Doepfer

I have a large (12 panel) Serge system I would like to supplement 
with 15-20 of the more interesting Doepfer modules. 

Dieter suggested that I ask this group if anyone had ever replaced 
jack sockets with banana sockets and with what success.

He advised that one would have to disassemble the module, desolder 
the jack sockets, drill the front panel for the banana sockets 
[maybe. See the next paragraph], mount the module and the banana 
sockets to the modified front panel,  wire manually the banana 
sockets and test the modified module

Is anyone aware of a banana socket that has the same diameter as the 
miniature sockets? (If so, the front panels would not have to be 
changed and this would make things easier)

He also suggested I ask if anyone if he was willing to do this job 
for me. If so, I'd be glad to pay you by the module or, if necessary, 
by the hour (and let me know how many hours you estimate the project 
would take). Anyone interested ?

why not just make a whole bunch of cables that are 3.5mm on one end
and banana on the other? 

that's approximately one bazillion times less hassle. 


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "williambbaggett" <bbaggett@...>
wrote:

>
> I have a large (12 panel) Serge system I would like to supplement 
> with 15-20 of the more interesting Doepfer modules. 
> 
> Dieter suggested that I ask this group if anyone had ever replaced 
> jack sockets with banana sockets and with what success.
> 
> He advised that one would have to disassemble the module, desolder 
> the jack sockets, drill the front panel for the banana sockets 
> [maybe. See the next paragraph], mount the module and the banana 
> sockets to the modified front panel,  wire manually the banana 
> sockets and test the modified module
> 
> Is anyone aware of a banana socket that has the same diameter as the 
> miniature sockets? (If so, the front panels would not have to be 
> changed and this would make things easier)
> 
> He also suggested I ask if anyone if he was willing to do this job 
> for me. If so, I'd be glad to pay you by the module or, if necessary, 
> by the hour (and let me know how many hours you estimate the project 
> would take). Anyone interested ?
>

On May 27, 2008, at 7:07 PM, partlydrone wrote:

> why not just make a whole bunch of cables that are 3.5mm on one end
> and banana on the other?
>
> that's approximately one bazillion times less hassle.
>

Also you can connect the ground on the 3.5mm end and it will be  
shielded for long runs. Some of the Doepfer modules use the jacks as  
some of the support for holding the PCBs in place. When you change the  
jacks out you have to come up with other means of doing this - or rely  
on the Pots holding the PCB.

-James

I've succesfully drilled the original sockets out to 4 mm. Then I used
a small screwdriver to disconnect ground from the socket. This way it
all looks original, but you can use banana for patching...
Might be an idea... I did it this way because desoldering sucks in my
opinion...

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "williambbaggett" <bbaggett@...>
wrote:

>
> I have a large (12 panel) Serge system I would like to supplement 
> with 15-20 of the more interesting Doepfer modules. 
> 
> Dieter suggested that I ask this group if anyone had ever replaced 
> jack sockets with banana sockets and with what success.
> 
> He advised that one would have to disassemble the module, desolder 
> the jack sockets, drill the front panel for the banana sockets 
> [maybe. See the next paragraph], mount the module and the banana 
> sockets to the modified front panel,  wire manually the banana 
> sockets and test the modified module
> 
> Is anyone aware of a banana socket that has the same diameter as the 
> miniature sockets? (If so, the front panels would not have to be 
> changed and this would make things easier)
> 
> He also suggested I ask if anyone if he was willing to do this job 
> for me. If so, I'd be glad to pay you by the module or, if necessary, 
> by the hour (and let me know how many hours you estimate the project 
> would take). Anyone interested ?
>

A few weeks back I suggested a single gnd connection between the 2 systems (via the gnd on the serge power supply possibly), and then making banana to mini jack cables. This would work well.

Tony

----------------------------------------
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: the_ersatz_planet@mac.com
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:16:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Yes we have no bananas
> 
> 
> 
> On May 27, 2008, at 7:07 PM, partlydrone wrote:
> 
>> why not just make a whole bunch of cables that are 3.5mm on one end
>> and banana on the other?
>>
>> that's approximately one bazillion times less hassle.
>>
> 
> Also you can connect the ground on the 3.5mm end and it will be  
> shielded for long runs. Some of the Doepfer modules use the jacks as  
> some of the support for holding the PCBs in place. When you change the  
> jacks out you have to come up with other means of doing this - or rely  
> on the Pots holding the PCB.
> 
> -James
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> 
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_________________________________________________________________
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You can take care of the grounding problem by connecting the audio
outputs of both modulars to the same mixer, can't you?

