Paul,
Thank you for taking the time, this is most helpful.
>...in general, the simply way to compare warmth is with the Lab B (yellow-warm positive, blue-cool negative) numbers. Lab A (red/magenta-warm positive, green negative)...
Ok, this is like the ABW color circle, I can visualize it.
> With respect to Lab A, usually the paper manufacturers set a slight positive Lab A value and the inks or profiles keep that relatively level or slightly rising from the paper white through the midtones. I think in B&W we really want to avoid a negative Lab A, as it'll give the print a greenish tint. On the other hand, a Lab A that is a bit more elevated is what we'd call a light "selenium" tone. The Premier Art Smooth BW that I like has a relatively high Lab A, and with an image like my Disney Concert Center, it gives that metallic exterior building a true metal look.
Understood. Amazing that they have that much control.
>But for simplicity, Lab B is the main variable. It's not just the absolute Lab B value, however, that matters. The eye will do a "white balance" on whatever large white area is around. So, if you're displaying with typical natural (not bright) white matte board, that will, roughly and typically, have a Lab B=3 or more. So, that becomes your white reference.
> So, when a natural paper has a Lab B = 1 and the image peaks out at Lab B = 3, the image is going to look quite neutral.
This explains a lot, thank you. I get the concept, the numbers don't automatically have meaning yet, it needs real world experience to make the connection.
> With respect to the Alise Natural, even when I have the test strip on my desk along with brightened typing paper, the paper looks creamy, but the image looks fairly neutral.
Yes, I've noticed that. It's really an interesting paper. I'm seeing subtle things in the prints that I really like. I'm printing an entire portrait job with it and the results so far are outstanding. I will be very pleased to present them to the clients.
>> If you can nail down an exact Dmax value I'll add it to my chart.
>
>This varies not only with the ink, but also paper batch, printer, and how long the MK has "cured." I suspect our spectros also vary.
Steve mentioned hearing that this paper need curing time, so I waited 4 or 5 days before taking my prints over there. I have no idea how accurate his device is. Its a Colorvision Spectro Colorimeter. I'm well aware how attributes can vary among batches (in ink as well!).
But I think you know my Paper Chase page is not promoted as a technical information site, but is just for general comparison purposes. Since I gave in to demands and began using actual Dmax numbers I'm stuck with that and need a number. In your last post you said mid 1.7's. Are you comfortable with me posting 1.75 for Eboni with a caveat about the fickleness of these readings?
>>>Quite a paper.
>> Yes indeed. Do you know of any other non-OBA paper with this kind of Dmax?
>
>No, I've use a lot of Premier Art Smooth Fine Art 325, and with some printers I've seen a dmax of 1.69 with it. On other printers or with different batches, it can be in the low 1.60's...
This has been my experience, mid 1.60's at best.
>>... this stuff blows everything else out of the water and it's less inexpensive as well. Imahappycamper <g>.
>
> Yes, Premier Art may become a bigger player with this one...With paper they've been innovators and heavy into the longevity issue.
That's good to hear.
>The Smooth BW I like, for example, does use OBAs, but the paper actually meets the silver print standards for the use of such.
It's been a source of frustration to me for a long time that people lump all OBAs together in a blanket judgement and are unwilling to rate a paper on it's individual merits. It's easy to understand, of course, because there has never been a reliable source of trustworthy information. Trade secrets, I guess.
>They managed to negotiate a dual name with Epson on the "Epson Premier Art Scrapbook" paper, which may be Epson's most archival. I think this enhances their credibility in that area, which, of course, was the point. The Smooth BW that I use is, I'm told, the Scrapbook paper base with OBAs added to the coating.
Very interesting. Well, I hope they do well because I want this paper to stay around for a long time. And maybe they will be the ones to find a way to push matte paper Dmax even higher...
> By the way, I've found one source of some of the variables in my measurements. The OBAs of typing paper under a sample being read influence the spectro measurments. I now read only on a natural mat board.
Amazing. Steve will be interested to hear that.
Thanks very much, Paul. This makes me feel that we're on the verge of a major technical breakthrough (which I've been hoping for for a long time). I still like the matte papers best, just can't get into the Photo papers - can't stand the glare.
Regards,
Clayton
Info on black and white digital printing at
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1 http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm