Doepfer

--- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:
> From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@doepfer.de>
> To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
> Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> hurts module buyers?
> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:17:12 +0100
> 
> please forward ...
> 
> > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: grove@zeta.org.au [mailto:grove@zeta.org.au]
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 05:18
> > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> hurts module buyers?
> >
> >
> > Perhaps the solution is for Doepfer to sell G6
> cases at a bargain price,
> > which would make them more accessible to more
> musicians.  This would
> > mean Doepfer's core business (selling modules)
> would improve markedly.
> 
> Believe it or not: The G3/G6 are the A-100 products
> with the smallest
> profit. When selling the G3/G6 via dealers we earn
> approx. nothing (due to
> the dealers rebate). We make money with the modules,
> not with the frames. I
> know this problem but the  prices for the frames,
> top/bottom covers, rear
> panels, bus boards, power supply and so on do not
> allow smaller prices.
> You may built your own frame by ordering the
> mechanical parts from our
> supplier (ProMa, a link is on our web site) and you
> will see that you come
> to the same price for a G6/G3 or even more.
> 
> > I can't justify the price for an empty G6 case
> with just a buss board
> > and power supply for AUD1000, but if the G6 case
> was like, AUD250,
> > which is a more realistic price for a commodity
> pressed metal
> > box with a basic standard Power supply and buss
> board,
> > I know I would be buying modules every month.
> >
> > As it is, I just shudder at the thought of buying
> an empty box.
> > I know if I paid $1000 for an empty G6, my partner
> would shoot me.
> >
> > I am a big fan of Doepfer modulars.   If Dieter
> sells me a G6 cheap,
> > I'll guarantee that I'll fill it full of his
> modules in a heartbeat.
> > I betcha every person on this list would agree and
> do the same.
> >
> > C'mon Doepfer, give the cases away cheap and your
> modules will
> > sell themselves and walk out the door in their
> hundreds.
> 
> 
> We think about another low cost case made by the
> manufacturer who builts the
> other cases (like Pocket series/MCV4/MSY2/MAQ...).
> But this would be built
> in a much easier way (no aluminium rails, no
> separate side plates and back
> panels, no threaded insert, but a single metal case
> made of 1mm steel with )
> and not compatible with the common 19" standard.
> 
> 
> 


=====
Bakis Siros
Parallel Worlds / Polariton
Athens-Greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.rubber.gr
http://www.ward12.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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The problem is not that the G6 units are overpriced.  It does seem 
like a fair price for what you get ... BUT that's not the problem.  
We all don't want a ferrari.

What dooepfer needs is an alternative.

there are enough people complaining (me included) about the g6 
prices that it's obvious that many people stop adding modules 
because it costs approx $400 for a G6 to add more modules.  it's 
obvious.

in any case, a very good alternative would be what MOTM does.  IE 
sell rack rails that go in a standard rack (I think MOTM sells them 
for $15) .  forget the buss boards & just make a simple power supply 
with wires coming out of it & plugs on the end.  MOTM's is $159.  
Make the power supply support lots of modules so you don't have to 
buy a power supply for every 2 rows.

Blammo - instant cheap, solid mounting.  I don't need a ferrari, i 
just want my modules to go in a standard rack case.

paul






--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros 
<synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:

> 
> --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
> > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
> > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
> > Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> > hurts module buyers?
> > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:17:12 +0100
> > 
> > please forward ...
> > 
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: grove@z... [mailto:grove@z...]
> > > Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 05:18
> > > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> > hurts module buyers?
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps the solution is for Doepfer to sell G6
> > cases at a bargain price,
> > > which would make them more accessible to more
> > musicians.  This would
> > > mean Doepfer's core business (selling modules)
> > would improve markedly.
> > 
> > Believe it or not: The G3/G6 are the A-100 products
> > with the smallest
> > profit. When selling the G3/G6 via dealers we earn
> > approx. nothing (due to
> > the dealers rebate). We make money with the modules,
> > not with the frames. I
> > know this problem but the  prices for the frames,
> > top/bottom covers, rear
> > panels, bus boards, power supply and so on do not
> > allow smaller prices.
> > You may built your own frame by ordering the
> > mechanical parts from our
> > supplier (ProMa, a link is on our web site) and you
> > will see that you come
> > to the same price for a G6/G3 or even more.
> > 
> > > I can't justify the price for an empty G6 case
> > with just a buss board
> > > and power supply for AUD1000, but if the G6 case
> > was like, AUD250,
> > > which is a more realistic price for a commodity
> > pressed metal
> > > box with a basic standard Power supply and buss
> > board,
> > > I know I would be buying modules every month.
> > >
> > > As it is, I just shudder at the thought of buying
> > an empty box.
> > > I know if I paid $1000 for an empty G6, my partner
> > would shoot me.
> > >
> > > I am a big fan of Doepfer modulars.   If Dieter
> > sells me a G6 cheap,
> > > I'll guarantee that I'll fill it full of his
> > modules in a heartbeat.
> > > I betcha every person on this list would agree and
> > do the same.
> > >
> > > C'mon Doepfer, give the cases away cheap and your
> > modules will
> > > sell themselves and walk out the door in their
> > hundreds.
> > 
> > 
> > We think about another low cost case made by the
> > manufacturer who builts the
> > other cases (like Pocket series/MCV4/MSY2/MAQ...).
> > But this would be built
> > in a much easier way (no aluminium rails, no
> > separate side plates and back
> > panels, no threaded insert, but a single metal case
> > made of 1mm steel with )
> > and not compatible with the common 19" standard.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> Bakis Siros
> Parallel Worlds / Polariton
> Athens-Greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.rubber.gr
> http://www.ward12.com
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

I agree completely. The rack rail/self contained PS is the way to go. That is the sticking point that prevents me from buying more Doepfer modules right now, I can't justify that when I can buy a frac rack and power supply for less than $100...and put Blacet/Wiard/whatever in it.
 
- RSA

pwagorn <pwagorn@pinc.com> wrote:



The problem is not that the G6 units are overpriced. It does seem 
like a fair price for what you get ... BUT that's not the problem. 
We all don't want a ferrari.

