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Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter impressions?

Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter impressions?

2008-01-03 by Ross Goniakowski

thanks for the reply...

were  you refereing to the Doepfer Vactrol phaser? indeed, too expensive for me!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----
From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:54:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter impressions?

hello Ross,

i like its sound and use it very often.
lately, i am using the modular phaser more, but it has
a much higher price...
anyway, the 125 is a good phaser with a good price.
best regards,
Bakis.

--- Ross Goniakowski <carfull@sbcglobal. net> wrote:

> i can't find any audio examples on the net..the only
> analog phase shifters i've heard are the EH Small
> Stone and the MXR Phase 90, i'm interested in at
> least as good quality ...i'm covered on the digital
> end, but i want the ability to patch in to my
> Doepfer system, and there are some used mods
> available atm...
> 
> thanks,
> rg
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel -worlds-music. com
http://www.myspace. com/parallelworl dsmusic
http://www.myspace. com/interconnect edmusic
http://www.myspace. com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN. org.uk
http://www.musicama ximamagnetica. com
http://www.shimarec ords.co.uk
http://www.rubber. gr
Athens-Greece

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Looking for last minute shopping deals? 
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools. search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category= shopping



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter impressions?

2008-01-03 by Bakis Sirros

yes, i waa refering to the vactrol modular phaser.
best regards,
Bakis.


--- Ross Goniakowski <carfull@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> thanks for the reply...
> 
> were  you refereing to the Doepfer Vactrol phaser?
> indeed, too expensive for me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:54:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter
> impressions?
> 
> hello Ross,
> 
> i like its sound and use it very often.
> lately, i am using the modular phaser more, but it
> has
> a much higher price...
> anyway, the 125 is a good phaser with a good price.
> best regards,
> Bakis.
> 
> --- Ross Goniakowski <carfull@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
> 
> > i can't find any audio examples on the net..the
> only
> > analog phase shifters i've heard are the EH Small
> > Stone and the MXR Phase 90, i'm interested in at
> > least as good quality ...i'm covered on the
> digital
> > end, but i want the ability to patch in to my
> > Doepfer system, and there are some used mods
> > available atm...
> > 
> > thanks,
> > rg
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > 
> > 
> 
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected /
> Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.parallel -worlds-music. com
> http://www.myspace. com/parallelworl dsmusic
> http://www.myspace. com/interconnect edmusic
> http://www.myspace. com/memorygeist
> http://www.DiN. org.uk
> http://www.musicama ximamagnetica. com
> http://www.shimarec ords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber. gr
> Athens-Greece
> 
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
> _________ _
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? 
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.
> search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category=
> shopping
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter impressions?

2008-01-03 by Mark Pulver

I have the A101-1 and A101-3 in my pile and they're awesome. VERY smooth 
and full. if you've never had experience with a Vactrol based piece of 
gear, you really need to. :)