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Anthony Rolando
<goldenechos@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> A few weeks back I suggested a single gnd connection between the 2 systems (via the gnd on the serge power supply possibly), and then making banana to mini jack cables. This would work well.
>
> Tony
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>> From: the_ersatz_planet@mac.com
>> Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:16:04 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Yes we have no bananas
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 27, 2008, at 7:07 PM, partlydrone wrote:
>>
>>> why not just make a whole bunch of cables that are 3.5mm on one end
>>> and banana on the other?
>>>
>>> that's approximately one bazillion times less hassle.
>>>
>>
>> Also you can connect the ground on the 3.5mm end and it will be
>> shielded for long runs. Some of the Doepfer modules use the jacks as
>> some of the support for holding the PCBs in place. When you change the
>> jacks out you have to come up with other means of doing this - or rely
>> on the Pots holding the PCB.
>>
>> -James
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>  To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/
>>
>>  Your email settings:
>>     Individual Email | Traditional
>>
>>  To change settings online go to:
>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/join
>>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>>
>>  To change settings via email:
>>     mailto:Doepfer_a100-digest@yahoogroups.com
>>     mailto:Doepfer_a100-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>     Doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Make every e-mail and IM count. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ MakeCount
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On May 29, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Korhan Erel wrote:

> You can take care of the grounding problem by connecting the audio
> outputs of both modulars to the same mixer, can't you?
>

In most cases this will work fine unless the mixer has isolated  
grounds (very rare). The only thing needed really is only on ground  
line between both units. A medium gauge wire from module mounting  
screws would do it in most cases.

I've erased my emails so don't know who posted it but someone  
mentioned the method of drilling out and enlarging the holes in the  
current plastic jacks and still using them - brilliant idea! if  
carefully done the tip part of the jack could still be used and make  
contact with the banana  and even the normalizing preserved. It would  
be time consuming for sure and disassembly and re-assembly of the  
jacks contacts needed but it would look great and still support the pcb.

-James

Hi all

Yes that was my Euro Serge system, Ken Stone started out with banana 
plugs then worked out to drill the plastic jacks...so now my system has

Banana Jacked euro modules
drilled modules
and 2 mults that are half banana and half not tampered with

see here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2266122863/

so any of the doepfers that gave the lack jacks are now bananas via drilling

Ken Stone is a smart cookie

Ross






James Husted wrote:

>
>
> On May 29, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Korhan Erel wrote:
>
> > You can take care of the grounding problem by connecting the audio
> > outputs of both modulars to the same mixer, can't you?
> >
>
> In most cases this will work fine unless the mixer has isolated
> grounds (very rare). The only thing needed really is only on ground
> line between both units. A medium gauge wire from module mounting
> screws would do it in most cases.
>
> I've erased my emails so don't know who posted it but someone
> mentioned the method of drilling out and enlarging the holes in the
> current plastic jacks and still using them - brilliant idea! if
> carefully done the tip part of the jack could still be used and make
> contact with the banana and even the normalizing preserved. It would
> be time consuming for sure and disassembly and re-assembly of the
> jacks contacts needed but it would look great and still support the pcb.
>
> -James
>
>

Hi

I am lucky to be sitting with a rather knackered but still working (borrowed) EMS VCS3. Its a synth I've wanted to get my hands on for a long time and i must say its no disapointment. the sound is incredible and the interface, for me, is by far the friendliest I ever had on a modular. I love the high resolution VCO pots, the crazy trapezoid envelope, the no-patch-leads, the way it can create distortion all over the place... 

and this is my question. I know analogue solutions make the filter and trapezoid and i know some kind of pin matrix is coming soon, but I wonder if anyone has found doepfer or other modules which replicate the ways the VCS3 mixers and gain stages overdrive and saturate... it seems to me that is a big part of what brings about the signature sound of the EMS.... more so than the filter for example. I am using moogerfoogers a lot these days and this has showed me that very good quality gain stages and mixers which create a beautiful controllable timbre are a huge part of what is missing from modern synth designs. 