What dooepfer needs is an alternative.

there are enough people complaining (me included) about the g6 
prices that it's obvious that many people stop adding modules 
because it costs approx $400 for a G6 to add more modules. it's 
obvious.

in any case, a very good alternative would be what MOTM does. IE 
sell rack rails that go in a standard rack (I think MOTM sells them 
for $15) . forget the buss boards & just make a simple power supply 
with wires coming out of it & plugs on the end. MOTM's is $159. 
Make the power supply support lots of modules so you don't have to 
buy a power supply for every 2 rows.

Blammo - instant cheap, solid mounting. I don't need a ferrari, i 
just want my modules to go in a standard rack case.

paul






--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros 
wrote:
> 
> --- Dieter Doepfer wrote:
> > From: "Dieter Doepfer" 
> > To: "Bakis Sirros" 
> > Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> > hurts module buyers?
> > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 16:17:12 +0100
> > 
> > please forward ...
> > 
> > > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: grove@z... [mailto:grove@z...]
> > > Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 05:18
> > > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6
> > hurts module buyers?
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps the solution is for Doepfer to sell G6
> > cases at a bargain price,
> > > which would make them more accessible to more
> > musicians. This would
> > > mean Doepfer's core business (selling modules)
> > would improve markedly.
> > 
> > Believe it or not: The G3/G6 are the A-100 products
> > with the smallest
> > profit. When selling the G3/G6 via dealers we earn
> > approx. nothing (due to
> > the dealers rebate). We make money with the modules,
> > not with the frames. I
> > know this problem but the prices for the frames,
> > top/bottom covers, rear
> > panels, bus boards, power supply and so on do not
> > allow smaller prices.
> > You may built your own frame by ordering the
> > mechanical parts from our
> > supplier (ProMa, a link is on our web site) and you
> > will see that you come
> > to the same price for a G6/G3 or even more.
> > 
> > > I can't justify the price for an empty G6 case
> > with just a buss board
> > > and power supply for AUD1000, but if the G6 case
> > was like, AUD250,
> > > which is a more realistic price for a commodity
> > pressed metal
> > > box with a basic standard Power supply and buss
> > board,
> > > I know I would be buying modules every month.
> > >
> > > As it is, I just shudder at the thought of buying
> > an empty box.
> > > I know if I paid $1000 for an empty G6, my partner
> > would shoot me.
> > >
> > > I am a big fan of Doepfer modulars. If Dieter
> > sells me a G6 cheap,
> > > I'll guarantee that I'll fill it full of his
> > modules in a heartbeat.
> > > I betcha every person on this list would agree and
> > do the same.
> > >
> > > C'mon Doepfer, give the cases away cheap and your
> > modules will
> > > sell themselves and walk out the door in their
> > hundreds.
> > 
> > 
> > We think about another low cost case made by the
> > manufacturer who builts the
> > other cases (like Pocket series/MCV4/MSY2/MAQ...).
> > But this would be built
> > in a much easier way (no aluminium rails, no
> > separate side plates and back
> > panels, no threaded insert, but a single metal case
> > made of 1mm steel with )
> > and not compatible with the common 19" standard.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> Bakis Siros
> Parallel Worlds / Polariton
> Athens-Greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.rubber.gr
> http://www.ward12.com
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus







Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Though I haven't been able to find the exact parts on the schroff site, I
> know a list member made a more complete case using these parts in an SKB
> mixer case. Maybe he could share the part numbers for the various rails,
> racks, and sides?


If youre talking http://www.port23.co.uk/synthdiy/a100/ , then that was me.

As Dieter has said before, if you buy the parts new, then there really isnt a whole load of difference (if any) in cost between
buying all the parts, and buying a pre-built G6.

I escaped that, by buying surplus parts off ebay, and then making them up with new parts where i needed things different to that of
what id bought.  Also remember my cases rely somewhat on the surroundint skb cases for protection also (ie. i didnt bother with tops
/ bottoms)

And then you still need a psu, and the busses etc. too, so you need a solution to them too.

Basicaly, if youre into diy, and want someting specific (as i did) then its possible to make something cheaper, but, of course, itll
be a lot more effort (youll notice i had some of the pannels manipulated by a machineist).  If youre simply wanting to order a flat
pack case, new, from schroff, with all the parts you need, with a view to saving money, i suspect youll be supprised at how much it
all adds up to.

Cheers, Julian

> I'd imagine so, yes, as Dieter said he's not making a profit on them. But
> I meant for the case where someone doesn't need a full box, just the rack
> ears and rails. I think that should be cheaper by buying the parts from a
> company like schroff, since you don't buy the side panels or support
> structure?


I dont know where you are in the world, but here in the uk, farnell, i think, sells schroff parts.  If its not schroff that they do,
its another company making subracks (like, for instance, vero, or rittal)

Even if youre not able to buy from farnell, then you should at least be able to get an idea of cost, all be it in some foreign
currency ; )

Schroff, for example, probably dosnt list prices on their own website.

The bits youll need are, the horizantal rails, the tapped inserts, and somthing to support these rails, normally the side pannels.
I dont know how all the configurations of the schroff racks work - it ^may^ be that you can use only the ears to support the rails,
but dont assume this without checking first.  You may find the sort of situation where the ears attatch to the sides, that in turn
attatch to the horizantal rails.  I dont know - as i say, just make sure.

How are you planning to distribute power?  In some sort of 'star' configuration, direct from the psu?  Remember then that youll
probably have to build custon cables, and hence buy a load of new IEC connectors for them, which alone add cost (yeah, i know, not a
lot, but just add it all up before hand to make sure its actually working out cheaper, if thats your motivation :)

Dont get me wrong - im not trying to put you off at all, im simply warning that there are costs that are not so obvious, that, when
you write them all down and add them all up,  may sway your ideas.



That said though.  A quick look on ebay turns up item number 3878616533.  I dont know if this is good to go, but it has the part
number there.  It has no rack ears, but that may be fine for some people.  And look at the price...

Is there enough of a lip outside the tapped strip?  I dont know, but look at scrhoffs site, and im sure you can find the part number
of that horizantal rail from the main part number.  Then you can find out for sure, etc.etc.etc.  You maybe might find that you can
add some rack ears to those side pannels - im not saying you can, but its all modular (generally), and you just need to look up
those part numbers....

