Doepfer

The following Doepfer_a100 poll is now closed.  Here are the 
final results: 


POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators, dynamics... 

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- yes, 33 votes, 71.74%  
- no, 13 votes, 28.26%  

INDIVIDUAL VOTES
- yes 
     - freiksenet@gmail.com 
     - floppyscratcher@googlemail.com 
     - david.salter@reuters.com 
     - kenneth_harte@yahoo.co.uk 
     - gdaluz@netcabo.pt 
     - dvanm@xs4all.nl 
     - jvtalbert@gmail.com 
     - heinrich.himmelwasser@gmail.com 
     - davevosh@aol.com 
     - martin@teknofon.com 
     - listekutusu@gmail.com 
     - goldenechos@hotmail.com 
     - tobias.vasen@yahoo.de 
     - herw@mac.com 
     - thebadproducer@yahoo.co.uk 
     - nadeer93@yahoo.com 
     - laurentv@free.fr 
     - djsoysos@yahoo.com 
     - heinz.blasnik@aon.at 
     - mss_panzer@yahoo.com 
     - synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com 
     - the_ersatz_planet@mac.com 
     - dkimcg@gmail.com 
     - sdelisle@sympatico.ca 
     - d@attacksustain.com 
     - Leftbrain@sbcglobal.net 
     - sxa@whiterabbitdesign.co.uk 
     - modularplanner@yahoo.co.uk 
     - paytonda@yahoo.com 
     - davemodu@yahoo.com 
     - synaptic_music@yahoo.com 
     - ChidrA_100@iinet.net.au 
     - gothicpunk82@yahoo.com 
- no 
     - adam-v@spiralsect.com 
     - jari.jokinen@netikka.fi 
     - bushwick@gmail.com 
     - sean@artifactrecords.com 
     - murphybrandon87@yahoo.com 
     - omegaattraktor@namshub.ch 
     - volger@lebenspuls.de 
     - criticalmonkey@prodigy.net 
     - drewmcdowall@gmail.com 
     - dougc356@yahoo.com 
     - haven1@gmail.com 
     - mister.dys@gmail.com 
     - grimshaw@stugrimshaw.com 


For more information about this group, please visit 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100 

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html

> POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal
> - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some
> memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators, dynamics...
>
> CHOICES AND RESULTS
> - yes, 33 votes, 71.74%
> - no, 13 votes, 28.26%

This module is in the prototype state (a DSP based version). Christian is
about to write the firmware that converts the CV data into information that
can be sent to the DSP module (like delay time, resonance). For details
please look at the A-187-1 preliminary. We will show the module in
Frankfurt. I hope we will be able to record some sound examples next week.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

that c'est veramente muy WUNDERBAR !!!!

gaspar





--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

>
> > POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal
> > - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some
> > memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators, dynamics...
> >
> > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > - yes, 33 votes, 71.74%
> > - no, 13 votes, 28.26%
> 
> This module is in the prototype state (a DSP based version). Christian is
> about to write the firmware that converts the CV data into information that
> can be sent to the DSP module (like delay time, resonance). For details
> please look at the A-187-1 preliminary. We will show the module in
> Frankfurt. I hope we will be able to record some sound examples next week.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already online.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von gasp_uleg
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. März 2009 00:19
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Poll results for Doepfer_a100
>
>
> that c'est veramente muy WUNDERBAR !!!!
>
> gaspar
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:
> >
> > > POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal
> > > - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some
> > > memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators, dynamics...
> > >
> > > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > > - yes, 33 votes, 71.74%
> > > - no, 13 votes, 28.26%
> >
> > This module is in the prototype state (a DSP based version).
> Christian is
> > about to write the firmware that converts the CV data into
> information that
> > can be sent to the DSP module (like delay time, resonance). For details
> > please look at the A-187-1 preliminary. We will show the module in
> > Frankfurt. I hope we will be able to record some sound examples
> next week.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

This is an extremely wonderful module.

