Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2002-06-03 by synth_freak_2000
hi list, just learned today from dieter doepfer that they will release the a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for 75 euros,i think...).hooray!!! bakis. synthfreak 2000 [doepfer_a100]group moderator athens-greece
2002-06-04 by duffnuff
> they will release the > a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for 75 euros,i > think...).hooray!!! i'm happy to hear this. particularly the 75 euro part. i've been using a friend's ms20 on loan for a month or so and i'm hooked on the diode filters. i hope the doepfer diodes are capable of HP as well as LP so i can configure a pair in series similar ro the ms20 layout. thanks for the news, bakis! -duff
2002-06-04 by bakis Sirros
hi duff!, nope...the a102 diode filter is lowpass only..... bakis. --- duffnuff <duffnuff@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > they will release the > > a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for > 75 euros,i > > think...).hooray!!! > > i'm happy to hear this. particularly the 75 euro > part. i've been > using a friend's ms20 on loan for a month or so and > i'm hooked > on the diode filters. i hope the doepfer diodes are > capable of HP > as well as LP so i can configure a pair in series > similar ro the > ms20 layout. thanks for the news, bakis! > -duff > > > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-04 by ringmod45
hi duff, to the best of knowledge, the Korg ms-20 filter are of the Sallen-Key variety and not diode based. hope this helps. RM -- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote:
> > > they will release the > > a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for 75 euros,i > > think...).hooray!!! > > i'm happy to hear this. particularly the 75 euro part. i've been > using a friend's ms20 on loan for a month or so and i'm hooked > on the diode filters. i hope the doepfer diodes are capable of HP > as well as LP so i can configure a pair in series similar ro the > ms20 layout. thanks for the news, bakis! > -duff
2002-06-04 by code_pig
RM, You're spot on. The Korg MS20 does, in fact, use the Sallen-Key type filter. The reason Korg went with that particular design (to the best of MY knowledge) it is a relatively inexpensive filter that is easily switched between LP, BP, and HP. In other words, Sallen-Key filters are a cheap way to include more than one filter. Regards, Kevin --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote: > hi duff, to the best of knowledge, the Korg ms-20 filter are of the > Sallen-Key variety and not diode based. hope this helps. > RM > > > > > -- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote: > > > > > they will release the > > > a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for 75 euros,i > > > think...).hooray!!! > > > > i'm happy to hear this. particularly the 75 euro part. i've been > > using a friend's ms20 on loan for a month or so and i'm hooked > > on the diode filters. i hope the doepfer diodes are capable of HP
> > as well as LP so i can configure a pair in series similar ro the > > ms20 layout. thanks for the news, bakis! > > -duff
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
> hi duff, to the best of knowledge, the Korg ms-20 filter are of the > Sallen-Key variety and not diode based. hope this helps. > RM rm, thanks for the clarification. i do like the sound of those sallen-keys then! somehow the idea that they're diodes got planted into my brain..not sure how. so i guess in this case i think i'd like to look into finding something that uses cheap sallen-keys innards (or something) that helps make these nice fizzy, foamy, band pass sounds. obviously there's more to getting that smoothness than just a HP/LP-in-series. not sure, but it sounds like the sallen-key(s) in the ms20 must have a fairly gentle filter slope..anyone know for sure? the resonance of each filter comes on so nicely without being overbearing.. -duff
2002-06-05 by code_pig
Duff, Sallen-Key filters are 2 pole filters. Also, using a true Sallen-Key filter for bandpass purposes isn't really advised, as the input resistor is a very low value, and changing the value also changes the overall behavior and characteristics of the filter. That said, Korg did a very nice job of it, so the whole bandpass thing could be argued. Regards, Kevin
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
code_pig@y...> wrote: > using a true Sallen-Key > filter for bandpass purposes isn't really advised, as the input > resistor is a very low value, and changing the value also changes the > overall behavior and characteristics of the filter. thanks kevin, interesting.. actually, i think i misarticulated by saying 'fuzzy bandpass' ..what i meant was more general, like a fuzzy midrangy mellowness. ..looking at the ms20, it has a LP and a HP (no BP) so adjusting the 2 filters towards each other (in series) is what gave me a band pass. and of course if i continue turning the knobs this direction the cutoff freqs overlap and the filters cancel each other out. so this is what i was referring to when i mentioned the pleasant bandpass sound..all that stuff in between. also, maybe worth noting that neither filter is multimode, both fixed mode, so no chance of bandpass within either sallen-key circuit. perhaps the risky sallen-key / bandpass scenario you mention is a reason the two korg filters are configured the way they are. i really like the 2 pole..how does this filter-differentiation correspond in terms of db slope? 2 pole = (?)db slope? this excursion also perks my interest in the a108..and attention to controlling slope in general. -duff