A long post, i know.  Im sure you get what im saying ; )

Julian

RSA said:
>
> I agree completely. The rack rail/self contained PS is the way to go. That
> is the sticking point that prevents me from buying more Doepfer modules
> right now, I can't justify that when I can buy a frac rack and power
> supply for less than $100...and put Blacet/Wiard/whatever in it.

I think you should be able to put something like this together using
Schroff parts and an off-the-shelf linear PS.

http://www.schroff.us/home.asp

Though I haven't been able to find the exact parts on the schroff site, I
know a list member made a more complete case using these parts in an SKB
mixer case. Maybe he could share the part numbers for the various rails,
racks, and sides?

I know that when I put together the final case for the buchfer, I hope to
go this route and sell off any g6s I have in favor of bare rack/rails in a
custom wood case with a third party ps or a doepfer ps ordered as an
accessory.

-Brandon

 _______________________________________
/|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
|| Eat your greens, especially broccoli |
|| And always say "thank you" |||||||||||
|| Especially for broccoli ||||||||||||||
\|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
 ---------------------------------------

Julian said:

> Basicaly, if youre into diy, and want someting specific (as i did) then
> its possible to make something cheaper, but, of course, itll
> be a lot more effort (youll notice i had some of the pannels manipulated
> by a machineist).  If youre simply wanting to order a flat
> pack case, new, from schroff, with all the parts you need, with a view to
> saving money, i suspect youll be supprised at how much it
> all adds up to.

I'd imagine so, yes, as Dieter said he's not making a profit on them. But
I meant for the case where someone doesn't need a full box, just the rack
ears and rails. I think that should be cheaper by buying the parts from a
company like schroff, since you don't buy the side panels or support
structure?

-Brandon

 _______________________________________
/|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\
|| Eat your greens, especially broccoli |
|| And always say "thank you" |||||||||||
|| Especially for broccoli ||||||||||||||
\|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/
 ---------------------------------------

Concerning the discussions about the prices of the A-100 frames this is my
answer:

If desired we could offer all the spare parts (rails with and without
"lips", threaded inserts, side plates, top and bottom covers, screws and so
on). It will take some time to have all parts permanently in stock as we
have to find out the demand (i.e. how many rails, inserts, side plates,
covers ... are ordered per month on average). So far we purchase only
complete frames from our supplier (ProMa).

But I have to point out that if you built e.g. the A-100G6 from these parts
it will be not cheaper than the A-100G6 as a whole. Only if you built your
own frame and use e.g. only the rails to combine them with your own side
plates and top/bottom cover you can save money (look at the A-100 DIY page
for a suggestion). You may even save money if you use normal M3 nuts instead
of the threaded inserts but it will be a bit tricky to move the nuts at the
right positions to assemble the modules.

I'm in the 19" business since many years (even our PMS and VMS systems of
the eighties of the last century were was 19" based). I know all the
manufacturers (Schroff, Knuerr, Fischer, and so on) but from my knowledge
they are much more expensive than our supplier (ProMa). If anyone knows a
cheaper supplier please let me know (I asked several times without response
so far). Especially I'm not familiar with US suppliers. We are permanently
looking for a cheaper solution and found e.g. a manufacturer with better
prices in India. But the shipment charges from India to Germany would eat up
the lower prices.

Another way to save money per U is to built bigger frames - especially
suitcase versions (some may remember the "A-100 monster rack" we will
probably show at the Frankfurt Musikmesse and that can be seen soon in Los
Angeles in the Analogue Haven shop). E.g. one PSUII is normally sufficient
to drive 3 or 4 bus boards resp. 12U ("A-100G12") and you will need only one
(expensive) top/bottom cover, only one power inlet/switch/fuse holder and so
on.

I'm open for all solutions that could save money for the modules frames as I
can remember when I was looking in surplus shops for 19" spare parts to
built my first cases when I still was a student.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

OKW seem to offer some interesting stuff in the US.

http://www.okwenclosures.com/

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...> 
wrote:
> Concerning the discussions about the prices of the A-100 frames 
this is my
> answer:
> 
> If desired we could offer all the spare parts (rails with and 
without
> "lips", threaded inserts, side plates, top and bottom covers, 
screws and so
> on). It will take some time to have all parts permanently in stock 
as we
> have to find out the demand (i.e. how many rails, inserts, side 
plates,
> covers ... are ordered per month on average). So far we purchase 
only
> complete frames from our supplier (ProMa).
> 
> But I have to point out that if you built e.g. the A-100G6 from 
these parts
> it will be not cheaper than the A-100G6 as a whole. Only if you 
built your
> own frame and use e.g. only the rails to combine them with your own 
side
> plates and top/bottom cover you can save money (look at the A-100 
DIY page
> for a suggestion). You may even save money if you use normal M3 
nuts instead
> of the threaded inserts but it will be a bit tricky to move the 
nuts at the
> right positions to assemble the modules.
> 
> I'm in the 19" business since many years (even our PMS and VMS 
systems of
> the eighties of the last century were was 19" based). I know all the
> manufacturers (Schroff, Knuerr, Fischer, and so on) but from my 
knowledge
> they are much more expensive than our supplier (ProMa). If anyone 
knows a
> cheaper supplier please let me know (I asked several times without 
response
> so far). Especially I'm not familiar with US suppliers. We are 
permanently
> looking for a cheaper solution and found e.g. a manufacturer with 
better
> prices in India. But the shipment charges from India to Germany 
would eat up
> the lower prices.
> 
> Another way to save money per U is to built bigger frames - 
especially
> suitcase versions (some may remember the "A-100 monster rack" we 
will
> probably show at the Frankfurt Musikmesse and that can be seen soon 
in Los
> Angeles in the Analogue Haven shop). E.g. one PSUII is normally 
sufficient
> to drive 3 or 4 bus boards resp. 12U ("A-100G12") and you will need 
only one
> (expensive) top/bottom cover, only one power inlet/switch/fuse 
holder and so
> on.
> 
> I'm open for all solutions that could save money for the modules 
frames as I
> can remember when I was looking in surplus shops for 19" spare 
parts to

> built my first cases when I still was a student.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@p...> wrote:
> > Ie no enclosure, just rack rails like MOTM  that take regular rack screws.
> A power supply with a bunch of wires with the proper connectors coming out
> of it.  That's it.  I can't see how that could cost more than $150-200 or
> so. 

i'd definately buy this thing, would make building your own cabinet a lot easier/cheaper

I think the point has been missed here.   The object is NOT to re-create the
doepfer rack system.  Doepfer's price *is* fair.  I am suggesting a cheaper
solution.