Of course I know getting a VCS3 is the best solution... its tail chasing to try to replicate the sound of one synth with another, but they become so rare and expensive these days

Maybe an overdriving  mixer with germanium could even be a nice idea for a module?


Richard

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 538 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Richard,
 
Analogue Systems make the modules.
 
The Analogue Systems RS95 is also a close representation of the VCO's
and they will also do multi turn pots with vernier dials too.
 
As for the gain stages, the VCS3's are quite basic or should I say crude
which is what helps give the sound.
 
You could try Krisp1 for the Oakley Overdrive
http://www.krisp1.com/modules.htm &
http://www.oakleysound.com/overdrv.htm he will put in a Euro format if
you ask.
 
This uses a nice gain stage and you have the option of distortion or
overdrive which may be nearer to the sound you are after. Not  germanium
though as it uses an non-inverting op amp and a pair of silicon diodes.
 
Apart from that I can offer nothing else. Hope that is some help anyway.
 
 
 
David
 
 
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
David Salter
Senior Consultant


Thomson Reuters

O +44 (0)20 7542 2402X 52402
M 07990562402

david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
thomsonreuters.com <http://thomsonreuters.com/> 

 

________________________________

From: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Sent: 03 June 2008 10:06
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] VCS3



Hi

I am lucky to be sitting with a rather knackered but still working
(borrowed) EMS VCS3. Its a synth I've wanted to get my hands on for a
long time and i must say its no disapointment. the sound is incredible
and the interface, for me, is by far the friendliest I ever had on a
modular. I love the high resolution VCO pots, the crazy trapezoid
envelope, the no-patch-leads, the way it can create distortion all over
the place... 

and this is my question. I know analogue solutions make the filter and
trapezoid and i know some kind of pin matrix is coming soon, but I
wonder if anyone has found doepfer or other modules which replicate the
ways the VCS3 mixers and gain stages overdrive and saturate... it seems
to me that is a big part of what brings about the signature sound of the
EMS.... more so than the filter for example. I am using moogerfoogers a
lot these days and this has showed me that very good quality gain stages
and mixers which create a beautiful controllable timbre are a huge part
of what is missing from modern synth designs. 

Of course I know getting a VCS3 is the best solution... its tail chasing
to try to replicate the sound of one synth with another, but they become
so rare and expensive these days

Maybe an overdriving mixer with germanium could even be a nice idea for
a module?

Richard

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
It has removed 538 spam emails to date.
Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
<http://www.spamfighter.com/len> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-
> and this is my question. I know analogue solutions make the filter and
> trapezoid and i know some kind of pin matrix is coming soon, but I
> wonder if anyone has found doepfer or other modules which replicate the
> ways the VCS3 mixers and gain stages overdrive and saturate... it seems
> to me that is a big part of what brings about the signature sound of the
> EMS.... more so than the filter for example. I am using moogerfoogers a
> lot these days and this has showed me that very good quality gain stages
> and mixers which create a beautiful controllable timbre are a huge part
> of what is missing from modern synth designs. 

There are definitely too many quirks in the design  as a whole  entity
to easily replicate from parts of the whole.

I agree that a very often overlooked area is how different analog
circuits deal with and react to different gain levels. I get the
feeling  a lot of  synthesists just patch in whatever they have and
decide that something sounds warm or cold or like something or don't
like something when they haven't tested it out at different levels

 Clearly though Bob Moog definitely had a deep understanding of the
topic and it shows in his designs.

Off memory I think the Germanium diodes are in the noise source.

Analogue Systems said in their literature that their Ring Mod was
similar to the Synthi. I don't have it though I do have an AKS and a
bunch of other Analogue Systems modules.