2002-06-05 by code_pig
Duff, 2 pole filtering has a 12dB per octave cutoff. Also, I think you'll find that when one uses a LPF and a HPF together, what is created is a notch filter (see the A121 documentation for a graphic explanation). Hope that helps a bit. Regards, Kevin
2002-06-05 by Paul Schulz
One pole always corresponds to a slope of -6dB/oct; 2 poles = -12db/oct 4 poles = -24db/oct etc...
----- Original Message ----- From: duffnuff To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:37 AM Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: the a102 diode filter./sallen-key i really like the 2 pole..how does this filter-differentiation correspond in terms of db slope? 2 pole = (?)db slope? this excursion also perks my interest in the a108..and attention to controlling slope in general. -duff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
<code_pig@y...> wrote: > when one uses a LPF and a HPF together, what is created is > a notch filter (see the A121 documentation for a graphic explanation). keven, paul, thanks for the info and the recources. i'm confused about the LP=HP=Notch idea though. clearly, by listening, the result of these 2 ms20 filters in series is either HP only, LP only, or BP (vaguely BP, when top and bottom are cut off, leaving the middle.) to imagine a picture of the graphical representation, i think the curve would look like an 'M' but only during very high resonance settings. w no resonance, however, the center of the 'M' will become flattened or even bell-shaped across the top as the peaks are reduced to 0. i think to achieve a notch they would have to be in parallel which is not an option on the korg. at any rate, thanks. i have a much clearer idea as to what is going on behind these sounds i like. -duff
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
> thanks for the info and the recources. i'm confused about the > LP=HP=Notch sorry, that was neant to read : "thanks for the resources, i'm confused about the LP+HP=Notch" -d
2002-06-05 by code_pig
Duff, Try this link to understand about combining filters: http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a121_man.htm Regards, Kevin --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote:
> > thanks for the info and the recources. i'm confused about the > > LP=HP=Notch > > sorry, that was neant to read : > > "thanks for the resources, i'm confused about the LP+HP=Notch" > -d
2002-06-05 by buechlerjoe
HP + LP Series = Bandpass HP + LP Parallel = Notch LP + LP Series = Double Slope LP + LP Parallel = Double Resonance Joe --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote:
> > thanks for the info and the recources. i'm confused about the > > LP=HP=Notch > > sorry, that was neant to read : > > "thanks for the resources, i'm confused about the LP+HP=Notch" > -d
2002-06-05 by code_pig
I think (and I'm not really sure because it's been a LONG time since I played with one), that the filters of the MS20 can only be configured in parallel... but I could be wrong. Also, with the arguement of Sallen-Key filters making poor bandpass filters, I'm left wondering. Anyonr out there want to help clear up how the Korg MS20 filters can be configured? Thanks, Kevin --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> HP + LP Series = Bandpass > HP + LP Parallel = Notch > LP + LP Series = Double Slope > LP + LP Parallel = Double Resonance > > Joe > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote: > > > thanks for the info and the recources. i'm confused about the > > > LP=HP=Notch > > > > sorry, that was neant to read : > > > > "thanks for the resources, i'm confused about the LP+HP=Notch" > > -d
2002-06-05 by buechlerjoe
Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What instrument is usually associated with a diode filter? Joe --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "code_pig" <code_pig@y...> wrote: > RM, > > You're spot on. The Korg MS20 does, in fact, use the Sallen-Key type > filter. The reason Korg went with that particular design (to the > best of MY knowledge) it is a relatively inexpensive filter that is > easily switched between LP, BP, and HP. In other words, Sallen-Key > filters are a cheap way to include more than one filter. > > Regards, > Kevin > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote: > > hi duff, to the best of knowledge, the Korg ms-20 filter are of the
> > Sallen-Key variety and not diode based. hope this helps. > > RM > > > > > > > > > > -- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > they will release the > > > > a102 diode filter,in about august or september(for 75 euros,i > > > > think...).hooray!!! > > > > > > i'm happy to hear this. particularly the 75 euro part. i've > been > > > using a friend's ms20 on loan for a month or so and i'm hooked > > > on the diode filters. i hope the doepfer diodes are capable of > HP > > > as well as LP so i can configure a pair in series similar ro the > > > ms20 layout. thanks for the news, bakis! > > > -duff
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
> Anyonr out there want to help clear up how the Korg MS20 filters can > be configured? i'm playing one now..and as i've mentioned repeatedly, if you turn the HP and LP cutoff freqs against each other the sound disappears. this could not occur if they were in parallel. i don't have any doubts as to how it's configured (they're in series), i just didn't know what type of filter it is or what slope it has. now i'm very happy to know! thanks.. -duff
2002-06-05 by modularcharles
