Doepfer

You know how, if you (think) you know everything about analog 
synthesis, that when you buy a certain module and having 
oodles of experience with it before, you don't even bother to 
download or read the manual?  And if it comes with one, it's one 
of those "how quaint, a manual for this thing I have 5 million 
flying hours with' kind of deal?

Well, I'm not even sure if this is in the Doepfer A-119 (envelope 
detector) manual, but I found something really really cool to do 
with it.

OK, the patch:

You'll need:  a Doe A-119, a joystick, a way of adding two control 
voltages together, possibly a way of offsetting those so that they 
do NOT go negative.

Set up some sort of repeating event patch - short, percussive in 
nature. A square wave driving a quick envelope gen tha's 
opening a VCA of some sound.  It ashould be a quick pattern 
however.

Configure the joystick so that one axis controls the pitch of the 
sound source.  Set up the other axis to control the frequency of 
the square wave driving the envelope gen.  So, if you move the 
joystick one way, the pitch rises.  Across the other axis, the 
speed of the percussive envelope increases.  

OK, now...also run both the X and Y outputs of the joystick 
through a voltage adder so that you will get some sort of 
combined single voltage out of the joystick in which both X and Y 
location have a say in the matter.  You may need to adjust the 
amplitude of that mixture in that they are, well...added now and 
things might run a bit hot.  Call this voltage Z

Route Z into a Doepfer A-119.  Adjust the Gain to taste (in my 
case this meant full up) and the threshold to about 3. Call this 
new signal Z2

Now, route the the square wave driving the envelope through a 
VCA, with Z2 as the control voltage and you will discover the 
most amazing thing.

What I was expecting was a dynamic output, a second shaping 
envelope if you will of the string and such that both x and y 
movement effected that amplitude. What I got however was an 
highly interactive control source that will turn on and off based on 
movement alone, on either axis..  If the joystick is moving, the 
activity begins.  When it stops, the string stop --> NO MATTER 
WHERE YOU REST THE JOYSTCK.

Very cool.

I still haven't looked at the A-119 manual.

- Peter

> Peter,
> 
> Which output of the A-119 did you use? We´ve got the audio 
out, the 
> envelope out and the gate out.

Yes, it's the gate out - sorry about that.  And fort the record, I don't 
have a Doepfer joystick,  Mine is homebrew and has no 
centering spring.  this is think makes this patch a little more 
interesting.

I"m going to use this routine to generate some phrasing in 
something I'm wiriting - this is about all I've come to on it so far.

P

Peter wrote:

> Route Z into a Doepfer A-119.  Adjust the Gain to taste (in my
> case this meant full up) and the threshold to about 3. Call this
> new signal Z2
>
> Now, route the the square wave driving the envelope through a
> VCA, with Z2 as the control voltage and you will discover the
> most amazing thing.


Peter,

Which output of the A-119 did you use? We´ve got the audio out, the 
envelope out and the gate out.
I suppose you took the gate out because otherwise the position of the 
threshold pot would not influence the patch.
...but I´m not quite sure right now...
My first thought was like: Okay, as soon as the joystick is moved, a 
voltage higher than threshold appears and a gate is being started. But I 
forgot that even when the joystick is kept in one position, there still 
is a voltage produced (except in center position (?)) and the gate of 
the A-119 is still open.  

So what  is going on in this patch??!! Indeed, really strange behavior ;-)

cheers,
Paul

Sebastian,

You've touched upon a bug-a-boo of mine, too.  I imagine a 
software package that allows you to 'draw' a patch like Reaktor's 
set up, and then one could click on each box, which would open 
up the dial settings for that module and possibly a picture file of 
those dial settings and even an audiblle example if one was 
provided. 

this would be very very cool.

