Doepfer

I have an A-190 which does all the basics very nicely. However, there 
are a few weirdies with it which I don't entirely understand.

1) Gate is NOT automatically patched into my A-143-2 quad ADSR. Is this 
because my A-190 is on the top rail and my A-143-2 is on the lower rail?

2) The LFO function seems to alter the amplitude of vibrato my mod 
wheel has on the note, and NOT the frequency as specified in the manual.

3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock signals 
from my sequencer (AFAIK). I was under the impression that it converted 
clock ticks from my sequencer's clock into gates, but the the 'clock' 
LED stays firmly unlit at all times regardless how much other sequenced 
information is sent. Is this normal? Have I misunderstood something? 
The only time I've had it light is when I patch a gate signal from 
another module (say, the A-143-2) IN to it!

4) There seems to be no way of enabling portamento without sending midi 
signals to the unit first - something my master keyboard does not do.

Overall, so far I'm tempted to 'downgrade' to the new midi unit when 
it's released!

Many thanks for any help. I've read all the manuals, and battled away 
with this for a month, but have - as yet - to gain any insight into 
what's going on.

the a143-2 is, by default, not receiving gate signals from the busboard and, so, it is normal not to receive gates from the a190.
 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Tue, 11/18/08, madrayken <dene.carter@gmail.com> wrote:

From: madrayken <dene.carter@gmail.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] A-190 weirdness - anyone have any words of wisdom?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 11:04 PM






I have an A-190 which does all the basics very nicely. However, there 
are a few weirdies with it which I don't entirely understand.

1) Gate is NOT automatically patched into my A-143-2 quad ADSR. Is this 
because my A-190 is on the top rail and my A-143-2 is on the lower rail?

2) The LFO function seems to alter the amplitude of vibrato my mod 
wheel has on the note, and NOT the frequency as specified in the manual.

3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock signals 
from my sequencer (AFAIK). I was under the impression that it converted 
clock ticks from my sequencer's clock into gates, but the the 'clock' 
LED stays firmly unlit at all times regardless how much other sequenced 
information is sent. Is this normal? Have I misunderstood something? 
The only time I've had it light is when I patch a gate signal from 
another module (say, the A-143-2) IN to it!

4) There seems to be no way of enabling portamento without sending midi 
signals to the unit first - something my master keyboard does not do.

Overall, so far I'm tempted to 'downgrade' to the new midi unit when 
it's released!

Many thanks for any help. I've read all the manuals, and battled away 
with this for a month, but have - as yet - to gain any insight into 
what's going on.

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You find my answers written inline.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von madrayken
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2008 22:04
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] A-190 weirdness - anyone have any words of
> wisdom?
>
>
> I have an A-190 which does all the basics very nicely. However, there
> are a few weirdies with it which I don't entirely understand.
>
> 1) Gate is NOT automatically patched into my A-143-2 quad ADSR. Is this
> because my A-190 is on the top rail and my A-143-2 is on the lower rail?

The A-143-2 is not normalled to the gate signal of the A-100 bus. Please
refer to the A-100 DIY page to the chapter "Subsequent bus normalling of
modules" for details

> 2) The LFO function seems to alter the amplitude of vibrato my mod
> wheel has on the note, and NOT the frequency as specified in the manual.

That's normal. The A-190 manual says on page 18:

"CONTROLLER #01 (Modulation)
This controller affects modulation intensity - ie. the amount of LFO voltage
included in CV1."

I could not find a note in the A-90 user's manual that the modulation
controller changes the frequency of the LFO.

> 3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock signals
> from my sequencer (AFAIK).

Yes, that's the function of the clock out

> I was under the impression that it converted
> clock ticks from my sequencer's clock into gates, but the the 'clock'
> LED stays firmly unlit at all times regardless how much other sequenced
> information is sent

The clock output responds only to Midi clock messages. For Gate signals the
Gate output is available. Gate signals are usually generated by Midi note
on/off messages

. Is this normal? Have I misunderstood something?
> The only time I've had it light is when I patch a gate signal from
> another module (say, the A-143-2) IN to it!

The Gate socket of the A-190 is an OUTPUT !

> 4) There seems to be no way of enabling portamento without sending midi
> signals to the unit first

The portamento function becomes active not before a change in the CV1
voltage appears. And a CV1 change can be caused only by two different Midi
notes. So without a Midi signal sent to the A-190 the portamento function
cannot be checked !