The TB-303. --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What instrument is
> usually associated with a diode filter? > > Joe
2002-06-05 by modularcharles
No argument there. However, that wasn't the question. The question was "what instrument is *usually* associated with a diode filter". The obvious answer is the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads worldwide. Most of those people haven't even heard of EMS. Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't apply here. Better luck next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a good use for the word and all that caffeine sometime soon. --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! > > > Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > > >The TB-303. > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > > > >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What instrument
> >is > >> usually associated with a diode filter? > >> > >> Joe
2002-06-05 by modularcharles
The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as described in this document: http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- 303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 Therefore, it is your information which is wrong and not mine. All the best back, --Charles --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade and has nothing to do with diode filtering. > Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS is it wrong to give such information. > Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > all the best > axel > > Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > > >No argument there. > > > >However, that wasn't the question. The question was "what instrument > >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". The obvious answer is > >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads worldwide. Most of those > >people haven't even heard of EMS. > > > >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't apply here. Better luck > >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a good use for the word and > >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! > >> > >> > >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > >> > >> >The TB-303. > >> > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What > >instrument > >> >is > >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? > >> >> > >> >> Joe > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
2002-06-05 by modularcharles
Yes, I should have added that while the TB-303 has the most widely- known diode filter, emulated on umpteen computers in ReBirth, in Oakley's superladder filter and TB-3031, and elsewhere, it's basically a -18 dB version of the Moog design, and that the Doepfer diode filter would be patterned on the EMS, as is the version sold by Modcan. People who want to get a sense of the sound of an EMS-type diode filter can check out this mp3 of the Modcan version: http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 As you'll hear, yes, it has a unique sound and definitely not that of the TB-303 (which also has a unique sound). --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > An original moog filter like the minimoog has 24 dB-lowpass- filters, a four time special tuned cascade of 6dB. > the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., which have lite other tunings and another saturation. > The particular of the A-102 is the dependence between emphasis and cutoff, there are modulations between the > two components by tuning one of it or both. > It is not the same as the A-103, which is a rebuild of the TB303 filter. > If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS Synth, you would know the difference between these filters. > I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and know both. > The A-102 will be a very special filter with a very good and different sound to the TB303, believe me! > best regards > Axel > > Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > > >The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as described in this > >document: > > > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- > >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > > > >Therefore, it is your information which is wrong and not mine. > > > >All the best back, > > > >--Charles > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade and has nothing to do > >with diode filtering. > >> Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS is it wrong to give > >such information. > >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > >> all the best > >> axel > >> > >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > >> > >> >No argument there. > >> > > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The question was "what > >instrument > >> >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". The obvious answer > >is > >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads worldwide. Most of those > >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. > >> > > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't apply here. Better > >luck > >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a good use for the word > >and > >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. > >> > > >> > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > >> > > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: > >> >> > >> >> >The TB-303. > >> >> > > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> > >wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What > >> >instrument > >> >> >is > >> >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Joe > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