P


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Sebastian 
Schnitzenbaumer" <schnitz@m...> wrote:
> Doepfer community!
> 
> it's me again - I've been silent for a while...
> 
> I'm interested in improving one thing:
> 
> Communicating Patches.
> 
> I've been noticing this thread and many other
> threads that go:
> 
> "Take [blah]1 from [foo]2 to [bar]3"
> Reply: "[foo]2 to [bar]3? Are you serious?"
> 
> Apologize for jumping in - I've been thinking
> about this for a while now and think this
> really can be improved with the right software.
> 
> Owning and performing on an A-100 myself,
> its the modules that are the smallest unit in
> the system, so its about how we represent
> doepfer modules. Currently we have
> bitmap / raster images optimized for the Web
> of all modules.
> 
> We need "images that think". An image
> of a Doepfer module should be more than
> a static black box, it should "know" what
> jacks, knobs, etc. are defined for that
> module, so it becomes possible to
> connect / link one jack to another
> between modules programmatically.
> 
> I think SVG is the right thing - Scalable Vector
> Graphics in XML from W3C, an open standard.
> High-level XML patches could be transformed
> via XSLT into SVG. All module "images" would
> be generated on the fly based on context, new
> modules could potentially be "designed" by
> every doepfer owner in a module wish list design
> tool, re-combining SVG vectors for each doepfer
> user interface component to visually
> draw new modules and document patches like
> in a lego system.
> 
> As a first test, me and my colleague Dennis
> took the A 110 VCO module image from the
> doepfer website, imported it in Illustrator 10,
> drew vector shapes around everything
> relevant, exported it as SVG, uploaded it
> to our web server, made it render in both
> Adobe SVG Viewer and thru the Flash 6
> plug-in. Since the module is now an SVG vector
> image defined in standard XML ascii, I can take
> the image from the Web again, open it
> anytime in Illustrator or other vector
> drawing tools, and/or print it at any resolution
> without any loss or blurs...
> 
> The "openness" of SVG has another advantage
> - the module planner could then e.g. become a
> real web app also accessible for non Excel users,
> since generating those XML SVG modules /
> configurations server-side is then possible
> dynamically thru standard middleware (e.g. php),
> and a web form could be used for entering /
> selecting the modules, causing the web app to
> dynamically generate the appropriate SVG
> showing the selected module(s)...
> 
> ... patches could then be expressed, captured
> and communicated a lot better.
> 
> A-110 defined in native SVG XML:
> http://claus.packts.net/deng/examples/svg/modul_vco.svg
> Rendered thru Flash in your browser:
> 
http://claus.packts.net/deng/deng_test.php?f=examples/svg/mod
ul_vco.svg
> takes a couple of seconds to render,
> the SVG could still be optimized and made
> to render a lot faster, this was just our
> first shot - you can zoom in and out
> with the right mouse click.
> 
> Look forward to any feedback...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> - Sebastian
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Schulz" <dasfonk@w...>
> To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Odd (but cool) behavior of 
Doepfer A-119
> 
> 
> > Peter wrote:
> >
> > > Route Z into a Doepfer A-119.  Adjust the Gain to taste (in 
my
> > > case this meant full up) and the threshold to about 3. Call 
this
> > > new signal Z2
> > >
> > > Now, route the the square wave driving the envelope 
through a
> > > VCA, with Z2 as the control voltage and you will discover the
> > > most amazing thing.
> >
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > Which output of the A-119 did you use? We´ve got the audio 
out, the
> > envelope out and the gate out.
> > I suppose you took the gate out because otherwise the 
position of the
> > threshold pot would not influence the patch.
> > ...but I´m not quite sure right now...
> > My first thought was like: Okay, as soon as the joystick is 
moved, a
> > voltage higher than threshold appears and a gate is being 
started. But I
> > forgot that even when the joystick is kept in one position, 
there still
> > is a voltage produced (except in center position (?)) and the 
gate of
> > the A-119 is still open.
> >
> > So what  is going on in this patch??!! Indeed, really strange 
behavior ;-)
> >
> > cheers,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Doepfer community!

it's me again - I've been silent for a while...

I'm interested in improving one thing:

Communicating Patches.

I've been noticing this thread and many other
threads that go:

"Take [blah]1 from [foo]2 to [bar]3"
Reply: "[foo]2 to [bar]3? Are you serious?"