 

Ie no enclosure, just rack rails like MOTM  that take regular rack screws.
A power supply with a bunch of wires with the proper connectors coming out
of it.  That's it.  I can't see how that could cost more than $150-200 or
so. 

 

Nobody wants to buy all the parts separately to build an exact re-creation
of what doepfer already has..We don't want covers, sides, buss boards, etc/

paul

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: Dieter Doepfer [mailto:hardware@doepfer.de] 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:50 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?

 

Concerning the discussions about the prices of the A-100 frames this is my
answer:

If desired we could offer all the spare parts (rails with and without
"lips", threaded inserts, side plates, top and bottom covers, screws and so
on). It will take some time to have all parts permanently in stock as we
have to find out the demand (i.e. how many rails, inserts, side plates,
covers ... are ordered per month on average). So far we purchase only
complete frames from our supplier (ProMa).

But I have to point out that if you built e.g. the A-100G6 from these parts
it will be not cheaper than the A-100G6 as a whole. Only if you built your
own frame and use e.g. only the rails to combine them with your own side
plates and top/bottom cover you can save money (look at the A-100 DIY page
for a suggestion). You may even save money if you use normal M3 nuts instead
of the threaded inserts but it will be a bit tricky to move the nuts at the
right positions to assemble the modules.

I'm in the 19" business since many years (even our PMS and VMS systems of
the eighties of the last century were was 19" based). I know all the
manufacturers (Schroff, Knuerr, Fischer, and so on) but from my knowledge
they are much more expensive than our supplier (ProMa). If anyone knows a
cheaper supplier please let me know (I asked several times without response
so far). Especially I'm not familiar with US suppliers. We are permanently
looking for a cheaper solution and found e.g. a manufacturer with better
prices in India. But the shipment charges from India to Germany would eat up
the lower prices.

Another way to save money per U is to built bigger frames - especially
suitcase versions (some may remember the "A-100 monster rack" we will
probably show at the Frankfurt Musikmesse and that can be seen soon in Los
Angeles in the Analogue Haven shop). E.g. one PSUII is normally sufficient
to drive 3 or 4 bus boards resp. 12U ("A-100G12") and you will need only one
(expensive) top/bottom cover, only one power inlet/switch/fuse holder and so
on.

I'm open for all solutions that could save money for the modules frames as I
can remember when I was looking in surplus shops for 19" spare parts to
built my first cases when I still was a student.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know what all the fuss is about - I have a big system with 
nearly a hundred modules - there's not a single metal mounting strip, 
nor nut & bolt in the whole system. They are mounted direct to thin 
but broad horizontal softwood dividers with small philips wood screws.
The power suppliers (five of them) are all mounted on a hinged panel 
behind and it can be swung open like a door for access.


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@p...> 
wrote:
> "Dieter's responsibility"..?   What is that supposed to mean? It's 
not his
> responsibility to do anything.  I'm not saying it's his moral 
obligation to
> do this.
> 
>  
> 
> If you've been reading this thread all (which by your comments I 
guess that
> you have not), the point was that we would likely buy more modules 
(which is
> his core $) if there were cheaper means to mount them.
> 
>  
> 
> Also, if you've been reading the thread, the proposal was FOR a 
cheaper
> options, namely mounting rails.
> 
>  
> 
> I'm not asking doepfer for a FAVOUR, it's suggestion to be able to :
> 
> 1.	make his customers happy 
> 2.	give him the ability to focus on selling more modules
> 3.	allow his customers to put the $ into more modules instead of 
a $350
> box to mount them (INTO ANOTHER BOX I might add)
> 
>  
> 
> it make business sense, especially he makes almost no money on the 
G6's.
> The most basic business strategy is to put your efforts into what 
gives you
> the highest margin. Business 101 rule #1.    This idea accomplishes 
that,
> PLUS allows him to sell more modules.
> 
>  
> 
> If you made 20% margin on one thing (G6's) and 40% margin on another
> (modules), which would you rather people buy??
> 
>  
> 
> I'm sure this is a question dieter gets REALLY tired of 
answering "why are
> you G6's so much, is there a cheaper way??".  DEAL with it.  Give 
your
> customers what they want, ESPECIALLY if you can make more money at 
it.
> Basic business 101 rule #2.  
> 
>  
> 
> In any case, if this isn't obvious, I give up :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Rob Hoffman [mailto:robmix@e...] 
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:38 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module 
buyers?
> 
>  
> 
> I don't know that it's Dieter's responsibility to offer an ultra 
cheap 
> rack. His rack is competitively priced with Analogue Systems. If 
you're 
> into DIY check out http://www.vectorelect.com/    in the USA. I 
think 
> you'll find that there really aren't many cheap options for this 
form 
> factor.
> 
> On a side note I have found that some of my Doefper modules fit 
into a 
> Blacet rack.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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I don't know that it's Dieter's responsibility to offer an ultra cheap 
rack. His rack is competitively priced with Analogue Systems. If you're 
into DIY check out http://www.vectorelect.com/    in the USA. I think 
you'll find that there really aren't many cheap options for this form 
factor.

On a side note I have found that some of my Doefper modules fit into a 
Blacet rack.

Rob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Dieter's responsibility"..?   What is that supposed to mean? It's not his
responsibility to do anything.  I'm not saying it's his moral obligation to
do this.

 

If you've been reading this thread all (which by your comments I guess that
you have not), the point was that we would likely buy more modules (which is
his core $) if there were cheaper means to mount them.

 

Also, if you've been reading the thread, the proposal was FOR a cheaper
options, namely mounting rails.

 

I'm not asking doepfer for a FAVOUR, it's suggestion to be able to :

1.	make his customers happy 
2.	give him the ability to focus on selling more modules
3.	allow his customers to put the $ into more modules instead of a $350
box to mount them (INTO ANOTHER BOX I might add)

 

it make business sense, especially he makes almost no money on the G6's.
The most basic business strategy is to put your efforts into what gives you
the highest margin. Business 101 rule #1.    This idea accomplishes that,
PLUS allows him to sell more modules.