I have been on this search for a while. I once owned 2 AKSs and a  
VCS3. I have tried to re-create the "feel" of them and found a few  
things about the EMS designs that become the challenge - one is the CV/ 
Octave range is very non-standard. It is if I remember correctly  
around 0.32v/oct on the EMS. This makes for a very wide range of  
modulation. Most current modulars are close to the 1v/oct when the  
inputs attenuators are full open. This brings me to the second main  
difference - the modules on the EMS, as you may notice using the one  
you have, have no input attenuation, everything has output pots but no  
input ones. This adds to the chance of distorting inputs when like for  
instance more than one source is plugged into the filter. And the  
matrix makes plugging many things into one input VERY easy. The main  
drawback to this scheme is that the scaling whacks out when you try to  
do something basic like controlling a VCO from a keyboard a lfo and a  
sequencer at once - you just can't scale the voltages to track in  
tune. I think this is why the Synthi has fallen to the role of what I  
used to call "Rayguns from Mars" sounds and modification of other  
sounds. I sold mine cause I wanted to get more "musical" and thought a  
good modular would do the abstract stuff just as easily. That was not  
the case. If you are wanting to make abstract sounds quickly and more  
importantly have fun playing them -there is really nothing like a  
Synthi AKS.

-James

On Jun 3, 2008, at 1:05 AM, Richard Scott wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am lucky to be sitting with a rather knackered but still working  
> (borrowed) EMS VCS3. Its a synth I've wanted to get my hands on for  
> a long time and i must say its no disapointment. the sound is  
> incredible and the interface, for me, is by far the friendliest I  
> ever had on a modular. I love the high resolution VCO pots, the  
> crazy trapezoid envelope, the no-patch-leads, the way it can create  
> distortion all over the place...
>
> and this is my question. I know analogue solutions make the filter  
> and trapezoid and i know some kind of pin matrix is coming soon, but  
> I wonder if anyone has found doepfer or other modules which  
> replicate the ways the VCS3 mixers and gain stages overdrive and  
> saturate... it seems to me that is a big part of what brings about  
> the signature sound of the EMS.... more so than the filter for  
> example. I am using moogerfoogers a lot these days and this has  
> showed me that very good quality gain stages and mixers which create  
> a beautiful controllable timbre are a huge part of what is missing  
> from modern synth designs.
>
> Of course I know getting a VCS3 is the best solution... its tail  
> chasing to try to replicate the sound of one synth with another, but  
> they become so rare and expensive these days
>
> Maybe an overdriving  mixer with germanium could even be a nice idea  
> for a module?
>
>
> Richard
>
> -- 
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 538 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I have owned a VCS3 and currently own a Synthi AKS.

I also have a Serge and a Euro system...

It depends on many things

1. What style of music you want to do on it. I am totally into improv 
electronics nowdays and can get a very similar sound from my euro as I 
have a Doep Spring Reverb and Joystick, so i am doing fast noise bursts 
not always using the filter.

2. if you want the filter grab the AS one.

just my aussie 0.94 cents
Ross
>
>

Hi;


I´ve been out for some time.

I just saw the doepfer matrix pin project and seem cool.

I own a sinthy and a VCS3 MKI and I guess they are unimitable so not sure what kind of new live can 
do that matrix to the Doepfer other than usual patch cables but it could be nice.

In order to use it, all modules should be clabe patched by it´s rear side?  A huge $$ on cables and noise, intereference right here.

Hans
________________________________
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> From: david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 09:38:14 +0100
> Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] VCS3
> 
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Analogue Systems make the modules.
> 
> The Analogue Systems RS95 is also a close representation of the VCO's
> and they will also do multi turn pots with vernier dials too.
> 
> As for the gain stages, the VCS3's are quite basic or should I say crude
> which is what helps give the sound.
> 
> You could try Krisp1 for the Oakley Overdrive
> http://www.krisp1.com/modules.htm &
> http://www.oakleysound.com/overdrv.htm he will put in a Euro format if
> you ask.
> 
> This uses a nice gain stage and you have the option of distortion or
> overdrive which may be nearer to the sound you are after. Not germanium
> though as it uses an non-inverting op amp and a pair of silicon diodes.
> 
> Apart from that I can offer nothing else. Hope that is some help anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * * *
> David Salter
> Senior Consultant
> 
> Thomson Reuters
> 
> O +44 (0)20 7542 2402X 52402
> M 07990562402
> 
> david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Video. 
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=es-es

Hi Group,  and thanks for your many  suggestions about how I might use banana cords to 
interface with a Serge system.

Well, I've ordered but not yet received a pretty larger Doepfer system, and based on the 
advice received here,  am prepared to drill out the plastic in the middle of the 3.5mm 
mini-plugs just a bit so as to to allow them to receive 4 mm banana plugs. (instead of 
patch bays or adapter cables, etc.)