Apologize for jumping in - I've been thinking
about this for a while now and think this
really can be improved with the right software.

Owning and performing on an A-100 myself,
its the modules that are the smallest unit in
the system, so its about how we represent
doepfer modules. Currently we have
bitmap / raster images optimized for the Web
of all modules.

We need "images that think". An image
of a Doepfer module should be more than
a static black box, it should "know" what
jacks, knobs, etc. are defined for that
module, so it becomes possible to
connect / link one jack to another
between modules programmatically.

I think SVG is the right thing - Scalable Vector
Graphics in XML from W3C, an open standard.
High-level XML patches could be transformed
via XSLT into SVG. All module "images" would
be generated on the fly based on context, new
modules could potentially be "designed" by
every doepfer owner in a module wish list design
tool, re-combining SVG vectors for each doepfer
user interface component to visually
draw new modules and document patches like
in a lego system.

As a first test, me and my colleague Dennis
took the A 110 VCO module image from the
doepfer website, imported it in Illustrator 10,
drew vector shapes around everything
relevant, exported it as SVG, uploaded it
to our web server, made it render in both
Adobe SVG Viewer and thru the Flash 6
plug-in. Since the module is now an SVG vector
image defined in standard XML ascii, I can take
the image from the Web again, open it
anytime in Illustrator or other vector
drawing tools, and/or print it at any resolution
without any loss or blurs...

The "openness" of SVG has another advantage
- the module planner could then e.g. become a
real web app also accessible for non Excel users,
since generating those XML SVG modules /
configurations server-side is then possible
dynamically thru standard middleware (e.g. php),
and a web form could be used for entering /
selecting the modules, causing the web app to
dynamically generate the appropriate SVG
showing the selected module(s)...

... patches could then be expressed, captured
and communicated a lot better.

A-110 defined in native SVG XML:
http://claus.packts.net/deng/examples/svg/modul_vco.svg
Rendered thru Flash in your browser:
http://claus.packts.net/deng/deng_test.php?f=examples/svg/modul_vco.svg
takes a couple of seconds to render,
the SVG could still be optimized and made
to render a lot faster, this was just our
first shot - you can zoom in and out
with the right mouse click.

Look forward to any feedback...

Cheers,

- Sebastian

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paul Schulz" <dasfonk@web.de>
To: <Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Odd (but cool) behavior of Doepfer A-119


> Peter wrote:
>
> > Route Z into a Doepfer A-119.  Adjust the Gain to taste (in my
> > case this meant full up) and the threshold to about 3. Call this
> > new signal Z2
> >
> > Now, route the the square wave driving the envelope through a
> > VCA, with Z2 as the control voltage and you will discover the
> > most amazing thing.
>
>
> Peter,
>
> Which output of the A-119 did you use? We´ve got the audio out, the
> envelope out and the gate out.
> I suppose you took the gate out because otherwise the position of the
> threshold pot would not influence the patch.
> ...but I´m not quite sure right now...
> My first thought was like: Okay, as soon as the joystick is moved, a
> voltage higher than threshold appears and a gate is being started. But I
> forgot that even when the joystick is kept in one position, there still
> is a voltage produced (except in center position (?)) and the gate of
> the A-119 is still open.
>
> So what  is going on in this patch??!! Indeed, really strange behavior ;-)
>
> cheers,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Peter,

> What I was expecting was a dynamic output, a second shaping 
> envelope if you will of the string and such that both x and y 
> movement effected that amplitude. What I got however was an 
> highly interactive control source that will turn on and off based 
on 
> movement alone, on either axis..  If the joystick is moving, the 
> activity begins.  When it stops, the string stop --> NO MATTER 
> WHERE YOU REST THE JOYSTCK.

There are a couple of (biggish) capacitors on the 119 input blocking 
DC voltages from getting through. When the joystick is moved 
sufficiently quickly the change in voltage will cause a 'blip' to 
pass through and then trigger the gate signal (depending on the 
threshold setting).

Tim