I am neither 100% Analogue or 100% Digital so Nothing beats a hybrid  
module :)

Let alone a CV DSP :D

Sounds like fun so far :)


Just out of curiosity, would having two DSP chips in one module to be  
able to run two assignable effects at once ever be plausible or would  
costs blow out and just easier to have x2 the same module?

*Just a quick random query...



On 05/03/2009, at 6:14 PM, Florian Anwander wrote:

> Hi Dieter
>
> > The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already  
> online.
> Wow, that sounds very promising!
>
> Florian
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Dieter

> The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already online.
Wow, that sounds very promising!

Florian

Hi Chidra

> Just out of curiosity, would having two DSP chips in one module to be  
> able to run two assignable effects at once ever be plausible or would  
> costs blow out and just easier to have x2 the same module?
hmm, does this make sense? Different effects have different 
CV-to-parameter relations. If you would combine two DSPs in one module 
hardware, then you alway would relate two parameters - whether it makes 
sense or not.

I am quite sure, that I will be in need of two of them.

Florian

> Just out of curiosity, would having two DSP chips in one module to be
> able to run two assignable effects at once ever be plausible or would
> costs blow out and just easier to have x2 the same module?

That's the same as two modules because you probably also want different
controls for the parameters of the two effects.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

hmm, i sat back and thought (and cringed) about that remark after  
already posting it... I wish there was an "un-send" button...

The excitement turned my brain off... I wasn't thinking clearly (a  
little embarrassed.)

Lets forget i posted that :)




On 05/03/2009, at 6:43 PM, <yahoo@doepfer.de> <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

> > Just out of curiosity, would having two DSP chips in one module to  
> be
> > able to run two assignable effects at once ever be plausible or  
> would
> > costs blow out and just easier to have x2 the same module?
>
> That's the same as two modules because you probably also want  
> different
> controls for the parameters of the two effects.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What's the bitdepth and samplerate for this module?
Also, what parameter changes for what algorithms reset the present  
calculation, causing artifacts?


On Mar 5, 2009, at 00:19:11, gasp_uleg wrote:

> that c'est veramente muy WUNDERBAR !!!!
>
> gaspar
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:
> >
> > > POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal
> > > - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some
> > > memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators,  
> dynamics...
> > >
> > > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > > - yes, 33 votes, 71.74%
> > > - no, 13 votes, 28.26%
> >
> > This module is in the prototype state (a DSP based version).  
> Christian is
> > about to write the firmware that converts the CV data into  
> information that
> > can be sent to the DSP module (like delay time, resonance). For  
> details
> > please look at the A-187-1 preliminary. We will show the module in
> > Frankfurt. I hope we will be able to record some sound examples  
> next week.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> What's the bitdepth and samplerate for this module?

24 bit, 32kHz

> Also, what parameter changes for what algorithms reset the present
> calculation, causing artifacts?

We will add this information as soon as we know these details. So far we
detected the artifacts when the delay time is reduced.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

sounds fantastic!

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

[Doepfer_a100] group owner

www. parallel - worlds - music. com

www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

www. DiN. org. uk

www. musicamaximamagnetica. com

www. shimarecords. co. uk

www. rubberrecords. gr

Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 3/5/09, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Poll results for Doepfer_a100
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 10:57 AM











    
            The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already online.



Best wishes

Dieter Doepfer



> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht--- --

> Von: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com]Im Auftrag von gasp_uleg

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. März 2009 00:19

> An: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Poll results for Doepfer_a100

>

>

> that c'est veramente muy WUNDERBAR !!!!

>

> gaspar

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

> >

> > > POLL QUESTION: VC DIGITAL MULTI EFFECTS PROCESSOR module proposal

> > > - with several CV inputs to control parameters of a DSP and some

> > > memory for reverbs, delays, resonators, amp simulators, dynamics...