I understand now that I have to disconnect ground from ever "banana adapted" socket or 
else I would ground out the signal coming in on the banana.

However,  I can't understand why trying to use banana jacks in normaled sockets would 
not  create a similar problem.  I dunno, but need to know soon - since I don't intend to 
touch a normaled socket until I do. 

THE ONE THING I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IS:

James (or was it Korhan?) wrote:

> > if carefully done the tip part of the jack could still be used and make
> > contact with the banana and EVEN THE NORMALIZING PRESERVED.


I admit to being no expert and certainly capable of asking questions without being able to 
understand the (correct) answer, but I don't really get it and I certainly want to make sure 
before I stick a a banana pug in a drilled out/enalarged NORMALED socket.

Do I need to:

(1) just leave the normaled mini-phone sockets ALONE and only drill out the sockets that 
aren't?

(2) somehow disable the normaling and waste a patch cord or 4  now and then? (& If so, 
how?)

(3) treat normaled sockets just like the rest 

It's this  3rd option I don't understand, and is why I write.

I  looked at a schematic of a switched jack and it looked like "normally" the normaled 
connection between 2 contacts is  broken by the insertion of  a mini-plug (The insertion 
separates 2 contacts that would "normally" be connected) 

Here's the part that worries me – while the normalled connection is broken, one contact is 
touching the tip of the mini-phone jack and the other contact is isolated and touching the  
sleeve (or whatever you call it) of the mini-plug. 

So. since the banana plug has no sleeve, the two contacts would NOT be isolated and the 
connection between the 2 contacts would NOT be broken when a banana plug is inserted. 

Also, seems like the same banana plug would be connected to both contacts and – So, 
what would happen to the signal carried by the banana cable? It seems like this might 
result in stacking inputs (1. the normalled input that wasn't disconnected with the plug 
was inserted and 2. the signal coming from the plug itself.)

Well, the "question" turned out longer than I expected. Sorry, but I'd appreciate any 
advice. I hope I'm wrong and can somehow use normalled inputs with banana plugs, but I 
dunno... Whattaya think ?

        Thank
        Billy

P.S. Please let me know if any of you have any  ideas or can foresee any potential 
problems, etc. Thanks again!

-- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amnesia@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all
> 
> Yes that was my Euro Serge system, Ken Stone started out with banana 
> plugs then worked out to drill the plastic jacks...so now my system has
> 
> Banana Jacked euro modules
> drilled modules
> and 2 mults that are half banana and half not tampered with
> 
> see here
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cray5656/2266122863/
> 
> so any of the doepfers that gave the lack jacks are now bananas via drilling
> 
> Ken Stone is a smart cookie
> 
> Ross
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Husted wrote:
> >
> >
> > On May 29, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Korhan Erel wrote:
> >
> > > You can take care of the grounding problem by connecting the audio
> > > outputs of both modulars to the same mixer, can't you?
> > >
> >
> > In most cases this will work fine unless the mixer has isolated
> > grounds (very rare). The only thing needed really is only on ground
> > line between both units. A medium gauge wire from module mounting
> > screws would do it in most cases.
> >
> > I've erased my emails so don't know who posted it but someone
> > mentioned the method of drilling out and enlarging the holes in the
> > current plastic jacks and still using them - brilliant idea! if
> > carefully done the tip part of the jack could still be used and make
> > contact with the banana and even the normalizing preserved. It would
> > be time consuming for sure and disassembly and re-assembly of the
> > jacks contacts needed but it would look great and still support the pcb.
> >
> > -James
> >
> >
>

