Doepfer

Hello,

I am a annoyed when using A133 or A163 or A143-1... modules that have polarizer 
function.

Because I find it nearly impossible to find the 0.

I mean for example if I put a lfo wave in A133  and patch this into CV1 of A111... its nearly 
impossible to not have the VCO freq. affected at all... even when trying to settle the A133 
on ZERO.

DOES ANYONE UNDESRTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?

Dieter, do you get my point?

I dont know, maybe we should have button that have a fixed position for ZERO position?

or a switch to make it ZERO...

Its really bothering me recently in some precise adjustement in a patch...


Best,


A

Hi

> DOES ANYONE UNDESRTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?
I do, but you don't have to write it that loud ;-)

I had a A-133 but I changed back to two inputs of a normal mixer plus an 
A-175 inverter due to the same reason.

A real solution is not easy. Roland used special potentiometers (e.g. 
the bender potentiometers in all the early 80ies synths), which had not 
only a center ground-pin, but also a small range around this center, 
where the resistance did not change. One could imagine quite complicated 
circuitry to imitate this, butthe question is, whether it really is 
worth the effort, since you still simply can turn down the overall 
amount of the modulation input of the VCO.

Florian

yes, this is the one downside for reversible attenuators in the modular world.
even detents in pots do not solve this problem.
for now, you can (at least):

1.  use a normal attenuator between your modulation source and destination 
2.  DIY your own manual switch with a toggle and two jacks
3.  use a voltage controlled switch

be creative!




--- bellenger_a <bellenger_a@yahoo.fr> wrote:

 Hello, I am a annoyed when using A133 or A163 or A143-1... modules that have
polarizer function. Because I find it nearly impossible to find the 0. I mean
for example if I put a lfo wave in A133  and patch this into CV1 of A111... its
nearly impossible to not have the VCO freq. affected at all... even when trying
to settle the A133 on ZERO. I dont know, maybe we should have button that have
a fixed position for ZERO position? or a switch to make it ZERO... Its really
bothering me recently in some precise adjustement in a patch...




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-> > DOES ANYONE UNDESRTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?
> I do, but you don't have to write it that loud ;-)


oooopppssss....


no i didnt mean that, I just thought maybe it wasnt so clear, maybe I thought I was "alone" 
having this problem....

its not that bad I mean... 

but at some point... its been ony recently somehow this modules started to appear, like 
what 3 years ago... i use doepfer for about 10 years and at that time, there wasnt any 
polarizer at all... i didnt feel so much like I was missing it... and I bought quite a few 
modules with that function, and was very fine with them, and its only recently for really 
precise settings in a patch I had to face this case... and


yeah, I manage (being creative there i'm not sure it is so much my matter...) to find 
solutions...


I was just thinking if there is an EASY solution to make this issue better...


Best,


Alexandre

A polarizing potentiometer with non-linear (less sensitive around 12 
o'clock) response would be nice. In another thread it was said, that it 
is difficult to implement.

A-138c is one of my favourite modules, but sometimes making accurate 
settings is difficult.

Jari Jokinen

Thanks Dieter, nice to have yr feeling about it...



Best,



Alexandre




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:

>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a annoyed when using A133 or A163 or A143-1... modules that
> > have polarizer
> > function.
> >
> > Because I find it nearly impossible to find the 0.
> >
> > I mean for example if I put a lfo wave in A133 and patch this
> > into CV1 of A111... its nearly
> > impossible to not have the VCO freq. affected at all... even when
> > trying to settle the A133
> > on ZERO.
> >
> > DOES ANYONE UNDESRTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?
> >
> > Dieter, do you get my point?
> >
> > I dont know, maybe we should have button that have a fixed
> > position for ZERO position?
> >
> > or a switch to make it ZERO...
> >
> > Its really bothering me recently in some precise adjustement in a patch...
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > A
> 
> To speak the truth I've never been a friend of polarizers. For me in person
> the adjustability is not good enough as one has only about 130 degrees
> rotating angle for the whole range (positive or negative). If polarity
> change is wanted I prefer the version of the A-188-1 (three position switch
> negative/off/positive) though it's more expensive and requires more space at
> the front panel. But the customers asked for the polarizer function for CV
> inputs and this is why we introduced the polarizers in a couple of modules
> during the last time. In the first modules with polarizers normal
> potentiometers were used (i.e. without center terminal and center detent) as
> our potentiometer manufacturer was not able to supply such special
> potentiometer types. But in the meantime we found a manufacturer who is able
> to supply us with the special potentiometers with center terminal and center
> detent (both are necessary). The first module where we used this new type of
> potentiometer was the tapped BBD module A-189-2. Unfortunately for this
> potentiometer type a totally different electronic circuit is required
> compared to the potentiometers without center terminal. In addition the
> dimensions are different as the additional terminal is on top of the
> potentiometer which requires additional distance to the next part on the
> front panel. Consequently the old potentiometers with polarizer function
> cannot be simply replaced by the new ones because of electronical and
> mechanical reasons. But it should be possible to modify a polarizer so that
> it works as a normal attenuator again. I'll take a look at the circuits of
> the modules in question and report back.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Silas Johansen" <sijodk@...> 
wrote:
>
> >  I was just thinking if there is an EASY solution to make this 
issue
> > better...
> 
> Pull the plug halfway out? Maybe not perfect, but it saves you having
> to solder a switch into the circuit.
>


yes, thats how i usually do it too, but i only
use the modular in the studio and it might be
problematic in a live gig situation.

i 100% agree with dieter, a normal potentiometer with
a three-position switch (like on the a188/1) is
the best solution. imho that should be standard for all
future a100 modules, as long as the panel space allows.
i don't care if the module costs 5 euros more in the end
because of the additional switch.

best wishes

ingo (back after a long time)

> Hello,
>
> I am a annoyed when using A133 or A163 or A143-1... modules that
> have polarizer
> function.
>
> Because I find it nearly impossible to find the 0.
>
> I mean for example if I put a lfo wave in A133 and patch this
> into CV1 of A111... its nearly
> impossible to not have the VCO freq. affected at all... even when
> trying to settle the A133
> on ZERO.
>
> DOES ANYONE UNDESRTAND WHAT I AM SAYING?
>
> Dieter, do you get my point?
>
> I dont know, maybe we should have button that have a fixed
> position for ZERO position?
>
> or a switch to make it ZERO...
>
> Its really bothering me recently in some precise adjustement in a patch...
>
> Best,
>
> A

To speak the truth I've never been a friend of polarizers. For me in person
the adjustability is not good enough as one has only about 130 degrees
rotating angle for the whole range (positive or negative). If polarity
change is wanted I prefer the version of the A-188-1 (three position switch
negative/off/positive) though it's more expensive and requires more space at
the front panel. But the customers asked for the polarizer function for CV
inputs and this is why we introduced the polarizers in a couple of modules
during the last time. In the first modules with polarizers normal
potentiometers were used (i.e. without center terminal and center detent) as
our potentiometer manufacturer was not able to supply such special
potentiometer types. But in the meantime we found a manufacturer who is able
to supply us with the special potentiometers with center terminal and center
detent (both are necessary). The first module where we used this new type of
potentiometer was the tapped BBD module A-189-2. Unfortunately for this
potentiometer type a totally different electronic circuit is required
compared to the potentiometers without center terminal. In addition the
dimensions are different as the additional terminal is on top of the
potentiometer which requires additional distance to the next part on the
front panel. Consequently the old potentiometers with polarizer function
cannot be simply replaced by the new ones because of electronical and
mechanical reasons. But it should be possible to modify a polarizer so that
it works as a normal attenuator again. I'll take a look at the circuits of
the modules in question and report back.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

>  I was just thinking if there is an EASY solution to make this issue
> better...

Pull the plug halfway out? Maybe not perfect, but it saves you having
to solder a switch into the circuit.

This must be a DIY cabinet: His modules already take the normal 84HP, 
but there is still empty space left.

If the empty space was 2HP, wouldn't two mounting holes be visible 
then?

1HP = 5.08 mm.