Mark
------
Bakis Sirros (01:14 PM 1/3/2008) wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 >yes, i waa refering to the vactrol modular phaser.
 >best regards,
 >Bakis.
 >
 >
 >--- Ross Goniakowski <carfull@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
 >
 >> thanks for the reply...
 >>
 >> were  you refereing to the Doepfer Vactrol phaser?
 >> indeed, too expensive for me!
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> ----- Original Message ----
 >> From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
 >> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
 >> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 2:54:11 AM
 >> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-125 phase shifter
 >> impressions?
 >>
 >> hello Ross,
 >>
 >> i like its sound and use it very often.
 >> lately, i am using the modular phaser more, but it
 >> has
 >> a much higher price...
 >> anyway, the 125 is a good phaser with a good price.
 >> best regards,
 >> Bakis.
 >>
 >> --- Ross Goniakowski <carfull@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
 >>
 >> > i can't find any audio examples on the net..the
 >> only
 >> > analog phase shifters i've heard are the EH Small
 >> > Stone and the MXR Phase 90, i'm interested in at
 >> > least as good quality ...i'm covered on the
 >> digital
 >> > end, but i want the ability to patch in to my
 >> > Doepfer system, and there are some used mods
 >> > available atm...
 >> >
 >> > thanks,
 >> > rg
 >> >
 >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
 >> > removed]
 >> >
 >> >
 >>
 >> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected /
 >> Memory Geist
 >> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
 >> http://www.parallel -worlds-music. com
 >> http://www.myspace. com/parallelworl dsmusic
 >> http://www.myspace. com/interconnect edmusic
 >> http://www.myspace. com/memorygeist
 >> http://www.DiN. org.uk
 >> http://www.musicama ximamagnetica. com
 >> http://www.shimarec ords.co.uk
 >> http://www.rubber. gr
 >> Athens-Greece
 >>
 >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________
 >> _________ _
 >> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
 >> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.
 >> search.yahoo. com/newsearch/ category. php?category=
 >> shopping
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
 >> removed]
 >>
 >>
 >
 >
 >Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
 >[Doepfer_a100] group owner
 >http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
 >http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
 >http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
 >http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
 >http://www.DiN.org.uk
 >http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
 >http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
 >http://www.rubber.gr
 >Athens-Greece
 >
 >
 >
 >____________________________________________________________________________
 >________
 >Looking for last minute shopping deals?
 >Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
 >http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
 >
 >
 >
 >Yahoo! Groups Links
 >
 >
 >

[Doepfer_a100] A-131 modification questions

2008-01-04 by Anthony Rolando

Hello, is the A-131 DC or AC coupled?

Is it possible to modify A-131 to have one CV input be Exp. and the other be Linear?


Thanx,

Tony 
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec

RE: [Doepfer_a100] A-131 modification questions

2008-01-04 by Anthony Rolando

Ok, I just got home and I figured out for myself that the A-131 is AC coupled. 

Is it possible to modify it to be DC?

Tony

----------------------------------------
> To: doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: goldenechos@hotmail.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 20:05:22 -0500
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] A-131 modification questions
> 
> 
> Hello, is the A-131 DC or AC coupled?
> 
> Is it possible to modify A-131 to have one CV input be Exp. and the other be Linear?
> 
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> Tony 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
> 
>  
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_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
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[Doepfer_a100] adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-04 by Anthony Rolando

I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like to do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in the right direction? 

Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the schematic so that I could add this?

Thanx,

Tony
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007

AW: [Doepfer_a100] A-131 modification questions

2008-01-04 by hardware@doepfer.de

> Hello, is the A-131 DC or AC coupled?

The A-131- is DC coupled (unless you have the old version with CEM3381,
these were AC coupled).

> Is it possible to modify A-131 to have one CV input be Exp. and the other
be Linear?

No the current source is different for linear and exponential versions. If
you own the old version another circuit (CEM3382 instead of CEM3381) woul
have to be installed.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: [Doepfer_a100] A-131 modification questions

2008-01-04 by hardware@doepfer.de

> Ok, I just got home and I figured out for myself that the A-131 is AC
coupled.

So you own probably the first version with CEM3381. The last A-130 with
CEM3381/PA381 were manufactured ~ 2001.

> Is it possible to modify it to be DC?

No. The CEM3381/82 VCAs require AC coupling.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: [Doepfer_a100] adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-04 by hardware@doepfer.de

> I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like
> to do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in
> the right direction?
>
> Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the
> schematic so that I could add this?
>
> Thanx,
>
> Tony

This mod is mentioned in the A-101-9 user's manual on page 14. R4 has to be
replaced by 1M and the vactrol connected in parallel to the new R4. R4 is
the 100 k resistor next to the pins 8/9/10 of IC1 (TL084). I can send you a
copy of the A-145 silk screen directly if you send me an email
(hardware@doepfer.de).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by (i think you can figure that out)

You shouldn't need a vactrol at all.  There is a current limiting 100K
resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the Freq pot.  That's
the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor should be easy to
locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper, the other end goes
to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps.  That means either
pins 2, 6, 9 or 13.  That's the first thing you have to find. So you
buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the center pin of the
Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor and buzz out which
IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts to.