> > >

> > > CHOICES AND RESULTS

> > > - yes, 33 votes, 71.74%

> > > - no, 13 votes, 28.26%

> >

> > This module is in the prototype state (a DSP based version).

> Christian is

> > about to write the firmware that converts the CV data into

> information that

> > can be sent to the DSP module (like delay time, resonance). For details

> > please look at the A-187-1 preliminary. We will show the module in

> > Frankfurt. I hope we will be able to record some sound examples

> next week.

> >

> > Best wishes

> > Dieter Doepfer

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> sounds fantastic!

A new reverb example has been added a few minutes ago.

Dieter

My gosh, this really sounds wonderful!  Can't wait for it's release.

John

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:57 AM,  <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:
> The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already online.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>>

I don't see a wet/dry control, does this mean the output is 100% wet,
or that there is a fixed ratio of wet/dry signal at the output?

-Brandon

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:57 AM,  <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:
> The first few audio examples of the A-187-1 DSP module are already online.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer

> I don't see a wet/dry control, does this mean the output is 100% wet,
> or that there is a fixed ratio of wet/dry signal at the output?

It depends upon which parameters are controlled via CV. For some effects
there are more than 3 parameters available and the dry/wet control is not
used in all effects. We took over the nomenclature of the DSP board which is
sometimes a bit unusual. E.g. in some presets the parameter named "Volume"
or "Level" or "Signal Balance" is nothing but a dry/wet control (but in
others it's only the effect level). We will have to straighten the default
nomenclature of the DSP board and use consistent names for the functions. We
did not yet fully understand all parameters because the DSP board does not
include a detailed explanation of the effects and parameters but only the
names (like the table on our website). E.g. we don't fully understand the
differences between the parameters delay, time or echo in some effects.
Other parameters even work in the opposite way as expected or the range is a
bit uncommon (nearly no effect in the first 80% of the data range and then a
very strong change in the last 20%). We will have to compensate all that in
the firmware of the A-187-1.

We could reserve e.g. parameter #1 in general for dry/wet control (if
available for the effect in question) and the remaining 3 for other effect
parameters.

We are still in the beginning of the assignment of the four CVs to effect
parameters and I'm sure that there will be still some changes. For example
preset 1 = bypass does not really make sense. And we will try to add also
some compressor/limiter and equalizer presets.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Dieter Doepfer wrote:

> So far we detected the artifacts when the delay time is reduced.

I also noticed this - will it be fixed?

rgds

Pierre

> .
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > So far we detected the artifacts when the delay time is reduced.
>
> I also noticed this - will it be fixed?

I don't think so because we have no influence to the signal processing of
the DSP board. We contacted the manufacturer of the DSP board if there is
any chance to modify the firmware of the DSP board but so far we got no
response (maybe we are peanuts for them with our planned small quantities).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Ok, thanks Dieter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello

there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
as Doepfer started with with tkb
I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
than keyboard like device

may be there is more interest around
with device simpler a bit that serge one
with for example 8 touch sensors

anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
about different cv values and variations

Bugbrand has something already released

anybody needs that?

thanks
best
r



www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz

Yes, please.

_g



>
>
> hello
>
> there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
> as Doepfer started with with tkb
> I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
> than keyboard like device
>
> may be there is more interest around
> with device simpler a bit that serge one
> with for example 8 touch sensors
>
> anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
> about different cv values and variations
>
> Bugbrand has something already released
>
> anybody needs that?
>
> thanks
> best
> r
>
> www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes. i have never used the serge, but i would like a touch keyboard like the buchla 217. that thing is awesome; seventeen keys plus four more keys each with a set chromatic voltaqe output and a variable voltage output, pressure sensitive, two proportional controllers. really fast response. plus i really dig the layout.

http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/217-keyboard.html


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, robert piotrowicz <rwert@...> wrote:

>
> hello
> 
> there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
> as Doepfer started with with tkb
> I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
> than keyboard like device
> 
> may be there is more interest around
> with device simpler a bit that serge one
> with for example 8 touch sensors
> 
> anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
> about different cv values and variations
> 
> Bugbrand has something already released
> 
> anybody needs that?
> 
> thanks
> best
> r
> 
> 
> 
> www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
>

Maybe you guys are talking about something like this?