> Overall, so far I'm tempted to 'downgrade' to the new midi unit when
> it's released!

Indeed the A-190-2 is much easier to handle than the A-190-1. But a few
functions are not available.

> Many thanks for any help. I've read all the manuals, and battled away
> with this for a month, but have - as yet - to gain any insight into
> what's going on.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Thanks for your replies, Dieter. I have a few followup questions 
below.

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:
<snip>
 
> > 2) The LFO function seems to alter the amplitude of vibrato my mod
> > wheel has on the note, and NOT the frequency as specified in the 
manual.
 
> That's normal. The A-190 manual says on page 18:
> 
> "CONTROLLER #01 (Modulation)
> This controller affects modulation intensity - ie. the amount of 
LFO voltage
> included in CV1."

I wasn't changing CC01. The value I was changing was the LFO freq on 
the A-190 unit. From P14 of the A-190 pdf at 
http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/A190_man.pdf:

"LFO FREQ.
The LFO Freq. parameter controls the frequency of the A-190's built-
in LFO. Use your ears to decide the correct frequency. With a 
parameter value of less than 3, the LFO is switched off. 
Set the LFO frequency (from about 0.2 Hz to 20 Hz) H The INC- / DEC- 
buttons will speed up if you keep them pressed down."

This doesn't seem to be true. It only alters the modulation intensity 
as you state above, which means it's not really acting as a definable 
LFO. I'll check again tonight to ensure I'm not being dumber than 
usual. 
 
> I could not find a note in the A-90 user's manual that the 
modulation controller changes the frequency of the LFO.

I was trying to change the freq using the LFO FREQ parameter, not via 
CC 01.

> 3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock signals
> > from my sequencer (AFAIK).
> 
> Yes, that's the function of the clock out

I'm confused. Its function is do nothing when it receives a clock 
tick from my sequencer? The LED doesn't light? What do people 
actually do with this output, then? Is it only for the clock 
divider/sequencer module?

> . Is this normal? Have I misunderstood something?
> > The only time I've had it light is when I patch a gate signal from
> > another module (say, the A-143-2) IN to it!
> 
> The Gate socket of the A-190 is an OUTPUT !

I know it's supposed to be an output, but the only time I got the LED 
to ligth was when I accidentally patched a gate signal IN.

> > 4) There seems to be no way of enabling portamento without 
sending midi signals to the unit first
> 
> The portamento function becomes active not before a change in the 
CV1
> voltage appears. And a CV1 change can be caused only by two 
different Midi
> notes. So without a Midi signal sent to the A-190 the portamento 
function
> cannot be checked !

Sorry - I should have been more specific. The only way I can get the 
portamento to start working is to first send a CC #65 (64-127), and 
then send CC #05 (to some value).

I presume this is normal.

<snip again>
> This doesn't seem to be true. It only alters the modulation intensity 
> as you state above, which means it's not really acting as a definable 
> LFO. I'll check again tonight to ensure I'm not being dumber than 
> usual. 

Checked this one. I *was* being dumb. Quelle surprise...

Hi madrayken

>> 3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock signals
>>> from my sequencer (AFAIK).
>> Yes, that's the function of the clock out
> I'm confused. Its function is do nothing when it receives a clock 
> tick from my sequencer? The LED doesn't light? What do people 
> actually do with this output, then? Is it only for the clock 
> divider/sequencer module?
Unfortunately "yes", but somehow also "no". ;-)

temposync-systems like MIDI-clock or DIN-Sync consist from two parts:
1.) the clock
2.) the action commands.

The clock usually runs all the time and provides the tempo.
The action commands say something like "Start", "Stop", "Reset" or 
similar. In MIDI these are separated command words. In DIN-sync (which 
is a two or four pole cable) there is a clock-line and (at least) a 
Gate-line which says Start(=Gate On) or Stop (=Gate Off).

Unfortunately the A-190 does not output a Start/Stop Gate like DIN-Sync 
would do, but it sends at the "Reset" output, an inverted version: it 
goes low (=Gate Off) when receiving a MIDI-Start command; and it goes 
high (=Gate on) when it receives a MIDI-Stop command.

To derive a Start/Stop-Gate like for the DIN-Sync you have to invert 
this signal with an A-165 Trigger modifier (or A-166 Logic Module)

To derive a clock which does not run when MIDI-Stop is received (e.g for 
an SH-101 sequencer or any arpeggiator clock in) then you have to feed 
the A190 clock out to the I/O-input of an A150 VC-switch, control the 
switch by the A190 reset output and pick the clock at the A150 on I/O2.