Jari Jokinen
  
--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Silas Johansen" <sijodk@...> 
wrote:
>
> Looks like 2HP to me - if you want to be sure add up the widths of 
one

> row of modules and subtract this number from 84.
> 
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, amnesia <amnesia@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Can someone tell from the photo what size blind panels i need
> >  http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/376766455/sizes/l/
> >
> >  thanks
> >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >
>

> A polarizing potentiometer with non-linear (less sensitive around 12
> o'clock) response would be nice. In another thread it was said, that it
> is difficult to implement.
>
> A-138c is one of my favourite modules, but sometimes making accurate
> settings is difficult.
>
> Jari Jokinen

We are about to redesign the A-138c but have problems with the additional
center terminals of the potentiometers with center detent and terminal as
they would require to increase the front panel width to 10 HP because of the
overlapping terminals. We will try if it's possible to cut the terminals
without damaging the potentiometer to keep the 8 HP width.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

I just wanted to inform you that we now have 1.5 HP blind panels available.
They can be used to compensate the gaps if Bob Williams' AS module are
mounted together with A-100 modules in the same frame.
We also have again 1 HP blind panels available as some module manufacturers
offer modules with odd-numbered HP's (all A-100 modules have even-numbered
HP's).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Can someone tell from the photo what size blind panels i need
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/376766455/sizes/l/

thanks



>
>

Looks like 2HP to me - if you want to be sure add up the widths of one
row of modules and subtract this number from 84.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:13 PM, amnesia <amnesia@internode.on.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Can someone tell from the photo what size blind panels i need
>  http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/376766455/sizes/l/
>
>  thanks
>
>  >
>  >
>
>

that's great!
best regards,    :-)
Bakis.


--- hardware@doepfer.de wrote:

> I just wanted to inform you that we now have 1.5 HP
> blind panels available.
> They can be used to compensate the gaps if Bob
> Williams' AS module are
> mounted together with A-100 modules in the same
> frame.
> We also have again 1 HP blind panels available as
> some module manufacturers
> offer modules with odd-numbered HP's (all A-100
> modules have even-numbered
> HP's).
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece


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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

that should be 1.5 HP?
can't be sure though...


--- amnesia <amnesia@internode.on.net> wrote:

> Can someone tell from the photo what size blind
> panels i need
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/376766455/sizes/l/
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

welcome Ingo (of the Zobel kind)!!    :-)


--- selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Silas
> Johansen" <sijodk@...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > >  I was just thinking if there is an EASY
> solution to make this 
> issue
> > > better...
> > 
> > Pull the plug halfway out? Maybe not perfect, but
> it saves you having
> > to solder a switch into the circuit.
> >
> 
> 
> yes, thats how i usually do it too, but i only
> use the modular in the studio and it might be
> problematic in a live gig situation.
> 
> i 100% agree with dieter, a normal potentiometer
> with
> a three-position switch (like on the a188/1) is
> the best solution. imho that should be standard for
> all
> future a100 modules, as long as the panel space
> allows.
> i don't care if the module costs 5 euros more in the
> end
> because of the additional switch.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo (back after a long time)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

My racks are Schroff racks if that helps. but are 19"


>
>

> http://www.schroff.co.uk/internet/html_uk/index.html


>

> i 100% agree with dieter, a normal potentiometer with
> a three-position switch (like on the a188/1) is
> the best solution. imho that should be standard for all
> future a100 modules, as long as the panel space allows.
> i don't care if the module costs 5 euros more in the end
> because of the additional switch.


YES YES THREE TIMES YES...

I love switches anyway....


Best,

A

> Can someone tell from the photo what size blind panels i need
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/376766455/sizes/l/
> 
> thanks

You should measure the gap.

If it's ~ 5 mm a 1 HP blind panel is needed.
If it's ~ 7.5 mm a 1.5 HP blind panel is needed.
If it's ~ 10 mm a 2 HP blind panel is needed.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

A-190 : €120
A-117 : €40

Both: €155

+ shipping costs (±9€)

Both mint condition (with the usual screw rash); includes cables &  
screws.

Shipping from Belgium, to EU only.
BIC/EBAN transfer, no Paypal please.


Thank you !

_Guy