 

If you made 20% margin on one thing (G6's) and 40% margin on another
(modules), which would you rather people buy??

 

I'm sure this is a question dieter gets REALLY tired of answering "why are
you G6's so much, is there a cheaper way??".  DEAL with it.  Give your
customers what they want, ESPECIALLY if you can make more money at it.
Basic business 101 rule #2.  

 

In any case, if this isn't obvious, I give up :-)

 

Paul

 

 

  _____  

From: Rob Hoffman [mailto:robmix@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:38 PM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?

 

I don't know that it's Dieter's responsibility to offer an ultra cheap 
rack. His rack is competitively priced with Analogue Systems. If you're 
into DIY check out http://www.vectorelect.com/    in the USA. I think 
you'll find that there really aren't many cheap options for this form 
factor.

On a side note I have found that some of my Doefper modules fit into a 
Blacet rack.

Rob


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Take it easy there, no need to get your panties in a bunch and take it  
personal. I have read the whole thread and several others just like it  
over the years. If you read my post I pointed you to a company that  
offers several racking options at many different price levels. Take a  
look at Peter Grenader's system, he's managed to populate a very large  
modular without buying a G6. The point is alternatives are out there so  
maybe Dieter can worry about new modules and not about providing cheap  
racks that don't fit his design scheme.

Rob



On Friday, March 4, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Paul Wagorn wrote:

> "Dieter's responsibility"..?�� What is that supposed to mean? It's not  
> his
> responsibility to do anything.� I'm not saying it's his moral  
> obligation to
> do this.
>
>
>
> If you've been reading this thread all (which by your comments I guess  
> that
> you have not), the point was that we would likely buy more modules  
> (which is
> his core $) if there were cheaper means to mount them.
>
>
>
> Also, if you've been reading the thread, the proposal was FOR a cheaper
> options, namely mounting rails.
>
>
>
> I'm not asking doepfer for a FAVOUR, it's suggestion to be able to :
>
> 1.����� make his customers happy
> 2.����� give him the ability to focus on selling more modules
> 3.����� allow his customers to put the $ into more modules instead of  
> a $350
> box to mount them (INTO ANOTHER BOX I might add)
>
>
>
> it make business sense, especially he makes almost no money on the  
> G6's.
> The most basic business strategy is to put your efforts into what  
> gives you
> the highest margin. Business 101 rule #1.��� This idea accomplishes  
> that,
> PLUS allows him to sell more modules.
>
>
>
> If you made 20% margin on one thing (G6's) and 40% margin on another
> (modules), which would you rather people buy??
>
>
>
> I'm sure this is a question dieter gets REALLY tired of answering "why  
> are
> you G6's so much, is there a cheaper way??".� DEAL with it.� Give your
> customers what they want, ESPECIALLY if you can make more money at it.
> Basic business 101 rule #2.�
>
>
>
> In any case, if this isn't obvious, I give up :-)
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> � _____�
>
> From: Rob Hoffman [mailto:robmix@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:38 PM
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module  
> buyers?
>
>
>
> I don't know that it's Dieter's responsibility to offer an ultra cheap
> rack. His rack is competitively priced with Analogue Systems. If you're
> into DIY check out http://www.vectorelect.com/��� in the USA. I think
> you'll find that there really aren't many cheap options for this form
> factor.
>
> On a side note I have found that some of my Doefper modules fit into a
> Blacet rack.
>
> Rob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> etflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>Take it easy there, no need to get your panties in a bunch and take it  
>personal. I have read the whole thread and several others just like it  

Right.  I'm not going to dignify this with continuing.  I'm officially out
of this thread.

Wow, I offered what I thought was an informative post, I didn't attack 
anyone and now you're getting all upset. It's really not that 
important. Have a nice day.



Rob


On Friday, March 4, 2005, at 01:13 PM, Paul Wagorn wrote:

>
> >Take it easy there, no need to get your panties in a bunch and take 
> it�
> >personal. I have read the whole thread and several others just like 
> it�
>
> Right.� I'm not going to dignify this with continuing.� I'm officially 
> out
> of this thread.
>
>
>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> � 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Doepfer_a100/
> �
> � 	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> �
> � 	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why don't we have a competition to see who can create the sound of 2 synth geeks 
fighting a battle with little plastic swords?  No overdubs allowed.

Regarding this thread, I thought I would add my opinion.

I think based on the very fair and cost effective prices of the Doepfer modules, the racks 
are not proportionally expensive.

TD

Regarding the G6 Cabinet:

Let's face it - the fact that Doepfer offers a shielded housing with
built in psu for their modules like the G6 is a great benefit to all
of us.  You can always go cheaper - but it is great to be able to use
systems in studios with TV sets and other RF broadcasters without
moving the synth around like a Fender Stratocaster - which is typical
of "open backed" modular systems.  

In most music studios nowadays, the modular is the ONLY devise without
an RF-broadcasting microprocessor, so this is a consideration.

If you were to try to fabricate your own shielded case for a MOTM
system, you would very quickly realize that what Doepfer is offering
is very affordable!  

(I fabricated my own case for a Wiard 300 system - I won't even
mention what that cost!)

gchang

> Nobody wants to buy all the parts separately to build an exact re-creation
> of what doepfer already has..We don't want covers, sides, buss
> boards, etc/

That's why I suggested to offer even the spare parts separately (e.g. the
rails that are essential for the system). The (experienced) user could
decide how to built his system.

One additional remark (as mentiond earlier and even if I repeat myself)):
unexperienced users should refrain from wiring the mains voltages! There is
danger to life if a mistake is made.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

>That's why I suggested to offer even the spare parts separately (e.g. the
>rails that are essential for the system). The (experienced) user could
>decide how to built his system.

That's exactly what I was suggesting.  Great idea :)

If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with leads,
that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that the
power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
idea!