If you want to derive separated start stop triggers like for the A154 it 
becomes very complicated... :-( You need the A165 trigger modifier and 
an A166 Dual logic modul.
The A165 produces triggers at the end and(!) the start of the 
Start/Stop-Gate. You need the two Gates of the A166 with different 
AND-settings to enable the Start- and the End-trigger at separate outputs.



> Sorry - I should have been more specific. The only way I can get the 
> portamento to start working is to first send a CC #65 (64-127), and 
> then send CC #05 (to some value).
> 
> I presume this is normal.
Yes.

Florian

Huge thanks for the very thorough, helpful replies. My idiocy was in 
assuming that the clock out was a simple gate/trigger that I could 
use as an alternative LFO square wave to trigger S&H or something. 

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <fanwander@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi madrayken
> 
> >> 3) The clock-out seems to do nothing despite receiving clock 
signals
> >>> from my sequencer (AFAIK).
> >> Yes, that's the function of the clock out
> > I'm confused. Its function is do nothing when it receives a clock 
> > tick from my sequencer? The LED doesn't light? What do people 
> > actually do with this output, then? Is it only for the clock 
> > divider/sequencer module?
> Unfortunately "yes", but somehow also "no". ;-)
> 
> temposync-systems like MIDI-clock or DIN-Sync consist from two 
parts:
> 1.) the clock
> 2.) the action commands.
> 
> The clock usually runs all the time and provides the tempo.
> The action commands say something like "Start", "Stop", "Reset" or 
> similar. In MIDI these are separated command words. In DIN-sync 
(which 
> is a two or four pole cable) there is a clock-line and (at least) a 
> Gate-line which says Start(=Gate On) or Stop (=Gate Off).
> 
> Unfortunately the A-190 does not output a Start/Stop Gate like DIN-
Sync 
> would do, but it sends at the "Reset" output, an inverted version: 
it 
> goes low (=Gate Off) when receiving a MIDI-Start command; and it 
goes 
> high (=Gate on) when it receives a MIDI-Stop command.
> 
> To derive a Start/Stop-Gate like for the DIN-Sync you have to 
invert 
> this signal with an A-165 Trigger modifier (or A-166 Logic Module)
> 
> To derive a clock which does not run when MIDI-Stop is received 
(e.g for 
> an SH-101 sequencer or any arpeggiator clock in) then you have to 
feed 
> the A190 clock out to the I/O-input of an A150 VC-switch, control 
the 
> switch by the A190 reset output and pick the clock at the A150 on 
I/O2.
> 
> If you want to derive separated start stop triggers like for the 
A154 it 
> becomes very complicated... :-( You need the A165 trigger modifier 
and 
> an A166 Dual logic modul.
> The A165 produces triggers at the end and(!) the start of the 
> Start/Stop-Gate. You need the two Gates of the A166 with different 
> AND-settings to enable the Start- and the End-trigger at separate 
outputs.
> 
> 
> 
> > Sorry - I should have been more specific. The only way I can get 
the 
> > portamento to start working is to first send a CC #65 (64-127), 
and 

> > then send CC #05 (to some value).
> > 
> > I presume this is normal.
> Yes.
> 
> Florian
>

Hi

madrayken schrieb:
> Huge thanks for the very thorough, helpful replies. My idiocy was in 
> assuming that the clock out was a simple gate/trigger that I could 
> use as an alternative LFO square wave to trigger S&H or something. 

In fact it is, but it is a damn' fast LFO ;-)

Florian

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von madrayken
> Gesendet: Freitag, 21. November 2008 11:53
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: A-190 weirdness - anyone have any words of
> wisdom?
>
>
> Huge thanks for the very thorough, helpful replies. My idiocy was in
> assuming that the clock out was a simple gate/trigger that I could
> use as an alternative LFO square wave to trigger S&H or something.

Of course you can treat the clock output as a rectangle LFO that is in snyc
with the midi clock. As the midi clock is 96 beats per measure you have to
adjust the clock dividing factor to a suitable value (or use an external
divider). If you e.g. use 6 you obtain a "rectangle LFO" with 1/16 period,
if you choose 12 the period is 1/8. You may e.g. trigger a S&H with this
clock to obtain a stepped voltage that changes e.g. every eighth or
sixteenth. Very useful to control e.g. a VCF with high resonance.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer