Yahoo Groups archive

Doepfer

Index last updated: 2026-04-29 00:15 UTC

Thread

Vactrols revisited

Vactrols revisited

2003-07-21 by ethanzer0

A while back there was some discussion
on vactrol based modules.  I believe
the thoughts were that vactrols in the
audio path are not that sonically exciting.
Looking at buchla schematics I find that
vactrols are used quite often to isolate
the control path from the audio path 
(optoisolator?) I understand the ultra-smooth
response of vactrols make a modules response
to CV something special.  I wonder if the
design folks over at doepfer have considered 
this?

Ethan

Re: Vactrols revisited

2003-07-21 by klamb000

Actually, I think it was said that the Buchla designs weren't as 
sonically pleasing as other designs.

And I also wonder if any vactrol modules are planned for next year.

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" <ethanzer0@y...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> A while back there was some discussion
> on vactrol based modules.  I believe
> the thoughts were that vactrols in the
> audio path are not that sonically exciting.
> Looking at buchla schematics I find that
> vactrols are used quite often to isolate
> the control path from the audio path 
> (optoisolator?) I understand the ultra-smooth
> response of vactrols make a modules response
> to CV something special.  I wonder if the
> design folks over at doepfer have considered 
> this?
> 
> Ethan

Vactrols will save your soul!

2003-07-21 by (i think you can figure that out)

This post might be a tad long.  I am responding to two 
comments regarding vactrols:

A) Has Dieter ever fooled around with vactrols? 

Answer: TRUE (yes)

B) Vactrols are sonically unexciting.  

Answer: FALSE (no!!!!!)

I come from a point of confidence on both these as I have 
discussed this with Dieter and as well I designed the circuit 
modifications for the Cynthia Buchla Low Pass Gate module in 
order to improve the response with non-Buchla voltage 
configurations.  I also have about a billion hours clocked on 
Buchla synthesizers.

Item A explained:

Yes, the Doepfer folks have looked into using vactrols.   Dieter 
has even experimented with making his own.  This in itself ain't 
all that hard, as a vactrol is nothing but an led and a photo 
resistor positioned so the light path is pointing to the business 
end of the photo resistor, and the whole mess potted into a 
plastic enclosure so that ambient light does not effect the 
resistor.  Usually this results in this 'thing' that has two led leads 
sticking out of one end, and the resistor leads out the other.

How a vactrol works is the brighter the light, the lower the 
resistance of the photo resistor.  There are few different types, 
each having it's pwn characteristics: delcay time, on/off 
resistance values, dual or single (some are confiugured as 
pre-wired voltage dividers consisting of two photo sensitive 
resistors in series).

So there's that.

B explained:

OK, I understand that this comment was an opinion and therefor, 
completely acceptable.  But given that everyone is due their own 
opinion, here is mine:

Vactrols are friggin'  wonderful in synthesis applications.

Will they give you the snap response of a non-vactrol circuit 
equivelent?  NO.  Are they the best thing to have in a VCA which 
(most engineers wil tell you) have to be fast to be good?  NO.

In analogy: Is the Wasp filter a good design?  NO.  It's a horrbile 
design by engineering standards, it's a mistake - but that 
mistake sounds good.

Such is the case with Vacs as well, although they were 
intentionally introduced by Don for the purpose of noise isolation.  
Remember, the Buchla signal level is just about line level. In 
order for it to be heard, it has to be turned up like made and this 
is where noise can cause you grief.  

Someone also mentioned they were in a Buch to keep the 
control voltages isolated form the singal path, this is 99.9% true 
in all cases accept (to my knowledge) the envelope detector in 
which the control voltage generated from the external signal is 
not isolated from the signal path electircally.

Remember, not only is the Buchla signals and controls 
separated by two distinct patch cord systems, they run off of 
completely different supply systems and different voltages in 
some cases.  While the signal paths is fed with 15 volts, some 
of the control modules are powered off of 24.

Let take the 292 Low Pass gate as an example.  It is, by nature 
and due to the vactrols, slower than shit.  Most design engineers 
would tell you that this makes for a very bad VCA design which 
are supposed to be fast to be efficient. Due to the vactrol's 
naturally slow decay time (35 MS), and the fact that the main 
mode of operation of a 292 is a low pass filter, vactrols afford a 
unique ringing of the low frequency spectra of a signal which 
provides the percussive phrases with a lot of life.  I will post a 
link by day's end of a comparison of the same signal gated by a 
standard VCA and by a lowpass gate - you'll know what I am 
talking about in a second.

Why is the decay so long in a vactrol?  It's the light.  Turn an led 
on.  Watch it snap to attention.  No turn it off.  Ah-HA - it fades out 
even if the signal going into it cuts instantly.

So no, in my opinion,  the while use of vactrols in analog 
synthesizers provides a marketably different result than 
functionally identical circuits not using them, they are no worse, 
just different and in some cases, that makes for a pleasent 
results.

VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!

Look for a posting with a link to sonic exmaples of the 292 in 
action soon.

best,

Peter






--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "klamb000" 
<lamb@c...> wrote:
> Actually, I think it was said that the Buchla designs weren't as 
> sonically pleasing as other designs.
> 
> And I also wonder if any vactrol modules are planned for next 
year.
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" 
<ethanzer0@y...> 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> wrote:
> > A while back there was some discussion
> > on vactrol based modules.  I believe
> > the thoughts were that vactrols in the
> > audio path are not that sonically exciting.
> > Looking at buchla schematics I find that
> > vactrols are used quite often to isolate
> > the control path from the audio path 
> > (optoisolator?) I understand the ultra-smooth
> > response of vactrols make a modules response
> > to CV something special.  I wonder if the
> > design folks over at doepfer have considered 
> > this?
> > 
> > Ethan

Re: Vactrols will save your soul!