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@p...> wrote:
> 
> >That's why I suggested to offer even the spare parts separately (e.g. the
> >rails that are essential for the system). The (experienced) user could
> >decide how to built his system.
> 
> That's exactly what I was suggesting.  Great idea :)
> 
> If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with leads,
> that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that the
> power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
> inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
> idea!

that's exactly what i'd need. i'd like to make my own cabinets and spending my money on 
modules without having to worry about electrocuting myself.

dieter needn't worry about sales, no way i'll spend less on the A_100, i'd spend more as i 
could just buy modules all the time without having to shell out 300 euros for a case.

Hi Paul


> If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with leads,
> that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that the
> power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
> inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
> idea!
There is the Mini-Powersupply A-100MNT, which works with a 9V AC wall 
wart. This is the only possibility to offer something, which is NOT 
dangerous.

BTW: If I have a look at the principles of producer responsibility in 
the american law system, I do not understand, how Dieter can think only 
about selling seperate power supplies.

Florian

I can't quite understand this.  Power supplies are sold by many companies in
north America. eg computer power supplies.

Hey are not dangerous.

 

It is only dangerous if you are putting it together by yourself, which is
exactly what I am not suggesting.

 

MANY modular manufacturers do exactly what I am suggesting (I own one that
does).  It's not a legal issue, it is possible, there is no argument here.
It's more the business decision that is under debate here.

 

paul

  _____  

From: Florian Anwander [mailto:Florian.Anwander@consol.de] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:10 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?

 

Hi Paul


> If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with
leads,
> that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that
the
> power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
> inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
> idea!
There is the Mini-Powersupply A-100MNT, which works with a 9V AC wall 
wart. This is the only possibility to offer something, which is NOT 
dangerous.

BTW: If I have a look at the principles of producer responsibility in 
the american law system, I do not understand, how Dieter can think only 
about selling seperate power supplies.

Florian






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> This would require to built a separate fully closed box with mains inlet,
> switch and fuse for the power supply only to avoid any contact to the pcb
> tracks and wires that are connected to mains voltage. As I'd expect only low
> quantities for such a box the price would be in the same range as the power
> supply.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer

but wouldn't it be quite a bit cheaper than a G3/G6 frame?
i'd find 150 euros a natural price for such a device.

> BTW: If I have a look at the principles of producer responsibility in
> the american law system, I do not understand, how Dieter can think only
> about selling seperate power supplies.

We know this problem. This is why the power supply is declared as a spare
part and why there are so many safety remarks on our web site like "suitable
for qualified personnel only because of electrical safety (dangerous mains
voltage 115V / 230V)". The remarks are boring for specialists but necessary
to put off laymen.

> If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with
leads,
> that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that
the
> power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
> inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
> idea!

This would require to built a separate fully closed box with mains inlet,
switch and fuse for the power supply only to avoid any contact to the pcb
tracks and wires that are connected to mains voltage. As I'd expect only low
quantities for such a box the price would be in the same range as the power
supply.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

The point of all of this would be that people would not need to buy bus
boards, the enclosure, etc.

To add more doepfer modules, one must purchase a G6.  this cost me $550cdn.
To add more MOTM modules, it costs <$200 because they do exactly as what has
been suggested.

My initial point was:  how many people have a full G6 & don't continue
buying more modules because it will cost a *lot* of money to add more
modules?  I'm sure (and we have seen this) that there are quite a few.

A cheaper alternative (such as what we see from other makers), would likely
increase your sales because people wouldn't be stuck with full G6's.  it
would be more reasonable to continue expanding.  This cheaper alternative
could be rack rails & a power supply with leads.

If Dopefer were making lots of $ on the G6's, it would make sense the way it
is, but if Doepfer is selling the G6's at a low margin, then it makes sense
to provide a cheaper alternative.

This model is all around us in other businesses, and when you do the math,
you will see that you will make more money & make clients happier providing
that the design of the new power supply doesn't cost too much in development
(which I simply cannot see).

You need to remember that if people are complaining about it all the time,
then it's hurting your business unless you make a high margin on what they
are complaining about.  If you make almost no money, it's simply a barrier
to profits, customer satisfaction, etc. 

Also please keep in mind that I am not complaining about the price of the g6
itself.  From looking at what is in it, it looks like the price is fair...
but I guarantee that you will sell more modules if you keep the barrier to
mounting more modules lower.

In any case, as I mentioned, this is not a complaint (as many people seem to
think).... it's just me laying out an opinion of what I see on this mailing
list after going through the archives.  The subject comes up a *lot* in many
different forms.

paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Doepfer [mailto:hardware@doepfer.de] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:09 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?


> BTW: If I have a look at the principles of producer responsibility in
> the american law system, I do not understand, how Dieter can think only
> about selling seperate power supplies.

We know this problem. This is why the power supply is declared as a spare
part and why there are so many safety remarks on our web site like "suitable
for qualified personnel only because of electrical safety (dangerous mains
voltage 115V / 230V)". The remarks are boring for specialists but necessary
to put off laymen.

> If a power supply was available that was pre-wired for X modules with
leads,
> that would avoid the problem of it being dangerous.  It seems to me that
the
> power supply seems to be something that keeps coming up on this list....
> inexperienced people trying to figure out how to build one isn't the best
> idea!

This would require to built a separate fully closed box with mains inlet,
switch and fuse for the power supply only to avoid any contact to the pcb
tracks and wires that are connected to mains voltage. As I'd expect only low
quantities for such a box the price would be in the same range as the power
supply.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2005 17:24
> If Dopefer were making lots of $ on the G6's, it would make sense the way
it
> is, but if Doepfer is selling the G6's at a low margin, then it makes
sense
> to provide a cheaper alternative.

If we sell the G3 or G6 via dealers or representatives our margin is less
than 10% as we expect the main profit from the modules sales. If we sell
directly it is a bit more because of the additional dealers rebate.

As suggested we will offer the rails and threaded inserts  from about April
(same as used in the G3/G6, manufacturer ProMa). The prices will be about
Euro 7.00 for the rail, Euro 4.00 for the threaded inserts and Euro 0.20 for
the special screws required for the rails (2 for each rail). The prices are
not yet final but will be in this range. One could save money with M3 nuts
instead of the threaded inserts.