2002-06-05 by buechlerjoe
You can make the sound disappear in either configuration. The test is whether you can hear TWO separate bands of audio passing thru the filter combination (high and low), or just ONE. If two bands, the filters are in parallel - a notch filter configuration; and if one band, they're in series - a bandpass configuration. Hope that helps. Joe --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "duffnuff" <duffnuff@h...> wrote: > > > Anyonr out there want to help clear up how the Korg MS20 > filters can > > be configured? > > i'm playing one now..and as i've mentioned repeatedly, if you turn > the HP and LP cutoff freqs against each other the sound > disappears. this could not occur if they were in parallel. > > i don't have any doubts as to how it's configured (they're in > series), i just didn't know what type of filter it is or what slope it
> has. now i'm very happy to know! thanks.. > > -duff
2002-06-05 by duffnuff
>If two bands, the filters are in parallel - a notch filter configuration; > and if one band, they're in series - a bandpass configuration. that makes sense..ok, it sounds like one band. looking at a fft display, looks like one band. the bell gets wide and narrow and moves up and down the freq scale but never splits except when there is high res on both HP and LP, and here the res of each overpowers the osc to the point of no longer behaving like a filter but more like a pair of sine wave generators. i wouldn't call that a notch filter. thanks all.. -duff
2002-06-05 by phaedra@t-online.de
Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@rcn.com>:
>The TB-303. > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What instrument >is >> usually associated with a diode filter? >> >> Joe > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2002-06-05 by phaedra@t-online.de
The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade and has nothing to do with diode filtering. Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS is it wrong to give such information. Better nothing than something wrong, okay? all the best axel Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@rcn.com>:
>No argument there. > >However, that wasn't the question. The question was "what instrument >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". The obvious answer is >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads worldwide. Most of those >people haven't even heard of EMS. > >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't apply here. Better luck >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a good use for the word and >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! >> >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: >> >> >The TB-303. >> > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: >> > >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What >instrument >> >is >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? >> >> >> >> Joe > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2002-06-05 by phaedra@t-online.de
An original moog filter like the minimoog has 24 dB-lowpass-filters, a four time special tuned cascade of 6dB. the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., which have lite other tunings and another saturation. The particular of the A-102 is the dependence between emphasis and cutoff, there are modulations between the two components by tuning one of it or both. It is not the same as the A-103, which is a rebuild of the TB303 filter. If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS Synth, you would know the difference between these filters. I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and know both. The A-102 will be a very special filter with a very good and different sound to the TB303, believe me! best regards Axel Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@rcn.com>:
>The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as described in this >document: > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > >Therefore, it is your information which is wrong and not mine. > >All the best back, > >--Charles > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade and has nothing to do >with diode filtering. >> Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS is it wrong to give >such information. >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? >> all the best >> axel >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: >> >> >No argument there. >> > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The question was "what >instrument >> >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". The obvious answer >is >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads worldwide. Most of those >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. >> > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't apply here. Better >luck >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a good use for the word >and >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. >> > >> > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: >> > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! >> >> >> >> >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" <ospengler@r...>: >> >> >> >> >The TB-303. >> >> > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> >wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to fame? What >> >instrument >> >> >is >> >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? >> >> >> >> >> >> Joe >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... >> > >> > >> > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> > >> > >> > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >
2002-06-05 by buechlerjoe
> the bell gets wide and narrow and > moves up and down the freq scale It's probably worth pointing out that the A121 only gives you the second one of these, not the first, the width control. To get fully controllable bandpass and notch filtering, you need two separate filters, each with their own frequency cutoff controls. Joe
2002-06-06 by modularcharles
I believe you're indulging in a somewhat academic distinction here between diodes qua diodes and transistors configured as diodes. As Bruce Duncan, who designed Modcan's EMS-styled diode filter points out about: "The overall sound [of the EMS-style diode filter] is 303ish with very high resonance capabilities." Again, I suggest listening to the sound of his demo: http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 The sound is certainly much cleaner than a 303's, for obvious reasons, but one could only describe it as indeed "303ish". I really don't know why some people have such objections to diode filters sounding like a 303, or 303s having diode filters. --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
> hello, > if you read carefully to the text about the tb303 > filterthat you have told us about,you'll see that the > tb303 uses "...transistors used as diodes..."and NOT > diodes as the ems filter.the ems filter uses diodes!!! > bakis. > > > --- modularcharles <ospengler@r...> wrote: > > Yes, I should have added that while the TB-303 has > > the most widely- > > known diode filter, emulated on umpteen computers in > > ReBirth, in > > Oakley's superladder filter and TB-3031, and > > elsewhere, it's > > basically a -18 dB version of the Moog design, and > > that the Doepfer > > diode filter would be patterned on the EMS, as is > > the version sold by > > Modcan. > > > > People who want to get a sense of the sound of an > > EMS-type diode > > filter can check out this mp3 of the Modcan version: > > > > http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 > > > > As you'll hear, yes, it has a unique sound and > > definitely not that of > > the TB-303 (which also has a unique sound). > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > An original moog filter like the minimoog has 24 > > dB-lowpass- > > filters, a four time special tuned cascade of 6dB. > > > the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., > > which have lite > > other tunings and another saturation. > > > The particular of the A-102 is the dependence > > between emphasis and > > cutoff, there are modulations between the > > > two components by tuning one of it or both. > > > It is not the same as the A-103, which is a > > rebuild of the TB303 > > filter. > > > If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS Synth, > > you would know > > the difference between these filters. > > > I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and > > know both. > > > The A-102 will be a very special filter with a > > very good and > > different sound to the TB303, believe me! > > > best regards > > > Axel > > > > > > Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > > > >The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as > > described in this > > > >document: > > > > > > > > > > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- > > > >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > > > > > > > >Therefore, it is your information which is wrong > > and not mine. > > > > > > > >All the best back, > > > > > > > >--Charles > > > > > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade > > and has nothing to > > do > > > >with diode filtering. > > > >> Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS > > is it wrong to > > give > > > >such information. > > > >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > > > >> all the best > > > >> axel > > > >> > > > >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > >> > > > >> >No argument there. > > > >> > > > > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The > > question was "what > > > >instrument > > > >> >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". > > The obvious > > answer > > > >is > > > >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads > > worldwide. Most of those > > > >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. > > > >> > > > > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't > > apply here. > > Better > > > >luck > > > >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a > > good use for the > > word > > > >and > > > >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS > > synthesizers! > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb > > "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> >The TB-303. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > > <buechlerjoe@t...> > > > >wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's > > claim to fame? What > > > >> >instrument > > > >> >> >is > > > >> >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Joe > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > > to: > > > >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > synthfreak(parallel worlds) > athens-greece > [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
what??i don't think so...the tb303 uses a modified moog ladder filter,right??.the VCS3 uses the diode filter,of course... bakis. --- modularcharles <ospengler@rcn.com> wrote: > The TB-303. > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > > > Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to > fame? What instrument > is > > usually associated with a diode filter? > > > > Joe > > > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
hey,hey!!!don't ever use the E** word again ;-) bakis. --- phaedra@t-online.de wrote: > Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS synthesizers! > > > Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb "modularcharles" > <ospengler@rcn.com>: > > >The TB-303. > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote: > > > >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's claim to > fame? What instrument > >is > >> usually associated with a diode filter? > >> > >> Joe > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
hi list, i have two ms20's and i have the original korg ms20 user's manual.the ms20 has two filters in SERIES.end of discussion.:-) bakis. --- duffnuff <duffnuff@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >If two bands, the filters are in parallel - a notch > filter > configuration; > > and if one band, they're in series - a bandpass > configuration. > > that makes sense..ok, it sounds like one band. > looking at a fft > display, looks like one band. the bell gets wide > and narrow and > moves up and down the freq scale but never splits > except when > there is high res on both HP and LP, and here the > res of each > overpowers the osc to the point of no longer > behaving like a filter > but more like a pair of sine wave generators. i > wouldn't call that > a notch filter. thanks all.. > -duff > > > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
hello, if you read carefully to the text about the tb303 filterthat you have told us about,you'll see that the tb303 uses "...transistors used as diodes..."and NOT diodes as the ems filter.the ems filter uses diodes!!! bakis. --- modularcharles <ospengler@rcn.com> wrote: > Yes, I should have added that while the TB-303 has > the most widely- > known diode filter, emulated on umpteen computers in > ReBirth, in > Oakley's superladder filter and TB-3031, and > elsewhere, it's > basically a -18 dB version of the Moog design, and > that the Doepfer > diode filter would be patterned on the EMS, as is > the version sold by > Modcan. > > People who want to get a sense of the sound of an > EMS-type diode > filter can check out this mp3 of the Modcan version: > > http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 > > As you'll hear, yes, it has a unique sound and > definitely not that of > the TB-303 (which also has a unique sound). > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > An original moog filter like the minimoog has 24 > dB-lowpass- > filters, a four time special tuned cascade of 6dB. > > the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., > which have lite > other tunings and another saturation. > > The particular of the A-102 is the dependence > between emphasis and > cutoff, there are modulations between the > > two components by tuning one of it or both. > > It is not the same as the A-103, which is a > rebuild of the TB303 > filter. > > If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS Synth, > you would know > the difference between these filters. > > I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and > know both. > > The A-102 will be a very special filter with a > very good and > different sound to the TB303, believe me! > > best regards > > Axel > > > > Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > >The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as > described in this > > >document: > > > > > > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- > > >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > > > > > >Therefore, it is your information which is wrong > and not mine. > > > > > >All the best back, > > > > > >--Charles > > > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade > and has nothing to > do > > >with diode filtering. > > >> Also when many people havn't even heard of EMS > is it wrong to > give > > >such information. > > >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > > >> all the best > > >> axel > > >> > > >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb "modularcharles" > <ospengler@r...>: > > >> > > >> >No argument there. > > >> > > > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The > question was "what > > >instrument > > >> >is *usually* associated with a diode filter". > The obvious > answer > > >is > > >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads > worldwide. Most of those > > >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. > > >> > > > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't > apply here. > Better > > >luck > > >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a > good use for the > word > > >and > > >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS > synthesizers! > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb > "modularcharles" > <ospengler@r...>: > > >> >> > > >> >> >The TB-303. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > <buechlerjoe@t...> > > >wrote: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's > claim to fame? What > > >> >instrument > > >> >> >is > > >> >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Joe > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
