Digital BW, The Print

I am pretty sure that everyone interested in ink mixing has read Paul's article with great delight and enjoyed the journey.
From my perspektive the open question is what do we really need to prepare a base solution.
The mixture that Paul is using contain Kodak Photo Flo and Edwal LFN.
Kodak Photo Flo has been for a long time in our darkroom. Newer wetting agents such as Edwal LFN and other have shown superior performance.
To my knowledge Kodak Photo Plo consists of two major ingredients: Propan-12-diol and a Triton X100 (Surfactant from Dow).
Edwal LFN is a newer "low foam" wetting agent that consists of Isopropyl Alcohol and same sort of surfactant (probably like Plurafac LF 901 from BASF ?)
Coming back to my question - what do we really need ?
Do we need all these different surfactants are does a single one like Terigitol 15-S-7 (Paul uses some for printing on watercolour paper (my favourite media)).

Any thought and insight on this topic is highly appreciated.

Hi,

So they are all cheap, pretty easy to obtain, and we need just a small
amount, so I just add them all - based on Paul's experience,  I don't think
there is any downside and there seems to be upside.

I note you are emailing from Yahoo.de -  if you need EU sources just ask.

Cheers,

Mike

On 7 March 2010 21:24, mypaulmay <mypaulmay@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I am pretty sure that everyone interested in ink mixing has read Paul's
> article with great delight and enjoyed the journey.
> From my perspektive the open question is what do we really need to prepare
> a base solution.
> The mixture that Paul is using contain Kodak Photo Flo and Edwal LFN.
> Kodak Photo Flo has been for a long time in our darkroom. Newer wetting
> agents such as Edwal LFN and other have shown superior performance.
> To my knowledge Kodak Photo Plo consists of two major ingredients:
> Propan-12-diol and a Triton X100 (Surfactant from Dow).
> Edwal LFN is a newer "low foam" wetting agent that consists of Isopropyl
> Alcohol and same sort of surfactant (probably like Plurafac LF 901 from BASF
> ?)
> Coming back to my question - what do we really need ?
> Do we need all these different surfactants are does a single one like
> Terigitol 15-S-7 (Paul uses some for printing on watercolour paper (my
> favourite media)).
>
> Any thought and insight on this topic is highly appreciated.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Awhile back someone suggested just mixing ink with glop but I never heard of
the results. MIS sell Base by the gallon but I think Paul questioned if it
would work with Eboni and or HP. 

Gary Wagner

garywagner.com

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mypaulmay
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 1:25 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Ink Mixing - Some basic thoughts / questions

 

  


I am pretty sure that everyone interested in ink mixing has read Paul's
article with great delight and enjoyed the journey.
From my perspektive the open question is what do we really need to prepare a
base solution.
The mixture that Paul is using contain Kodak Photo Flo and Edwal LFN.
Kodak Photo Flo has been for a long time in our darkroom. Newer wetting
agents such as Edwal LFN and other have shown superior performance.
To my knowledge Kodak Photo Plo consists of two major ingredients:
Propan-12-diol and a Triton X100 (Surfactant from Dow).
Edwal LFN is a newer "low foam" wetting agent that consists of Isopropyl
Alcohol and same sort of surfactant (probably like Plurafac LF 901 from BASF
?)
Coming back to my question - what do we really need ?
Do we need all these different surfactants are does a single one like
Terigitol 15-S-7 (Paul uses some for printing on watercolour paper (my
favourite media)).

Any thought and insight on this topic is highly appreciated.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Gary " <gary@...> wrote:
>
> Awhile back someone suggested just mixing ink with glop but 
> I never heard of the results. MIS sell Base by the gallon 
> but I think Paul questioned if it would work with Eboni and or HP. 

MIS Glop (gloss optimizer) is a good glossy base for their standard glossy-compatible pigments.  However, since the MIS price for glop is the same as for the pre-mixed dilutions, there doesn't seem to be much point in doing it yourself.

I tried glop with Eboni, and it did not print smoothly.

Some have used glop to dilute HP PK, and it appears to make dilute inks that have less bronzing than when the HP PK is diluted with the C6 types of generic base I use.  In fact, I think the HP PK diluted midtones have less bronzing than the HP-diluted midtone grays.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

pr_roark schreef:

   In fact, I think the HP PK diluted
> midtones have less bronzing than the HP-diluted midtone grays.
> 
> Paul www.PaulRoark.com

Wonder why HP didn't use that but it could be that the properties on 
matt papers are not better.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


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Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
>
> pr_roark schreef:
> 
> >   In fact, I think the HP PK diluted [with MIS glop]
> >  midtones have less bronzing than the HP-diluted [OEM] 
> > midtone grays.
> > 

 
> Wonder why HP didn't use that but it could be that the 
> properties on matt papers are not better.
> 

HP uses their version on glop in a separate nozzle.  

Overall, I think I agree with Epson and HP that coated pigments have advantages.  One of the most obvious advantages is that they retain their gloss on that type of paper much better than the MIS approach, though many prefer the lower gloss of the MIS approach. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

pr_roark schreef:

> HP uses their version on glop in a separate nozzle.
> 
> Overall, I think I agree with Epson and HP that coated pigments have
> advantages.  One of the most obvious advantages is that they retain
> their gloss on that type of paper much better than the MIS approach,
> though many prefer the lower gloss of the MIS approach.
> 
> Paul www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 

Of course there is the gloss enhancer. If that does the job to keep
gloss differential and bronzing away then it may also allow the use of a
more thixotropic medium in the inks themselves to reduce bleeding on 
matte papers.
Which should be an aspect to take into account if a custom inkset is 
used on gloss and matt papers.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst


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