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2441760_ih9ut/motiv1.jpg

it can also work as sequencer if clocked 

FYI I "bought" this one off module from "I think you can work that out" aka Peter Grenader of Plan B after he advertised it on this list over a couple of months ago. Unfortunately he never sent it and hasn't refunded the money or replied to emails for 2 months. You have been warned.

I wouldn't normally post such information here but as the item was advertised and purchased via here originally it seems relevant to do so.

(and if you are reading this Peter, please just send the module.) 

Richard

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sean Hart 
  To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:36 PM
  Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: tks





  yes. i have never used the serge, but i would like a touch keyboard like the buchla 217. that thing is awesome; seventeen keys plus four more keys each with a set chromatic voltaqe output and a variable voltage output, pressure sensitive, two proportional controllers. really fast response. plus i really dig the layout.

  http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/217-keyboard.html

  --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, robert piotrowicz <rwert@...> wrote:
  >
  > hello
  > 
  > there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
  > as Doepfer started with with tkb
  > I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
  > than keyboard like device
  > 
  > may be there is more interest around
  > with device simpler a bit that serge one
  > with for example 8 touch sensors
  > 
  > anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
  > about different cv values and variations
  > 
  > Bugbrand has something already released
  > 
  > anybody needs that?
  > 
  > thanks
  > best
  > r
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
  >



  

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have just uploaded the schematics of the Serge touch keyboard that  
was published in the Synapse magazine in early 1977. There are two  
pages. Page one is the main keyboard sensor circuit and page 2 is the  
pot "programmer" section. The circuit seems pretty easy with no non- 
standard parts. It looks like the Bugboard fokes used this as a  
starting point for their unit. The files are in the photo section in  
an album called Serge touch keyboard.
-James

On Apr 16, 2009, at 12:04 PM, robert piotrowicz wrote:

>
>
> hello
>
> there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
> as Doepfer started with with tkb
> I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
> than keyboard like device
>
> may be there is more interest around
> with device simpler a bit that serge one
> with for example 8 touch sensors
>
> anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
> about different cv values and variations
>
> Bugbrand has something already released
>
> anybody needs that?
>
> thanks
> best
> r
>
> www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just looked and saw that the photos that get posted seem to be made  
smaller by the time they are posted. If anyone wants the full sized  
versions, ping me and I will send the full sized versions to them (or  
tell me how to post full sized pics on the group site).
These and more can be found on the Cyndustries website - http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/intro.cfm 
  - thats where I got them Jan/Feb and March/April 77 issues.

-James

On Apr 18, 2009, at 2:23 PM, james.husted@mac.com wrote:

>
>
> I have just uploaded the schematics of the Serge touch keyboard that
> was published in the Synapse magazine in early 1977. There are two
> pages. Page one is the main keyboard sensor circuit and page 2 is the
> pot "programmer" section. The circuit seems pretty easy with no non-
> standard parts. It looks like the Bugboard fokes used this as a
> starting point for their unit. The files are in the photo section in
> an album called Serge touch keyboard.
> -James
>
> On Apr 16, 2009, at 12:04 PM, robert piotrowicz wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > hello
> >
> > there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
> > as Doepfer started with with tkb
> > I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
> > than keyboard like device
> >
> > may be there is more interest around
> > with device simpler a bit that serge one
> > with for example 8 touch sensors
> >
> > anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
> > about different cv values and variations
> >
> > Bugbrand has something already released
> >
> > anybody needs that?
> >
> > thanks
> > best
> > r
> >
> > www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

James,

The full-size images are available as well.
If you look carefully, there's a "View: Medium | Large | Original" link
at the top left (right under where it says "Photo Albums").