2003-07-21 by klamb000

Yes... what Peter said.

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "(i think you can figure that 
out)" <petergrenader@h...> wrote:
> This post might be a tad long.  I am responding to two 
> comments regarding vactrols:
> 
> A) Has Dieter ever fooled around with vactrols? 
> 
> Answer: TRUE (yes)
> 
> B) Vactrols are sonically unexciting.  
> 
> Answer: FALSE (no!!!!!)
> 
> I come from a point of confidence on both these as I have 
> discussed this with Dieter and as well I designed the circuit 
> modifications for the Cynthia Buchla Low Pass Gate module in 
> order to improve the response with non-Buchla voltage 
> configurations.  I also have about a billion hours clocked on 
> Buchla synthesizers.
> 
> Item A explained:
> 
> Yes, the Doepfer folks have looked into using vactrols.   Dieter 
> has even experimented with making his own.  This in itself ain't 
> all that hard, as a vactrol is nothing but an led and a photo 
> resistor positioned so the light path is pointing to the business 
> end of the photo resistor, and the whole mess potted into a 
> plastic enclosure so that ambient light does not effect the 
> resistor.  Usually this results in this 'thing' that has two led 
leads 
> sticking out of one end, and the resistor leads out the other.
> 
> How a vactrol works is the brighter the light, the lower the 
> resistance of the photo resistor.  There are few different types, 
> each having it's pwn characteristics: delcay time, on/off 
> resistance values, dual or single (some are confiugured as 
> pre-wired voltage dividers consisting of two photo sensitive 
> resistors in series).
> 
> So there's that.
> 
> B explained:
> 
> OK, I understand that this comment was an opinion and therefor, 
> completely acceptable.  But given that everyone is due their own 
> opinion, here is mine:
> 
> Vactrols are friggin'  wonderful in synthesis applications.
> 
> Will they give you the snap response of a non-vactrol circuit 
> equivelent?  NO.  Are they the best thing to have in a VCA which 
> (most engineers wil tell you) have to be fast to be good?  NO.
> 
> In analogy: Is the Wasp filter a good design?  NO.  It's a horrbile 
> design by engineering standards, it's a mistake - but that 
> mistake sounds good.
> 
> Such is the case with Vacs as well, although they were 
> intentionally introduced by Don for the purpose of noise 
isolation.  
> Remember, the Buchla signal level is just about line level. In 
> order for it to be heard, it has to be turned up like made and this 
> is where noise can cause you grief.  
> 
> Someone also mentioned they were in a Buch to keep the 
> control voltages isolated form the singal path, this is 99.9% true 
> in all cases accept (to my knowledge) the envelope detector in 
> which the control voltage generated from the external signal is 
> not isolated from the signal path electircally.
> 
> Remember, not only is the Buchla signals and controls 
> separated by two distinct patch cord systems, they run off of 
> completely different supply systems and different voltages in 
> some cases.  While the signal paths is fed with 15 volts, some 
> of the control modules are powered off of 24.
> 
> Let take the 292 Low Pass gate as an example.  It is, by nature 
> and due to the vactrols, slower than shit.  Most design engineers 
> would tell you that this makes for a very bad VCA design which 
> are supposed to be fast to be efficient. Due to the vactrol's 
> naturally slow decay time (35 MS), and the fact that the main 
> mode of operation of a 292 is a low pass filter, vactrols afford a 
> unique ringing of the low frequency spectra of a signal which 
> provides the percussive phrases with a lot of life.  I will post a 
> link by day's end of a comparison of the same signal gated by a 
> standard VCA and by a lowpass gate - you'll know what I am 
> talking about in a second.
> 
> Why is the decay so long in a vactrol?  It's the light.  Turn an 
led 
> on.  Watch it snap to attention.  No turn it off.  Ah-HA - it fades 
out 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> even if the signal going into it cuts instantly.
> 
> So no, in my opinion,  the while use of vactrols in analog 
> synthesizers provides a marketably different result than 
> functionally identical circuits not using them, they are no worse, 
> just different and in some cases, that makes for a pleasent 
> results.
> 
> VIVA LA DIFFERENCE!
> 
> Look for a posting with a link to sonic exmaples of the 292 in 
> action soon.
> 
> best,
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "klamb000" 
> <lamb@c...> wrote:
> > Actually, I think it was said that the Buchla designs weren't as 
> > sonically pleasing as other designs.
> > 
> > And I also wonder if any vactrol modules are planned for next 
> year.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> > 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" 
> <ethanzer0@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > A while back there was some discussion
> > > on vactrol based modules.  I believe
> > > the thoughts were that vactrols in the
> > > audio path are not that sonically exciting.
> > > Looking at buchla schematics I find that
> > > vactrols are used quite often to isolate
> > > the control path from the audio path 
> > > (optoisolator?) I understand the ultra-smooth
> > > response of vactrols make a modules response
> > > to CV something special.  I wonder if the
> > > design folks over at doepfer have considered 
> > > this?
> > > 
> > > Ethan

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.