Doepfer

Regarding the RS-210 vs 512 stage A-188-1


> The RS-210 comb filter has a much shorter delay than even a 512 BBD
> can do,

I agree they are quite different modules though I have noticed there  
is an MN3207 (1024 stage) in the RS-210. It's range is 2.5ms to 25ms.  
Clearly ASys stays within the best operating range of that chip, So  
I'm not sure that statement is accurate especially since one isn't  
limited to choosing a 512 stage Doepfer, nothing but money will stop  
you from working with a 128 or 256 stage module for even shorter times.

> there is a HUGE difference being that the doepfer BBDs are
> much more versatile than the comb filter.

I see the Doepfer module as the most versatile opportunity out there  
(aside from DIY) to control and mess with a BBD chip on a low level.  
The price you pay (not that the Doepfer is expensive compared to  
others) is it's intentionally missing the additional circuitry and  
range restriction that most other companies implement to improve  
fidelity.

In my opinion a Doepfer is a great choice for experimental delay  
artifact based sounds and a not that great choice if one wants  
fidelity in a BBD delay. One could argue a bit that even maximized, a  
BBD lacks fidelity in comparison to other delay methods, but that  
said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units. As I  
understand it, most other BBD based builders include steep filtering,  
which Doepfer suggests a costly external module option for.  Then  
there is companding, which they don't seem to bring up in the manual  
but others frequently include it. I guess in an ideal world module  
makers using signal treatments would let you apply the fidelity  
improvements as options rather than hardwired or not offered at all.

> The comb filter is a nice
> module, but much less versatile. It's got a nice distinct sound to
> me, but is not a BBD replacement.

Well it is a BBD based delay though less extreme with less feedback  
and control options. As a minor point the RS-210 has no VC resonance.  
One could implement it with a VCA and you do get the second audio in  
to make that easier.


> For Karplus stuff I use a 188-1
> 512stages and recently added the ASys Echo (I forget the model number
> now).

that's a VC controlled digital module, right?

Nick

"but that
said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units"
what other manufacturers would you suggest?

On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 5:55 AM, zaum <zaum@optonline.net> wrote:

>   Regarding the RS-210 vs 512 stage A-188-1
>
>
> > The RS-210 comb filter has a much shorter delay than even a 512 BBD
> > can do,
>
> I agree they are quite different modules though I have noticed there
> is an MN3207 (1024 stage) in the RS-210. It's range is 2.5ms to 25ms.
> Clearly ASys stays within the best operating range of that chip, So
> I'm not sure that statement is accurate especially since one isn't
> limited to choosing a 512 stage Doepfer, nothing but money will stop
> you from working with a 128 or 256 stage module for even shorter times.
>
> > there is a HUGE difference being that the doepfer BBDs are
> > much more versatile than the comb filter.
>
> I see the Doepfer module as the most versatile opportunity out there
> (aside from DIY) to control and mess with a BBD chip on a low level.
> The price you pay (not that the Doepfer is expensive compared to
> others) is it's intentionally missing the additional circuitry and
> range restriction that most other companies implement to improve
> fidelity.
>
> In my opinion a Doepfer is a great choice for experimental delay
> artifact based sounds and a not that great choice if one wants
> fidelity in a BBD delay. One could argue a bit that even maximized, a
> BBD lacks fidelity in comparison to other delay methods, but that
> said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units. As I
> understand it, most other BBD based builders include steep filtering,
> which Doepfer suggests a costly external module option for. Then
> there is companding, which they don't seem to bring up in the manual
> but others frequently include it. I guess in an ideal world module
> makers using signal treatments would let you apply the fidelity
> improvements as options rather than hardwired or not offered at all.
>
> > The comb filter is a nice
> > module, but much less versatile. It's got a nice distinct sound to
> > me, but is not a BBD replacement.
>
> Well it is a BBD based delay though less extreme with less feedback
> and control options. As a minor point the RS-210 has no VC resonance.
> One could implement it with a VCA and you do get the second audio in
> to make that easier.
>
> > For Karplus stuff I use a 188-1
> > 512stages and recently added the ASys Echo (I forget the model number
> > now).
>
> that's a VC controlled digital module, right?
>
> Nick
>
>  
>



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