Doepfer

"Fascinating..."    :-)
seriously, thank you Florian, that is a lot of great technical info i wasn't aware of, especially in context of this recent vocoder-thread. i've only ever played around with digital vocoding (currently i have vocoding covered by a V-Synth GT & microKorg, and the built-in plug-ins in Reason & DP).
i was particularly interested in the "lag" aspect re: analog vs digital with regard to percussion fx, good to know ("vocoding with percussion" is one of those things on "The 10,000 Things I Really Wanna Gotta Try Someday List"...).
specific question for your (and anyone's) expertise and experience: how do software/computer-based plug-in digital vocoders compare with hardware digital units when it comes to such timing issues? i imagine with plug-ins/dsp there are coding tricks one could do to tweak things to work faster, or at least seem to, especially on a pc with enough horsepower (though at the end of the day, analog will always be better than digital for certan things since no amount of clever coding can match the Laws of Thermodynamics messing with raw voltage in a physical circuit in real time).
and i agree that, if Dieter were to do a new analog vocoding system it should be a newer, better, more variable & capable updated unit, not just a nostagia-flashback recreation of older tech. but, as with Florian, "...that's just, y'know, like, uh, my opinion, man..."  ;-)
-chris

(ps- total non sequitur and irrelevant to the group, apologies to all, but Florian: i got the Roland book last month... very nice! :-)  just *slightly* disappointed that, of all my Roland gear, i only have one thing that's in the book - my 707, which is currently dead, but resurrectable with proper soldering skills - though a JX-3P was one of the first synths i ever got my hands on over 30 years ago, and i did have a 505 as a loaner for a while... and though i don't have a Jupiter 8, i do have an MKS80/MPG80.... ok i've gone completely off the rails here, shutting up now!!!  ^_^  )



      From: "Florian Anwander fanwander@mnet-online.de [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
 To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:27 AM
 Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Vocoder
   
I owned a MAM VF-11, a A-129 System and a Roland SVC-325. I sold them 
all, and own now an Electrix WarpFactory, a Alesis Metavox and the 
NordModular. All three are digital

I have to say: for any standard voice orientated vocoding, I would use 
always a digital vocoder. They sound not only way better. No, they are 
miles ahead. What the Electrix does is incredible. Price on ebay is 
between 170 and 230 Euros.

If I would want an analogue vocoder again, then only because digital 
vocoders have a timelag, which annoys if you use percussive sounds for 
the modulator.


The other argument for an analogue vocoder would be its patchability. I 
really appreciated the A-129-2 as VC filterbank. Also the 129-1 as 
frequency selective envelope follower is nice, but a A-119 with a 
multimode filter does usually a better job.

But I always missed other features on the A-129 system. For instance I 
do find the fixed centerfrequencies of the filterbands as very limiting. 
They are trimmed to hit the typical resonance frequencies of vocals. And 
even worse: they are trimmed to hit the typical resonance frequencies of 
german vocals. I once wanted to use the voice of a turkish speaker, but 
turkish vocals are much darker than german ones. The vocoding with the 
A-129 was disappointing. I don't blame Dieter for it, but it is 
something that should be kept in mind, if someone designs a new vocoder.

What I would want is a vocoder with VC-Bandpasses in the analysis and 
synthesis section. The center frequency of each band should be 
adjustable in a certain range, it should be possible to shift the center 
frequencies of the whole bank and also one could adjust the spread of 
the bands. Also I'd like to have the resonance adjustable.

So I doubt that a "simple vocoder" on analog basis does make sense. The 
recent three auctions for an Alesis Metavox here were between 45 and 109 
Euros (and the Metavox sounds at a least as good as the MAM or a Korg 
VC10).  Beat that price with analogue gear.

If someone ever will build an analog vocoder, then it should be more 
sophisticated than the A-129.

Just my 2cts.

Florian




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