Once you find  point where the other side of the 100K goes to either
of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or 13...then stop
looking.  That's the one you need.

Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's output to another
resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter, start at 100K and
work down until you're happy with the response, but try not to go
lower than 47K), and connect the output of that added resistor to the
node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the output of your
resistor to the other end of the resistor on the Dopefer PCB which
comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.

That should do it.

You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well (if there's room for
both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate, not sure if there is): 

In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to one of the end
pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot is connected to
ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center pin)is connected to the
current limiter resistor you just added which I explained in the last
paragraph.

If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when turning the pot CW),
then reverse the wires coming from it's two end pins.

Not sure how the expo converter works on this particular LFO, so you
may not get linear VC response, and most definately not 1v/oct, but
this mod should work OK.

Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that would require cuts
traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete components to drive the
vactrol LED, and the VAC itself.  Basically another board will be
required. It would be more prudent just to buy a Doepfer VC LFO in my
opinion.

It's worth a skipping all that and trying this first.  

- P


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando <goldenechos@...>
wrote:
>
> 
> I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like to
do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in the
right direction? 
> 
> Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the schematic
so that I could add this?
> 
> Thanx,
> 
> Tony
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by Bakis Sirros

hello Peter,
thank you for the usefull info!
but,
i think, by using vactrols, he means by adding the
universal vactrol module A101-9. this should make the
vactrol mod much easier, i guess.
but it would probably require on more 4HP faceplate to
add the vactrol input. or not?
best regards,
Bakis.


--- "(i think you can figure that out)"
<peter@buzzclick-music.com> wrote:

> You shouldn't need a vactrol at all.  There is a
> current limiting 100K
> resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the
> Freq pot.  That's
> the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor
> should be easy to
> locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper,
> the other end goes
> to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps. 
> That means either
> pins 2, 6, 9 or 13.  That's the first thing you have
> to find. So you
> buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the
> center pin of the
> Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor
> and buzz out which
> IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts
> to.
> 
> Once you find  point where the other side of the
> 100K goes to either
> of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or
> 13...then stop
> looking.  That's the one you need.
> 
> Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's
> output to another
> resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter,
> start at 100K and
> work down until you're happy with the response, but
> try not to go
> lower than 47K), and connect the output of that
> added resistor to the
> node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the
> output of your
> resistor to the other end of the resistor on the
> Dopefer PCB which
> comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.
> 
> That should do it.
> 
> You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well
> (if there's room for
> both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate,
> not sure if there is): 
> 
> In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to
> one of the end
> pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot
> is connected to
> ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center
> pin)is connected to the
> current limiter resistor you just added which I
> explained in the last
> paragraph.
> 
> If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when
> turning the pot CW),
> then reverse the wires coming from it's two end
> pins.
> 
> Not sure how the expo converter works on this
> particular LFO, so you
> may not get linear VC response, and most definately
> not 1v/oct, but
> this mod should work OK.
> 
> Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that
> would require cuts
> traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete
> components to drive the
> vactrol LED, and the VAC itself.  Basically another
> board will be
> required. It would be more prudent just to buy a
> Doepfer VC LFO in my
> opinion.
> 
> It's worth a skipping all that and trying this
> first.  
> 
> - P
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando
> <goldenechos@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145
> LFO. I would like to
> do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to
> point me in the
> right direction? 
> > 
> > Would it be possible that I could look at a
> portion of the schematic
> so that I could add this?
> > 
> > Thanx,
> > 
> > Tony
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows
> Live.
> >
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
> >
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by Anthony Rolando

No, I was talking about adding VC without the A101-9. My suitcase is full!

Peter, thank you VERY much for the detailed info. I really appreciate it.

Funny I was just about to start breadboarding a driver circuit for the Vactrol solution... but like Peter said, "...It would be more prudent just to buy a VCLFO..."

Been spending more time Building Sound lately, and I'd like to keep it that way!