The jacks work this way. This is a very basic description and you may  
know all of this already. Since these are plastic jacks there are two  
contacts that physically touch the 1/8 inch plug when inserted. The  
Ground (or Earth for our English brethren) touches the sleeve (closest  
to the outside of the module) and the signal touches the tip. The  
jacks used have 4 legs soldered to the PCB. one leg each go to the  
springy metal leaf that connects to the tip and sleeve. the other two  
legs opposite of them connect to two metal pieces the these springy  
metal parts rest against when no plug is inserted thusly making a  
"normalized" connection (the non plugged jack is considered in it's  
normal state - plugging in something makes it not normal - go figure).  
Typically there is no reason to use the normalization on the ground of  
the jack. This is mainly used in headphone type situations when you  
want to completely switch a isolated circuit between two destinations  
(switching off the speakers when inserting headphones for example). I  
doubt that it is used this way anywhere in the Doepfer system since  
the ground is shared in all modules but I may be wrong. In any case,  
when the plug is inserted the springy part of the connection is pushed  
away from the metal normalized contact and the connection is broken  
being replaced by the plug's signal. To make it work for banana plugs  
you have to 1) make the plastic hole larger to accommodate the banana  
plug  2)bend or cut out the ground connection so it doesn't touch any  
part of the banana (and not shorting out the signal by doing that). 3)  
Try not to bend the tip piece when drilling - you may have to do some  
slight disassembly and re-assembly. The metal pieces in the jack are  
removable and re-insertable if done with care. If done right the  
banana plug will push the contact away, breaking the normalization in  
the same manner as the 1/8 inch jack would. The main thing is to  
REMOVE THE GROUND CONTACTS from the equation. If left in they will  
short out the signal when the banana plug is inserted. This also means  
that the ground connection has to be made another way between the  
banana-modified Doepfer and any other unit patched to it.
I hope that helps some...
-James

On Jul 19, 2008, at 4:32 PM, williambbaggett wrote:

> Hi Group,  and thanks for your many  suggestions about how I might  
> use banana cords to
> interface with a Serge system.
>
> Well, I've ordered but not yet received a pretty larger Doepfer  
> system, and based on the
> advice received here,  am prepared to drill out the plastic in the  
> middle of the 3.5mm
> mini-plugs just a bit so as to to allow them to receive 4 mm banana  
> plugs. (instead of
> patch bays or adapter cables, etc.)
>
> I understand now that I have to disconnect ground from ever "banana  
> adapted" socket or
> else I would ground out the signal coming in on the banana.
>
> However,  I can't understand why trying to use banana jacks in  
> normaled sockets would
> not  create a similar problem.  I dunno, but need to know soon -  
> since I don't intend to
> touch a normaled socket until I do.
>
> THE ONE THING I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IS:
>
> James (or was it Korhan?) wrote:
>
>>> if carefully done the tip part of the jack could still be used and  
>>> make
>>> contact with the banana and EVEN THE NORMALIZING PRESERVED.
>
>
> I admit to being no expert and certainly capable of asking questions  
> without being able to
> understand the (correct) answer, but I don't really get it and I  
> certainly want to make sure
> before I stick a a banana pug in a drilled out/enalarged NORMALED  
> socket.
>
> Do I need to:
>
> (1) just leave the normaled mini-phone sockets ALONE and only drill  
> out the sockets that
> aren't?
>
> (2) somehow disable the normaling and waste a patch cord or 4  now  
> and then? (& If so,
> how?)
>
> (3) treat normaled sockets just like the rest
>
> It's this  3rd option I don't understand, and is why I write.
>
> I  looked at a schematic of a switched jack and it looked like  
> "normally" the normaled
> connection between 2 contacts is  broken by the insertion of  a mini- 
> plug (The insertion
> separates 2 contacts that would "normally" be connected)
>
> Here's the part that worries me – while the normalled connection is  
> broken, one contact is
> touching the tip of the mini-phone jack and the other contact is  
> isolated and touching the
> sleeve (or whatever you call it) of the mini-plug.
>
> So. since the banana plug has no sleeve, the two contacts would NOT  
> be isolated and the
> connection between the 2 contacts would NOT be broken when a banana  
> plug is inserted.
>
> Also, seems like the same banana plug would be connected to both  
> contacts and – So,
> what would happen to the signal carried by the banana cable? It  
> seems like this might
> result in stacking inputs (1. the normalled input that wasn't  
> disconnected with the plug
> was inserted and 2. the signal coming from the plug itself.)
>
> Well, the "question" turned out longer than I expected. Sorry, but  
> I'd appreciate any
> advice. I hope I'm wrong and can somehow use normalled inputs with  
> banana plugs, but I
> dunno... Whattaya think ?
>
>        Thank
>        Billy
>
> P.S. Please let me know if any of you have any  ideas or can foresee  
> any potential
> problems, etc. Thanks again!
>