hi list, o.k....(dieter will probably kill me for this...)i have a very,very early unfinished A102 diode filter prototype.i can tell you it sounds REALLY different from all the other a100 filters.sounds somewhat like my vcs3 but that's not really the point.what matters is that it sounds GOOD!!dieter told me that the a102 module that will go into production is much better than my early prototype.so,i think,it will be really good!!(sorry,dieter...:-)) bakis. --- bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com> wrote: > hello, > if you read carefully to the text about the tb303 > filterthat you have told us about,you'll see that > the > tb303 uses "...transistors used as diodes..."and NOT > diodes as the ems filter.the ems filter uses > diodes!!! > bakis. > > > --- modularcharles <ospengler@rcn.com> wrote: > > Yes, I should have added that while the TB-303 has > > the most widely- > > known diode filter, emulated on umpteen computers > in > > ReBirth, in > > Oakley's superladder filter and TB-3031, and > > elsewhere, it's > > basically a -18 dB version of the Moog design, and > > that the Doepfer > > diode filter would be patterned on the EMS, as is > > the version sold by > > Modcan. > > > > People who want to get a sense of the sound of an > > EMS-type diode > > filter can check out this mp3 of the Modcan > version: > > > > http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 > > > > As you'll hear, yes, it has a unique sound and > > definitely not that of > > the TB-303 (which also has a unique sound). > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > An original moog filter like the minimoog has 24 > > dB-lowpass- > > filters, a four time special tuned cascade of 6dB. > > > the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., > > which have lite > > other tunings and another saturation. > > > The particular of the A-102 is the dependence > > between emphasis and > > cutoff, there are modulations between the > > > two components by tuning one of it or both. > > > It is not the same as the A-103, which is a > > rebuild of the TB303 > > filter. > > > If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS > Synth, > > you would know > > the difference between these filters. > > > I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and > > know both. > > > The A-102 will be a very special filter with a > > very good and > > different sound to the TB303, believe me! > > > best regards > > > Axel > > > > > > Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > > > >The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, as > > described in this > > > >document: > > > > > > > > > > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- > > > >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > > > > > > > >Therefore, it is your information which is > wrong > > and not mine. > > > > > > > >All the best back, > > > > > > > >--Charles > > > > > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog cascade > > and has nothing to > > do > > > >with diode filtering. > > > >> Also when many people havn't even heard of > EMS > > is it wrong to > > give > > > >such information. > > > >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > > > >> all the best > > > >> axel > > > >> > > > >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb > "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > >> > > > >> >No argument there. > > > >> > > > > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The > > question was "what > > > >instrument > > > >> >is *usually* associated with a diode > filter". > > The obvious > > answer > > > >is > > > >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads > > worldwide. Most of those > > > >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. > > > >> > > > > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really doesn't > > apply here. > > Better > > > >luck > > > >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find a > > good use for the > > word > > > >and > > > >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS > > synthesizers! > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb > > "modularcharles" > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> >The TB-303. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > > <buechlerjoe@t...> > > > >wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's > > claim to fame? What > > > >> >instrument > > > >> >> >is > > > >> >> >> usually associated with a diode filter? > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> Joe > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email > > to: > > > >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > > >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > synthfreak(parallel worlds) > athens-greece > [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-06 by bakis Sirros
o.k.,one thing i know for sure: i own a vcs3 and it sounds NOT like a tb303.and i have heard a tb303 too many times.maybe the modcan diode filter sounds a bit like the tb303....but not the real vcs3!!! bakis. --- modularcharles <ospengler@rcn.com> wrote: > I believe you're indulging in a somewhat academic > distinction here > between diodes qua diodes and transistors configured > as diodes. > > As Bruce Duncan, who designed Modcan's EMS-styled > diode filter points > out about: > > "The overall sound [of the EMS-style diode filter] > is 303ish with > very high resonance capabilities." > > Again, I suggest listening to the sound of his demo: > > http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 > > The sound is certainly much cleaner than a 303's, > for obvious > reasons, but one could only describe it as indeed > "303ish". > > I really don't know why some people have such > objections to diode > filters sounding like a 303, or 303s having diode > filters. > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., bakis Sirros > <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote: > > hello, > > if you read carefully to the text about the tb303 > > filterthat you have told us about,you'll see that > the > > tb303 uses "...transistors used as diodes..."and > NOT > > diodes as the ems filter.the ems filter uses > diodes!!! > > bakis. > > > > > > --- modularcharles <ospengler@r...