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Re: Dark Time swing output

2014-05-29 by steve mantz

I think Florian's point was the Dark Time is sending individual NOTES to the Dark Energy and MS20, they are reacting to the notes sent, not the clock. It sends a NON-shuffled clock to the MFB.

If you shuffle the clock (let's say on 1/2 notes) how does the receiver interpret this? It'll interpret it as a tempo change - not as 'shuffle' - it has no way of knowing that it's the same tempo with shuffle. What does it do between the 2 different 'tempos'? Smoothly change tempo from one to another? It can't do this until it's receives the next clock pulse. If the incoming clock move smoothly between the 2 'tempos' it'll swing everything, not just the offbeats. How would you shuffle just the 8th notes but not 16ths - can't be done with a simple clock.

cheers

Steve

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Dark Time swing output

2014-05-30 by andy butler

Hope this is interesting and adds to the discusion:-

While some devices do calculate the tempo *and* use it, many do not.

What they do is simply "count clocks" and use that as a time base.

If there were only 2 clocks per beat then swing would work easy enough.
...but trying to sort out the timing for 24 ticks ( or whatever the actual figure is)
to produce a swing in the slave machine 12 of those ticks would have to
be drawn out, and the other 12 sent quicker to compensate.

Generally getting the BPM from midi clock just isn't accurate enough
for syncing.

andy

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On 29/05/2014 22:30, steve mantz mantzster@gmail.com [Doepfer_a100] wrote:
> I think Florian's point was the Dark Time is sending individual NOTES to the Dark Energy and MS20, they are reacting to the notes sent, not the clock. It sends a NON-shuffled clock to the MFB.
> If you shuffle the clock (let's say on 1/2 notes) how does the receiver interpret this? It'll interpret it as a tempo change - not as 'shuffle' - it has no way of knowing that it's the same tempo with shuffle. What does it do between the 2 different 'tempos'? Smoothly change tempo from one to another? It can't do this until it's receives the next clock pulse. If the incoming clock move smoothly between the 2 'tempos' it'll swing everything, not just the offbeats. How would you shuffle just the 8th notes but not 16ths - can't be done with a simple clock.
>
> cheers
>
> Steve

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time swing output

2014-05-30 by Zoë Blade

> While some devices do calculate the tempo *and* use it, many do not.
> 
> What they do is simply "count clocks" and use that as a time base.
> 
> If there were only 2 clocks per beat then swing would work easy enough.
> ...but trying to sort out the timing for 24 ticks ( or whatever the actual figure is)
> to produce a swing in the slave machine 12 of those ticks would have to
> be drawn out, and the other 12 sent quicker to compensate.
> 
> Generally getting the BPM from midi clock just isn't accurate enough
> for syncing.

Right.  So the simpler devices that just count the clock pulses shouldn't really have a problem.  As they're not trying to do anything fancy such as extrapolate a tempo, they're just counting and incrementing and chugging along quite happily, blissfully unaware that the fluctuations in timing might signify swing or a tempo change or anything else.

The only thing I've really done with MIDI clocks and DIN sync clocks in recent years is hook up my partner and I's homebrew step sequencer to an MCV-24.  Our sequencer just counts the clock pulses coming in from the MCV-24, which in turn is translating the MIDI clock signal it gets from Reaper.  I threw in some tempo changes, and it worked perfectly, to my ears.  Counting DIN sync pulses is really quite a neat solution.  It's simple and elegant.

All the best,
Zoë.

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time swing output

2014-05-31 by Jonathan

At the end if the day there are two ways you can transmit info to another synth. If you send the individual notes they will be in the same time as the originating source but if you send clock info the receiver will try to sync to that. So, if you want shuffled notes as they are generated by the source sequencer (or computer or whatever) just send the notes and your output will be shuffled.

Jonathan Shapero
From my iPad Air

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On 30 May 2014, at 10:21, "Zoë Blade zoe@bytenoise.co.uk [Doepfer_a100]" <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>> While some devices do calculate the tempo *and* use it, many do not.
>> 
>> What they do is simply "count clocks" and use that as a time base.
>> 
>> If there were only 2 clocks per beat then swing would work easy enough.
>> ...but trying to sort out the timing for 24 ticks ( or whatever the actual figure is)
>> to produce a swing in the slave machine 12 of those ticks would have to
>> be drawn out, and the other 12 sent quicker to compensate.
>> 
>> Generally getting the BPM from midi clock just isn't accurate enough
>> for syncing.
> 
> Right.  So the simpler devices that just count the clock pulses shouldn't really have a problem.  As they're not trying to do anything fancy such as extrapolate a tempo, they're just counting and incrementing and chugging along quite happily, blissfully unaware that the fluctuations in timing might signify swing or a tempo change or anything else.
> 
> The only thing I've really done with MIDI clocks and DIN sync clocks in recent years is hook up my partner and I's homebrew step sequencer to an MCV-24.  Our sequencer just counts the clock pulses coming in from the MCV-24, which in turn is translating the MIDI clock signal it gets from Reaper.  I threw in some tempo changes, and it worked perfectly, to my ears.  Counting DIN sync pulses is really quite a neat solution.  It's simple and elegant.
> 
> All the best,
> Zoë.
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Zo=EB_Blade?= <zoe@bytenoise.co.uk>
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Dark Time swing output

2014-06-04 by raccoon_boy@yahoo.com

'Just send the notes', well yes this will give me shuffled time, but it will also mean I have to input the notes on a midi device or computer rather than being able to use the hardware's built in buttons etc.

Therefore, I was wondering if there is a way to modify a machine so that

a) the receiver of the clock does not exrapolate (accepting swing)
b) the hits I have set up on my drum machine are triggered by notes sent from a computer; but only for timing rather than note choice.

Dan