Thanx again to all who replied,

Tony



----------------------------------------
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 02:23:08 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
> 
> hello Peter,
> thank you for the usefull info!
> but,
> i think, by using vactrols, he means by adding the
> universal vactrol module A101-9. this should make the
> vactrol mod much easier, i guess.
> but it would probably require on more 4HP faceplate to
> add the vactrol input. or not?
> best regards,
> Bakis.
> 
> 
> --- "(i think you can figure that out)"
>  wrote:
> 
>> You shouldn't need a vactrol at all.  There is a
>> current limiting 100K
>> resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the
>> Freq pot.  That's
>> the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor
>> should be easy to
>> locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper,
>> the other end goes
>> to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps. 
>> That means either
>> pins 2, 6, 9 or 13.  That's the first thing you have
>> to find. So you
>> buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the
>> center pin of the
>> Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor
>> and buzz out which
>> IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts
>> to.
>> 
>> Once you find  point where the other side of the
>> 100K goes to either
>> of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or
>> 13...then stop
>> looking.  That's the one you need.
>> 
>> Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's
>> output to another
>> resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter,
>> start at 100K and
>> work down until you're happy with the response, but
>> try not to go
>> lower than 47K), and connect the output of that
>> added resistor to the
>> node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the
>> output of your
>> resistor to the other end of the resistor on the
>> Dopefer PCB which
>> comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.
>> 
>> That should do it.
>> 
>> You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well
>> (if there's room for
>> both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate,
>> not sure if there is): 
>> 
>> In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to
>> one of the end
>> pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot
>> is connected to
>> ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center
>> pin)is connected to the
>> current limiter resistor you just added which I
>> explained in the last
>> paragraph.
>> 
>> If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when
>> turning the pot CW),
>> then reverse the wires coming from it's two end
>> pins.
>> 
>> Not sure how the expo converter works on this
>> particular LFO, so you
>> may not get linear VC response, and most definately
>> not 1v/oct, but
>> this mod should work OK.
>> 
>> Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that
>> would require cuts
>> traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete
>> components to drive the
>> vactrol LED, and the VAC itself.  Basically another
>> board will be
>> required. It would be more prudent just to buy a
>> Doepfer VC LFO in my
>> opinion.
>> 
>> It's worth a skipping all that and trying this
>> first.  
>> 
>> - P
>> 
>> 
>> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando
>> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145
>> LFO. I would like to
>> do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to
>> point me in the
>> right direction? 
>>> 
>>> Would it be possible that I could look at a
>> portion of the schematic
>> so that I could add this?
>>> 
>>> Thanx,
>>> 
>>> Tony
>>>
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows
>> Live.
>>>
>>
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
> http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
> http://www.DiN.org.uk
> http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
> http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber.gr
> Athens-Greece
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> 
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Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by (i think you can figure that out)

Repling to my own post (OK, I talk to myself, I admit it) I got a
letter offlist from a person who knows the circuit better than I (I
don't have the schemo for this guy, just repaired one once), and this
gentleman informed me that while my hack it would in fact alter the
freq, it would play havoc on the core symmetry.

My bad.  Don't do anything I suggest (this time). I assumed (falsely)
that it was a saw core.  From the sounds of it it's a tri core.  

Just noticed Deet posted a note on how to do this.

Do everything he says.

Adding a vac would require in the simplist of terms an additional
active summer (two stacked inverting amps for best isolation) for the
pot/CV pair. Thwart off the temptation to use a passive summer, else
have major interference of pot movements altering the CV signal.  OK
if that's the only place the CV is going, but if it's also going
somewhere else in the patch, it'll be effected by pot changes there as
well which to my understanding of synthesis isn't optimal. 

Use the output of that summer to drive the vac.  I would suggest
actually that that summer drive a transitor which is configured as an
emitter-follower, as this will allow for easy biasing of the LED.  So
output of the summer amp to a resistor - 2.2K or therebouts should
work -  output that to the base of an NPN, emitter of NPN to a 1K,
other end of 1K to +12.  Collector straight into the anode of the
vactrol LED, cathode to ground.  Then as Dieter suggests, bridge the
resistive elements of the vac over the 100K resistor.