> wrote: > > > Yes, I should have added that while the TB-303 > has > > > the most widely- > > > known diode filter, emulated on umpteen > computers in > > > ReBirth, in > > > Oakley's superladder filter and TB-3031, and > > > elsewhere, it's > > > basically a -18 dB version of the Moog design, > and > > > that the Doepfer > > > diode filter would be patterned on the EMS, as > is > > > the version sold by > > > Modcan. > > > > > > People who want to get a sense of the sound of > an > > > EMS-type diode > > > filter can check out this mp3 of the Modcan > version: > > > > > > http://www.mazilu.com/mp3/Diode.MP3 > > > > > > As you'll hear, yes, it has a unique sound and > > > definitely not that of > > > the TB-303 (which also has a unique sound). > > > > > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > > An original moog filter like the minimoog has > 24 > > > dB-lowpass- > > > filters, a four time special tuned cascade of > 6dB. > > > > the TB303 has a rebuild 3 cascade with 18 dB., > > > which have lite > > > other tunings and another saturation. > > > > The particular of the A-102 is the dependence > > > between emphasis and > > > cutoff, there are modulations between the > > > > two components by tuning one of it or both. > > > > It is not the same as the A-103, which is a > > > rebuild of the TB303 > > > filter. > > > > If you ever heard of or worked with an EMS > Synth, > > > you would know > > > the difference between these filters. > > > > I'm not a technician, but I have good ears and > > > know both. > > > > The A-102 will be a very special filter with a > > > very good and > > > different sound to the TB303, believe me! > > > > best regards > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > Am 05.06.02 18:08:35, schrieb "modularcharles" > > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > > > > > >The TB-303 filter is in fact a diode filter, > as > > > described in this > > > > >document: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TB- > > > > >303/info/roland.TB-303.secrets?0048 > > > > > > > > > >Therefore, it is your information which is > wrong > > > and not mine. > > > > > > > > > >All the best back, > > > > > > > > > >--Charles > > > > > > > > > >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... wrote: > > > > >> The TB303-filter is a three time moog > cascade > > > and has nothing to > > > do > > > > >with diode filtering. > > > > >> Also when many people havn't even heard of > EMS > > > is it wrong to > > > give > > > > >such information. > > > > >> Better nothing than something wrong, okay? > > > > >> all the best > > > > >> axel > > > > >> > > > > >> Am 05.06.02 17:55:24, schrieb > "modularcharles" > > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > >> > > > > >> >No argument there. > > > > >> > > > > > >> >However, that wasn't the question. The > > > question was "what > > > > >instrument > > > > >> >is *usually* associated with a diode > filter". > > > The obvious > > > answer > > > > >is > > > > >> >the TB-303, fetishized by technoheads > > > worldwide. Most of those > > > > >> >people haven't even heard of EMS. > > > > >> > > > > > >> >Therefore the word "bullshit" really > doesn't > > > apply here. > > > Better > > > > >luck > > > > >> >next time, though -- I'm sure you'll find > a > > > good use for the > > > word > > > > >and > > > > >> >all that caffeine sometime soon. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., phaedra@t... > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> >> Bullshit! It is the filter of the EMS > > > synthesizers! > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> Am 05.06.02 17:42:22, schrieb > > > "modularcharles" > > > <ospengler@r...>: > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >The TB-303. > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> >--- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" > > > <buechlerjoe@t...> > > > > >wrote: > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> Meanwhile, what's the diode filter's > > > claim to fame? What > > > > >> >instrument > > > > >> >> >is > > > > >> >> >> usually associated with a diode > filter? > > > > >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> Joe > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email > > > to: > > > > >> >doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@y... > > > > >> > > === message truncated === ===== synthfreak(parallel worlds) athens-greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
2002-06-07 by Florian Anwander
Hi Bakis > > The TB-303. > what??i don't think so...the tb303 uses a modified > moog ladder filter,right??. The Transistors in the TB303 are only used like Diodes. Florian -- Florian Anwander |ConSol* HP-Support Tel. +49.89.45841-133 |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH Fax +49.89.45841-139 |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de
2002-06-07 by Florian Anwander
Florian Anwander wrote: > The Transistors in the TB303 are only used like Diodes. I have to make the addition: in opposite the transistors in a Moog ladder behave something like current controlled resistors. Florian -- Florian Anwander |ConSol* HP-Support Tel. +49.89.45841-133 |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH Fax +49.89.45841-139 |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de