resin, and current opinion in the photo conservation field is that modern RC papers should hold up for 50-100 years under "normal" display conditions before cracking. Note that some RC inkjet papers additionally suffer from poor adhesion of the ink receptor coating to the RC base layer. I suspect CD Tobie has witnessed one or two of those horrid events as have I. 
> 
> Also, as Paul suggested, prints that have coatings are a composite system whereby the combination of layers can be stressed by environmental cycles, generally RH cycles more than temperature, but both will induce internal stresses within the layers that can ultimately lead to microcracks which then ultimately lead to bigger more visible cracks.
> 
> I wrote a paper discussing the envrionemental cycling issue among other factors concerning the care of photographs in 1996.  Although it addressed traditional photos with gelatin layers, the findings are still widely applcable to modern inkjet media (indeed swellable polymer inkjet papers are comprised of highly soluble gelatin). The mechanical tests needed to calculate internal layer stresses to my knowledge have not been done on modern microporous coatings. My guess is the results would be fairly consistent with other coated paper systems. My technical paper entitled "The Allowable Temperature and Relative Humidity Range for the Safe Use and Storage of Photographic Materials" can be downloaded for free here:
> 
> http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com//cgi-bin/mrk/_4820ZGxkLzBeMjAwMDAwMDAwMTIzNDU2Nzg5LyoyMQ==
> 
> regards,
> Mark
> http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
>

Mark,

What do you know about the brighteners being used by Breathing Color in their Chromata canvas products? I've been meaning to ask you that for a year now.

They claim these brighteners of theirs are revolutionary and don't suffer the same burnout issues as obas. Are they just kidding us or,  is there some potential for other papers using this kind of whiter?

john





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> RC Papers commonly use Titanium dioxide as the whitening agent embedded in the Resin layer (typically polyethylene) just below the image receiver layer. When low levels of light strike the TiO2, free radicals are released that eventually embrittle the resin coating. The prints become much more susceptible to cracking when the plasticity of the coatings is reduced.

Before digital We used to sell expensive quality prints on fibre papers and cheap ones on resin coated. The RC ones often turned brown after a couple of years. Need I say more?
Jules


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wlh_1" <will@...> wrote:

>
> With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up? Is there any info out there about this or any first hand experience by members of this group.
> 
> Thanks
>

Gee, I have some 30 year old RC prints and no brown. They might have  
not been fixed and washed enough. Not that that should take more then  
a few minutes. Might be the environment they were stored in?

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:52 PM, Jules wrote:

> The RC ones often turned brown after a couple of years.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john" <deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> 
> What do you know about the brighteners being used by Breathing Color in their Chromata canvas products? I've been meaning to ask you that for a year now.

Inspection by UV blacklight reveals that the Chromata White Canvas has no fluorescing compounds in the coating, but somewhat surprizingly there are OBAs in the canvas itself. This is another example (its not just Breathing Color) that will refer to a product as OBA free when they really mean none are present in the top coat.  Usually, products that are OBA-free in the top coat do pretty well in my tests even if they aren't technically OBA-free. 

You will learn pretty much what you need to know by looking at the UV-included/UV-excluded measurements I make on the samples in test at AaI&A. That information is listed in a table on the description page in each report.  When the delta b* values calculated by comparing the UV-exc/UV-inc measurments (also listed in the tables) is less than approximately 3.0, OBA burnout from light exposure of gas fading won't result in strong "discoloration" but for papers that tip the scales over 3.0 in these tables I provide, one is wise to consider alternative papers if longevity and freedom from preferential edge discoloration is important to you.

kind regards

Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:
>
> Gee, I have some 30 year old RC prints and no brown. They might have  
> not been fixed and washed enough. Not that that should take more then  
> a few minutes. Might be the environment they were stored in?
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:52 PM, Jules wrote:
> 
> > The RC ones often turned brown after a couple of years.
>


Yes, I too, have some RC prints I made over 25 years ago, framed and always having been on display, and they are still crack free with only subtle yellowing in the media white point. This subtle yellowing has to do with the color coupler technology of that era. After "perfect" processing, these color coupling compounds that form the dyes in the first place still remain, and eventually yellow.  That's not an RC base issue as much as it it a chromogenic color print technology issue. Moreover, when you see very strong discoloration such as brown or grayish-brown media white, this is also not an RC base issue. It's exhausted bleach-fix whereby the processed silver (which creates oxidized developing compounds to trigger the color coupler-dye formation) is inadequately bleached back to silver halide and the silver halide inadequately removed by the fixer. Again, not really an RC base issue.  The RC base problem is largely cracking in the polyethylene layer due to the TiO2 whitening agent forming free radicals upon extended exposure to low light levels. The cracking is eventually going to be more severe than we see in traditional fiber prints, but traditional fiber prints are also prone to cracking in the gelatin layers if exposed to strong seasonal cycles of high to low Relative humidity, i.e., the kind of cycling that is largely unavoidable in buildings situated in cold winter climates combined with humid summer climates.