You could incorporate an attenuator to the VC by traditional means or
play around with putting a 1K pot in line instead of the 1k resistor
coming off the emitter, but make sure you slap a 200 ohm resistor ater
the pot to +v or you'll fry the LED when you turn up the juice.  SO -
+12 volts to a 200 ohm,other side of tat to outide lead of a pot. 
Wiper of pot shorted to the it's other end lead and that as well to
the emitter of the NPN.


Or...get Dieter's VC LFO as well.  Best solution.  They are both fine
units, one cannot have enough LFOs and it's affordable.



- P





--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that
out)" <peter@...> wrote:
>
> You shouldn't need a vactrol at all.  There is a current limiting 100K
> resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the Freq pot.  That's
> the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor should be easy to
> locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper, the other end goes
> to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps.  That means either
> pins 2, 6, 9 or 13.  That's the first thing you have to find. So you
> buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the center pin of the
> Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor and buzz out which
> IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts to.
> 
> Once you find  point where the other side of the 100K goes to either
> of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or 13...then stop
> looking.  That's the one you need.
> 
> Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's output to another
> resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter, start at 100K and
> work down until you're happy with the response, but try not to go
> lower than 47K), and connect the output of that added resistor to the
> node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the output of your
> resistor to the other end of the resistor on the Dopefer PCB which
> comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.
> 
> That should do it.
> 
> You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well (if there's room for
> both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate, not sure if there
is): 
> 
> In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to one of the end
> pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot is connected to
> ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center pin)is connected to the
> current limiter resistor you just added which I explained in the last
> paragraph.
> 
> If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when turning the pot CW),
> then reverse the wires coming from it's two end pins.
> 
> Not sure how the expo converter works on this particular LFO, so you
> may not get linear VC response, and most definately not 1v/oct, but
> this mod should work OK.
> 
> Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that would require cuts
> traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete components to drive the
> vactrol LED, and the VAC itself.  Basically another board will be
> required. It would be more prudent just to buy a Doepfer VC LFO in my
> opinion.
> 
> It's worth a skipping all that and trying this first.  
> 
> - P
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando <goldenechos@>
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like to
> do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in the
> right direction? 
> > 
> > Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the schematic
> so that I could add this?
> > 
> > Thanx,
> > 
> > Tony
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
>
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
> >
>

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by hardware@doepfer.de

-P-,

I don't think this simple mod will work as the A-145 is a simple
non-voltage-controlled oscillator (the standard integrator/comparator
circuit). The frequency pot is not connected to a fixed voltage but to the
comparator output and the position of the pot defines the share of the
comparator output that is used to charge/discharge the integrator. If a
current is added to the center pin (inverting input) of the integrator
(voltage+resistor) this will not introduce voltage control of the frequency
but only affect the symmetry of the integrator and consequently the LFO
triangle signal. I did not try out the mod you described but from the theory
it should not introduce voltage control of the frequency.

See you at NAMM
Dieter


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von (i think you can
> figure that out)
> Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 06:52
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
>
>
> You shouldn't need a vactrol at all. There is a current limiting 100K
> resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the Freq pot. That's
> the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor should be easy to
> locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper, the other end goes
> to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps. That means either
> pins 2, 6, 9 or 13. That's the first thing you have to find. So you
> buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the center pin of the
> Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor and buzz out which
> IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts to.
>
> Once you find point where the other side of the 100K goes to either
> of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or 13...then stop
> looking. That's the one you need.
>
> Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's output to another
> resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter, start at 100K and
> work down until you're happy with the response, but try not to go
> lower than 47K), and connect the output of that added resistor to the
> node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the output of your
> resistor to the other end of the resistor on the Dopefer PCB which
> comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.
>
> That should do it.
>
> You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well (if there's room for
> both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate, not sure if there is):
>
> In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to one of the end
> pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot is connected to
> ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center pin)is connected to the
> current limiter resistor you just added which I explained in the last
> paragraph.
>
> If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when turning the pot CW),
> then reverse the wires coming from it's two end pins.
>
> Not sure how the expo converter works on this particular LFO, so you
> may not get linear VC response, and most definately not 1v/oct, but
> this mod should work OK.
>
> Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that would require cuts
> traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete components to drive the
> vactrol LED, and the VAC itself. Basically another board will be
> required. It would be more prudent just to buy a Doepfer VC LFO in my
> opinion.
>
> It's worth a skipping all that and trying this first.
>
> - P
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando <goldenechos@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like to
> do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in the
> right direction?
> >
> > Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the schematic
> so that I could add this?
> >
> > Thanx,
> >
> > Tony
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
> >
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_shareli
fe_122007
>