Next week I have an appointment with our case manufacturer (not ProMa but
the manufacturer for our other housings like MAQ16/3, Pocket series, MCV4,
MSY2 and so on). I will ask him if there is a change for cheaper A-100
frames. One idea is to manufacture a simple low cost dual rail from steel
that already includes the M3 threads (2 rows of M3 threads side by side, 84
HP length) and for example M4 or M5 threads at each end. So the additional
threaded inserts could be omitted. A simple G12 frame could be made from 5
of these rails and side/rear/top/bottom plates (e.g. made of wood and added
by the customer). The bus boards and power supply can be mounted directly to
the rear plate (via spacers).

But I'd like to know how many A-100 users are really interested in these
parts (Bakis, how about a poll, e.g. "Would you be interested that Doepfer
offers spare parts to built your own frame").

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Hi all,

Dieter Doepfer wrote:
>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
>>Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2005 17:24
>>If Dopefer were making lots of $ on the G6's, it would make sense the way
> As suggested we will offer the rails and threaded inserts  from about April
> (same as used in the G3/G6, manufacturer ProMa). The prices will be about
> Euro 7.00 for the rail, Euro 4.00 for the threaded inserts and Euro 0.20 for
> the special screws required for the rails (2 for each rail). 
Hmm, even the quite expensive shop "Buerklin" (www.buerklin.com) sells 
these parts for the half of the price:

Rails:
http://www.buerklin.com/gruppen/KapH/H163600.asp?BN=82H350#First
-> Euro 4,80

threaded inserts:
http://www.buerklin.com/gruppen/KapH/H163900.asp?BN=82H460#First
-> Euro 1,94
prices are without german VAT.

Dieter has to put some margin als on these parts, because he has to pay 
the work for ordering, the storage room, and the work for delivering. I 
still don't understand, why you guys don't order this stuff at any shop 
for electronic parts ?! What is all that fuzz around for? I give a bet 
that someone will come in three months and complains, why the single 
rails at Doepfer are that expensive....

> One could save money with M3 nuts instead of the threaded inserts.
Hihihihiii, Dieter should offer only(!) *this* variation. The search for 
the moving nuts in the rail behind the panels would be the correct 
punishment for all, who complain now about prices. (insert a double evil 
grin here)

> Next week I have an appointment with our case manufacturer (not ProMa but
> the manufacturer for our other housings 
Please, ask him about an arp-odyssey-style housing for a two octave 
keyboard and above one row (or optional two rows) of modules.

Florian

It's the power supply....the rails are cheap.   Where is the standard power
supply with all the right connectors to plug into doepfer modules?

I swear I keep repeating myself....

-----Original Message-----
From: Florian Anwander [mailto:Florian.Anwander@consol.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:25 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?


Hi all,

Dieter Doepfer wrote:
>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
>>Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2005 17:24
>>If Dopefer were making lots of $ on the G6's, it would make sense the way
> As suggested we will offer the rails and threaded inserts  from about
April
> (same as used in the G3/G6, manufacturer ProMa). The prices will be about
> Euro 7.00 for the rail, Euro 4.00 for the threaded inserts and Euro 0.20
for
> the special screws required for the rails (2 for each rail). 
Hmm, even the quite expensive shop "Buerklin" (www.buerklin.com) sells 
these parts for the half of the price:

Rails:
http://www.buerklin.com/gruppen/KapH/H163600.asp?BN=82H350#First
-> Euro 4,80

threaded inserts:
http://www.buerklin.com/gruppen/KapH/H163900.asp?BN=82H460#First
-> Euro 1,94
prices are without german VAT.

Dieter has to put some margin als on these parts, because he has to pay 
the work for ordering, the storage room, and the work for delivering. I 
still don't understand, why you guys don't order this stuff at any shop 
for electronic parts ?! What is all that fuzz around for? I give a bet 
that someone will come in three months and complains, why the single 
rails at Doepfer are that expensive....

> One could save money with M3 nuts instead of the threaded inserts.
Hihihihiii, Dieter should offer only(!) *this* variation. The search for 
the moving nuts in the rail behind the panels would be the correct 
punishment for all, who complain now about prices. (insert a double evil 
grin here)

> Next week I have an appointment with our case manufacturer (not ProMa but
> the manufacturer for our other housings 
Please, ask him about an arp-odyssey-style housing for a two octave 
keyboard and above one row (or optional two rows) of modules.

Florian




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Part of my point was that the bus board setup adds unnessessarily to the
cost.  What about a power supply with wires & connectors?  I can't imagine
how it could be more than $150.  That leaves rails, and any old rack case.

The things that are not needed (in my opinion) are:

-The bus boards
-the frames (I don't understand why these are needed for anyone actually)

These add probably $150 to the cost of making a 2-row setup.  All we need o
be able to do is slap rails & a power supply in any standard rack unit &
it'll all work.

/p

-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Doepfer [mailto:hardware@doepfer.de] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:00 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Prohibitive cost of G6 hurts module buyers?


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 8. März 2005 17:24
> If Dopefer were making lots of $ on the G6's, it would make sense the way
it
> is, but if Doepfer is selling the G6's at a low margin, then it makes
sense
> to provide a cheaper alternative.

If we sell the G3 or G6 via dealers or representatives our margin is less
than 10% as we expect the main profit from the modules sales. If we sell
directly it is a bit more because of the additional dealers rebate.

As suggested we will offer the rails and threaded inserts  from about April
(same as used in the G3/G6, manufacturer ProMa). The prices will be about
Euro 7.00 for the rail, Euro 4.00 for the threaded inserts and Euro 0.20 for
the special screws required for the rails (2 for each rail). The prices are
not yet final but will be in this range. One could save money with M3 nuts
instead of the threaded inserts.

Next week I have an appointment with our case manufacturer (not ProMa but
the manufacturer for our other housings like MAQ16/3, Pocket series, MCV4,
MSY2 and so on). I will ask him if there is a change for cheaper A-100
frames. One idea is to manufacture a simple low cost dual rail from steel
that already includes the M3 threads (2 rows of M3 threads side by side, 84
HP length) and for example M4 or M5 threads at each end. So the additional
threaded inserts could be omitted. A simple G12 frame could be made from 5
of these rails and side/rear/top/bottom plates (e.g. made of wood and added
by the customer). The bus boards and power supply can be mounted directly to
the rear plate (via spacers).