I know, because I was puzzled too at first ;-)

_Guy

>
>
> Just looked and saw that the photos that get posted seem to be made
> smaller by the time they are posted. If anyone wants the full sized
> versions, ping me and I will send the full sized versions to them (or
> tell me how to post full sized pics on the group site).
> These and more can be found on the Cyndustries website - http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/intro.cfm
> - thats where I got them Jan/Feb and March/April 77 issues.
>
> -James
>

Thank you - I hadn't noticed that before. I will have to re-look at a  
few posted there now.
-James

On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Guy Drieghe D. wrote:

>
>
> James,
>
> The full-size images are available as well.
> If you look carefully, there's a "View: Medium | Large | Original"  
> link
> at the top left (right under where it says "Photo Albums").
>
> I know, because I was puzzled too at first ;-)
>
> _Guy
>
> >
> >
> > Just looked and saw that the photos that get posted seem to be made
> > smaller by the time they are posted. If anyone wants the full sized
> > versions, ping me and I will send the full sized versions to them  
> (or
> > tell me how to post full sized pics on the group site).
> > These and more can be found on the Cyndustries website - http://www.cyndustries.com/synapse/intro.cfm
> > - thats where I got them Jan/Feb and March/April 77 issues.
> >
> > -James
> >
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anyone interested to pick up on this as a group DIY project ?

Offlist, please.


_Guy

>
> I have just uploaded the schematics of the Serge touch keyboard that
> was published in the Synapse magazine in early 1977. There are two
> pages. Page one is the main keyboard sensor circuit and page 2 is the
> pot "programmer" section. The circuit seems pretty easy with no non-
> standard parts. It looks like the Bugboard fokes used this as a
> starting point for their unit. The files are in the photo section in
> an album called Serge touch keyboard.
> -James
>
> On Apr 16, 2009, at 12:04 PM, robert piotrowicz wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > hello
> >
> > there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
> > as Doepfer started with with tkb
> > I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
> > than keyboard like device
> >
> > may be there is more interest around
> > with device simpler a bit that serge one
> > with for example 8 touch sensors
> >
> > anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
> > about different cv values and variations
> >
> > Bugbrand has something already released
> >
> > anybody needs that?
> >
> > thanks
> > best
> > r
> >
> > www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
> >
> >
> >
>

Hello Guy,

If you have no takers yet then I would be interested in looking in to this.

Best Regards

(Mr) Laurie Biddulph
Phone: +61 (0)2 4340 0938
Mobile: 0400 257 645

Elby Designs
ABN: 70 022 727 605
http://www.elby-designs.com

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----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Guy Drieghe D." <guy@guyd2.com>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] tks


>
> Anyone interested to pick up on this as a group DIY project ?
>
> Offlist, please.
>
>
> _Guy
>
>
>
>>
>> I have just uploaded the schematics of the Serge touch keyboard that
>> was published in the Synapse magazine in early 1977. There are two
>> pages. Page one is the main keyboard sensor circuit and page 2 is the
>> pot "programmer" section. The circuit seems pretty easy with no non-
>> standard parts. It looks like the Bugboard fokes used this as a
>> starting point for their unit. The files are in the photo section in
>> an album called Serge touch keyboard.
>> -James
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2009, at 12:04 PM, robert piotrowicz wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > hello
>> >
>> > there is recent talks on plan b list regarding TKS like device
>> > as Doepfer started with with tkb
>> > I am generaly much closer to serge general desing of TKS
>> > than keyboard like device
>> >
>> > may be there is more interest around
>> > with device simpler a bit that serge one
>> > with for example 8 touch sensors
>> >
>> > anyway most important thing is easy in point swich
>> > about different cv values and variations
>> >
>> > Bugbrand has something already released
>> >
>> > anybody needs that?
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > best
>> > r
>> >
>> > www.myspace.com/robertpiotrowicz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
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