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by Julian

Sorry to hijack, but it seems appropiate - 

I think i still have one a147 VC lfo for sale, and, additionally, one analogue solutions lfo-1 (vclfo/noise/s&h/etc)

Located in england, and priced at 65% of new price (new price as per uk distributer, emis)

Julian

(also have some a145 lfos, and other bits...)

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 36966 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
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RE: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by Anthony Rolando

Ok, that makes sense. Thank you both for all the help. 

I have already one VCLFO. I would like to have both of the LFO in my system Voltage Controlled to explore chaotic CV generation using  2 LFOs  cross-modulating each other.

I figured that rather then sell the A-145 (my suitcase is FULL so I would not have room to add), I would just modify it...

Anybody know what is the maxium frequency of modulation a Vactrol wil be able to respond to?


Tony

----------------------------------------
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: hardware@doepfer.de
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 18:25:47 +0100
> Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
> 
> -P-,
> 
> I don't think this simple mod will work as the A-145 is a simple
> non-voltage-controlled oscillator (the standard integrator/comparator
> circuit). The frequency pot is not connected to a fixed voltage but to the
> comparator output and the position of the pot defines the share of the
> comparator output that is used to charge/discharge the integrator. If a
> current is added to the center pin (inverting input) of the integrator
> (voltage+resistor) this will not introduce voltage control of the frequency
> but only affect the symmetry of the integrator and consequently the LFO
> triangle signal. I did not try out the mod you described but from the theory
> it should not introduce voltage control of the frequency.
> 
> See you at NAMM
> Dieter
> 
> 
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von (i think you can
>> figure that out)
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2008 06:52
>> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
>>
>>
>> You shouldn't need a vactrol at all. There is a current limiting 100K
>> resistor coming from the wiper (center pin) of the Freq pot. That's
>> the only place the wiper goes, this 100K resistor should be easy to
>> locate. One end of that resistor goes to the wiper, the other end goes
>> to one of the negative inputs of the two opamps. That means either
>> pins 2, 6, 9 or 13. That's the first thing you have to find. So you
>> buzz out and find the 100K resistor that goes to the center pin of the
>> Freq pot, go across the other side of that resistor and buzz out which
>> IC and which pin (2, 6, 9 or 13) that side shorts to.
>>
>> Once you find point where the other side of the 100K goes to either
>> of the two op amp ICs at either pins 2, 6, 9, or 13...then stop
>> looking. That's the one you need.
>>
>> Add your VC Input jack to the faceplate, run it's output to another
>> resitor you'll need to add (another current limiter, start at 100K and
>> work down until you're happy with the response, but try not to go
>> lower than 47K), and connect the output of that added resistor to the
>> node of the PCB mentioned above. So you run the output of your
>> resistor to the other end of the resistor on the Dopefer PCB which
>> comes from the wiper of their Freq pot.
>>
>> That should do it.
>>
>> You can add a attenuation pot if you wish as well (if there's room for
>> both the jack and the added pot on the faceplate, not sure if there is):
>>
>> In that case, the output of the jack you add goes to one of the end
>> pins of the added pot the other end pin of that pot is connected to
>> ground. The wiper of the added pot (the center pin)is connected to the
>> current limiter resistor you just added which I explained in the last
>> paragraph.
>>
>> If you attenuator works in inverse (less FM when turning the pot CW),
>> then reverse the wires coming from it's two end pins.
>>
>> Not sure how the expo converter works on this particular LFO, so you
>> may not get linear VC response, and most definately not 1v/oct, but
>> this mod should work OK.
>>
>> Yes you could do it by added a vactrol, but that would require cuts
>> traces on the LFO PCB, a bunch of discrete components to drive the
>> vactrol LED, and the VAC itself. Basically another board will be
>> required. It would be more prudent just to buy a Doepfer VC LFO in my
>> opinion.
>>
>> It's worth a skipping all that and trying this first.
>>
>> - P
>>
>> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Rolando 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to add Voltage control to my A-145 LFO. I would like to
>> do so with a Vactrol. Would anybody be willing to point me in the
>> right direction?
>>>
>>> Would it be possible that I could look at a portion of the schematic
>> so that I could add this?
>>>
>>> Thanx,
>>>
>>> Tony
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>> Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
>>>
>> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_shareli
> fe_122007
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/
> 
>  Your email settings:
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>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/join
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> 
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[Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-05 by Tim Stinchcombe

Hi Tony,

> Anybody know what is the maxium frequency of modulation a Vactrol 
wil be able to respond to?

That will depend quite a lot on just exactly what type of Vactrol you 
use. Take a look at the second page of this datasheet, and at the top 
you'll see two 'response time' graphs, which you will see have quite 
different scales for the 'C3' and the 'C4':

<http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/Datasheets/DTS_vtl5c3c
4.pdf>

That we are talking 10's to 100's of milliseconds shows they are 
pretty sluggish - this might (and I only say 'might', as I have no 
experience with these devices!) be good enough up to a couple of 
Hertz or so. I skimmed the A-101-9 pages, but couldn't see any 
mention of just what device is used inside that module - thus if you 
go this route, be prepared to have to juggle some component values 
along the way (although this may be made easier by having the LFO 
range switch to play with too).

Since using a Vactrol will mean providing support circuitry to drive 
it, it might not be much more work to replace resistor R4+the 
frequency pot with an OTA, and do it that way: off the top of my 
head, the scaling for the input to the OTA should be pretty straight 
forward; harder will be how to drive its control current, as this 
would probably need some sort of expo converter, and since you need 
to source current for the OTA, you won't be able to use the simple 
pnp+npn transistor combo, I think it might need an op amp or two 
(although I guess the pnp+npn route with a simple current mirror 
might do it, it doesn't really need to be super-accurate after 
all...).

In conclusion, lots of possibilities: the deciding factor is likely 
to be how much time you are prepared to spend on it! (At least it 
should be relatively easy to graft anything onto the 145 by merely 
removing resistors etc,. i.e. without having to cut any tracks.)

Tim

RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-06 by Anthony Rolando

I have a few Vactrols on hand Tim. Been experimenting with the VTL5C3 though, as it is "the fastest" of my choices.

The Mod works, but it is not to my likings, and I think I might have to just buy the 146.

I have tried several circuits to drive the Vactrol, but all seem to have too much slop in them, the response just does not feel right to me.

Perhaps I have not tried the magic circuit... but I feel that more likely the 145 just was not designed with this type of control in mind!