Mark
http://www/aardenburg-imaging.com

On Dec 21, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Mark wrote:

> Inspection by UV blacklight reveals that the Chromata White Canvas  
> has no fluorescing compounds in the coating, but somewhat  
> surprizingly there are OBAs in the canvas itself.

Not unusual, as recycled cotton (rag) typically has brighteners in it  
from a previous life...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...


  ----------



Datacolor
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I should also mention I was talking about RC color prints only when I said the RC base problem is largely cracking of the PE layer. For RC B&W prints, those free-radicals also generate peroxides which then attack the silver particles in RC B&W prints. Selenium toning prevents this problem but few RC B&W prints are ever chemically toned because the additional toning step is somewhat at odds with the convenience of rapid processing. Most print processors aren't set up to add an additional toning step. It has to be done by hand in a tray.

When the silver particles are attacked by the peroxides you see all sorts of weird tarnishing and "halo" effects around high to low density areas in the BW RC prints. Not very pretty unless you like abstract art!

Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

"Mark" <mark@...> wrote:

> 
> RC Papers commonly use Titanium dioxide as the whitening agent ...  When low levels of light strike the TiO2, free radicals are released that eventually embrittle the resin coating...


I've experimmented a bit with TiO2 on the Arches to accomplish localized and controlled brightening (to subtly pull the eye into the print).

Do you think the TiO2 would pose a risk to either the Arches or carbon pigment?


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

If they were properly processed they held up very well indeed.  The 
other day I was looking through a series of RC 8x10s I made 35 years 
ago-- shots I'd taken of my mother, who passed away in 2007-- and 
they're in superb condition.  

I've seen plenty of prints, both RC and fiber, with chemical staining, 
bleached out areas, tonal shifts, and even the surface flaking away, and 
it always comes back to their having been incompetently or carelessly 
processed-- left far too long in the fixer, inadequately washed, etc. 

For many years I've had hanging on a wall in my home office the first 
print I ever made in my first darkroom-- I was 14 at the time, and it 
was a winter closeup I'd taken in the woods of an unusually-shaped 
icicle.  That print has survived not only a lot of years, but 
considerable UV assault, as two of the room's walls are glass, one with 
a southern exposure and the other to the west looking directly out over 
the ocean.  The print's in great shape. 

But I was taught darkroom procedure by a demanding pro who was an 
absolute perfectionist and couldn't abide or in any way tolerate sloppy 
work or cut corners.  And thank G-d for that.

Take care,

Shoshanna
Gold Beach - South Coast of Oregon
http://www.pbase.com/shoshanna




.
Jules wrote:
>  
>
>
> Before digital We used to sell expensive quality prints on fibre 
> papers and cheap ones on resin coated. The RC ones often turned brown 
> after a couple of years. Need I say more?
> Jules
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, "wlh_1" 
> <will@...> wrote:
> >
> > With all of the talk about longevity of papers I was wondering how 
> do Resin Coated (RC) photo(inkjet) papers stack up? Is there any info 
> out there about this or any first hand experience by members of this 
> group.
> >
> > Thanks
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pr_roark schreef:
> "Mark" <mark@...> wrote:
> 
>> RC Papers commonly use Titanium dioxide as the whitening agent ...  When low levels of light strike the TiO2, free radicals are released that eventually embrittle the resin coating...
> 
> 
> I've experimmented a bit with TiO2 on the Arches to accomplish localized and controlled brightening (to subtly pull the eye into the print).
> 
> Do you think the TiO2 would pose a risk to either the Arches or carbon pigment?
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 

I'm sure Mark has a more thorough reply,

I think the answer to that is more complex. Before barite was introduced 
in inkjet papers TiO2 was used and still is used as a whitener in all 
kinds of inkjet papers. So the addition of TiO2 may not be that 
problematic. It is in its use in the polyethylene barriers of RC papers 
where the problem lies. Polyethylene has many nice qualities but it can 
oxydise, it isn't very UV stable and it doesn't create an easy bond with 
other materials. Since the seventies there has been a lot done to 
improve the RC papers. Other TiO2 versions (anatase-rutile), blendings 
of TiO2 and other whiteners, copolymeres instead of pure polyethylene.

BTW,  RC papers show better results than non-RC papers if ozone fading 
of colorants is measured. Dye and pigments.  Colorants including OBA 
dyes, and the influence depending where the OBA is located in the sandwich.

It has been discussed before on other lists and there has been a thread 
on the subject here when the first barite papers were introduced.
Question then was whether barite would be a better component in inkjet 
papers than TiO2. I thought it wasn't and I do not think that has changed.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


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