Thank you everybody for your help on this,

Tony


----------------------------------------
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: timothy@tstinchcombe.freeserve.co.uk
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 20:39:26 +0000
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
> 
> Hi Tony,
> 
>> Anybody know what is the maxium frequency of modulation a Vactrol 
> wil be able to respond to?
> 
> That will depend quite a lot on just exactly what type of Vactrol you 
> use. Take a look at the second page of this datasheet, and at the top 
> you'll see two 'response time' graphs, which you will see have quite 
> different scales for the 'C3' and the 'C4':
> 
>  4.pdf>
> 
> That we are talking 10's to 100's of milliseconds shows they are 
> pretty sluggish - this might (and I only say 'might', as I have no 
> experience with these devices!) be good enough up to a couple of 
> Hertz or so. I skimmed the A-101-9 pages, but couldn't see any 
> mention of just what device is used inside that module - thus if you 
> go this route, be prepared to have to juggle some component values 
> along the way (although this may be made easier by having the LFO 
> range switch to play with too).
> 
> Since using a Vactrol will mean providing support circuitry to drive 
> it, it might not be much more work to replace resistor R4+the 
> frequency pot with an OTA, and do it that way: off the top of my 
> head, the scaling for the input to the OTA should be pretty straight 
> forward; harder will be how to drive its control current, as this 
> would probably need some sort of expo converter, and since you need 
> to source current for the OTA, you won't be able to use the simple 
> pnp+npn transistor combo, I think it might need an op amp or two 
> (although I guess the pnp+npn route with a simple current mirror 
> might do it, it doesn't really need to be super-accurate after 
> all...).
> 
> In conclusion, lots of possibilities: the deciding factor is likely 
> to be how much time you are prepared to spend on it! (At least it 
> should be relatively easy to graft anything onto the 145 by merely 
> removing resistors etc,. i.e. without having to cut any tracks.)
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/
> 
>  Your email settings:
>     Individual Email | Traditional
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>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/join
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_________________________________________________________________
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AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-07 by hardware@doepfer.de

> Anybody know what is the maxium frequency of modulation a Vactrol
> wil be able to respond to?

This depends upon the specs of the vactrol (mainly the material of the
photo-sensitive layer as the LED is much faster than the photo resistor).
Some manufacturer use secret identifiers (e.g. Perkin Elmer material no. "0"
or "3"), other publish the chemical details (e.g. cadmium-sulfite). In
addition the max. frequency depends upon the "brightness bias point". In the
dark area the vactrols are much slower than in the bright area. It will take
several seconds (for some materials even minutes) until the max. resistance
without illumination is reached. The max. frequency in the bright area may
reach up to some hundred Hz or even some kHz (with decreasing resistance
change level).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-07 by hardware@doepfer.de

> I have a few Vactrols on hand Tim. Been experimenting with the
> VTL5C3 though, as it is "the fastest" of my choices.
>
> The Mod works, but it is not to my likings, and I think I might
> have to just buy the 146.
>
> I have tried several circuits to drive the Vactrol, but all seem
> to have too much slop in them, the response just does not feel
> right to me.
>
> Perhaps I have not tried the magic circuit... but I feel that
> more likely the 145 just was not designed with this type of
> control in mind!
>
> Thank you everybody for your help on this,
>
> Tony

We use exponential voltage controlled current sources in our vactrol modules
because of the double exponential behaviour of the vactrols. The current
source (instead of a voltage source) is needed as the LED illumination is
approximately proportional to the LED current (not to the LED voltage).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

RE: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO

2008-01-07 by Anthony Rolando

That explains exactly what I was referring to as "slop" Dieter. I was using a current source.

I might try something along those lines, as I am interested in learning more about using vactrols. 
Still, the VCLFO you sell would fit in my system (if I removed the 145) and it is very nicely priced!

Thanx again,

Tony


----------------------------------------
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: hardware@doepfer.de
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 10:01:14 +0100
> Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: adding CV to A-145 LFO
> 
>> I have a few Vactrols on hand Tim. Been experimenting with the
>> VTL5C3 though, as it is "the fastest" of my choices.
>>
>> The Mod works, but it is not to my likings, and I think I might
>> have to just buy the 146.
>>
>> I have tried several circuits to drive the Vactrol, but all seem
>> to have too much slop in them, the response just does not feel
>> right to me.
>>
>> Perhaps I have not tried the magic circuit... but I feel that
>> more likely the 145 just was not designed with this type of
>> control in mind!
>>
>> Thank you everybody for your help on this,
>>
>> Tony
> 
> We use exponential voltage controlled current sources in our vactrol modules
> because of the double exponential behaviour of the vactrols. The current
> source (instead of a voltage source) is needed as the LED illumination is
> approximately proportional to the LED current (not to the LED voltage).
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
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