But I'd like to know how many A-100 users are really interested in these
parts (Bakis, how about a poll, e.g. "Would you be interested that Doepfer
offers spare parts to built your own frame").

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

What is the reason for the extra space at the top & the bottom in the travel
suitcase (ie the place where it says 'doepfer analogue....'

Is it:
- because there is something in there that needs the extra space?
- because doepfer could only by 14U cases?
- so there would be room to advertise doepfer at the top & bottom?

I find the huge letters a bit ugly (especially since it's repeated at the
top and the bottom), and takes away from the "classiness" of it all.  Is
there a specific physical reason for these, or was it simply a design ?

/p

> What is the reason for the extra space at the top & the bottom in > 
>the travel
> suitcase (ie the place where it says 'doepfer analogue....'

i hope it doesn't affect the quality of your music :)
cheers
t

Hahhaa.  No, the point was that I was wondering if it was something that's
needed, or if it was a design.   Of course how something looks doesn't
affect what comes out of it (other than in an inspirational way), but
obviously how gear looks is important.  Companies spend a lot of time &
money on industrial design.

 

I think it's a valid question.

 

  _____  

From: tomekrakowiak [mailto:traktorman@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases

 


> What is the reason for the extra space at the top & the bottom in > 
>the travel
> suitcase (ie the place where it says 'doepfer analogue....'

i hope it doesn't affect the quality of your music :)
cheers
t








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...> 
wrote:
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@p...]
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 19:30
> > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases
> >
> > Hahhaa.  No, the point was that I was wondering if it was 
something that's
> > needed, or if it was a design. Of course how something looks 
doesn't
> > affect what comes out of it (other than in an inspirational way), 
but
> > obviously how gear looks is important.  Companies spend a lot of 
time &
> > money on industrial design.
> 
> That's our main problem: we spend too many time on the module 
development.
> Probably we should spend more time on the case design and find out 
which
> label in which color and font type and height has to be placed at 
which
> position.


hehehe not really. the sound is more important than the look.
and your modules sound really great  :-)

best wishes

ingo

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 16:36
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] travel cases
>
>
>
> What is the reason for the extra space at the top & the bottom in the
travel
> suitcase (ie the place where it says 'doepfer analogue....'

The case manufacturer needs this area for the rivets required for the
corners resp. ball corners. The rails have to be mounted with the M5 scews
cannot be used for the mounting of the case corners. We would have prefered
a smaller version of the suitcase without the additional top/bottom space
but the manufacturer said that this is not possible.

> I find the huge letters a bit ugly (especially since it's repeated at the
> top and the bottom), and takes away from the "classiness" of it all.  Is
> there a specific physical reason for these, or was it simply a design ?

We covered the brown wood with the black foil (with "A-100 Analog Modular
System" in white letters) as we prefered this compared with the wood. But
you can simply remove the adhesive foil. Many customers ask for Doepfer
stickers and labels. Maybe you can sell them :-)

Dieter Doepfer

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 19:30
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases
>
> Hahhaa.  No, the point was that I was wondering if it was something that's
> needed, or if it was a design. Of course how something looks doesn't
> affect what comes out of it (other than in an inspirational way), but
> obviously how gear looks is important.  Companies spend a lot of time &
> money on industrial design.

That's our main problem: we spend too many time on the module development.
Probably we should spend more time on the case design and find out which
label in which color and font type and height has to be placed at which
position.

Dieter Doepfer

>>
>> Hahhaa.  No, the point was that I was wondering if it was something 
>> that's
>> needed, or if it was a design. Of course how something looks doesn't
>> affect what comes out of it (other than in an inspirational way), but
>> obviously how gear looks is important.  Companies spend a lot of time 
>> &
>> money on industrial design.
>
> That's our main problem: we spend too many time on the module 
> development.
> Probably we should spend more time on the case design and find out 
> which
> label in which color and font type and height has to be placed at which
> position.

hehehe ;) noooo, please, i couldn't care less about stuff like that, 
keep the modules coming.

Aha.  Thanks... that makes sense. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Doepfer [mailto:hardware@doepfer.de] 
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:53 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] travel cases


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 16:36
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] travel cases
>
>
>
> What is the reason for the extra space at the top & the bottom in the
travel
> suitcase (ie the place where it says 'doepfer analogue....'

The case manufacturer needs this area for the rivets required for the
corners resp. ball corners. The rails have to be mounted with the M5 scews
cannot be used for the mounting of the case corners. We would have prefered
a smaller version of the suitcase without the additional top/bottom space
but the manufacturer said that this is not possible.

> I find the huge letters a bit ugly (especially since it's repeated at the
> top and the bottom), and takes away from the "classiness" of it all.  Is
> there a specific physical reason for these, or was it simply a design ?

We covered the brown wood with the black foil (with "A-100 Analog Modular
System" in white letters) as we prefered this compared with the wood. But
you can simply remove the adhesive foil. Many customers ask for Doepfer
stickers and labels. Maybe you can sell them :-)

Dieter Doepfer




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!

I guess it's not ok to wonder these things.  I guess I should keep my mouth
shut & forget about any sort of suggestions or thoughts from now on based on
the responses to my 2 things I've put forward.

Some manufacturers welcome & encourage people caring enough to think about
heir products & provide feedback.  It's healthy & promotes product
development.

It seems as though this list is more geared towards people who want to show
how right they are & chiding people who think differently.  It's really too
bad.

Like I said, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on about these things.
Seems like you all enjoy applauding yourselves... I'll let you get on with
it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dieter Doepfer [mailto:hardware@doepfer.de] 
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:53 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases


> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Paul Wagorn [mailto:pwagorn@pinc.com]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. März 2005 19:30
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases
>
> Hahhaa.  No, the point was that I was wondering if it was something that's
> needed, or if it was a design. Of course how something looks doesn't
> affect what comes out of it (other than in an inspirational way), but
> obviously how gear looks is important.  Companies spend a lot of time &
> money on industrial design.

That's our main problem: we spend too many time on the module development.
Probably we should spend more time on the case design and find out which
label in which color and font type and height has to be placed at which
position.

Dieter Doepfer




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@p...> 
wrote:
> Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!

You reap what you sow.

Could i possibly ask that, if your post is not going to contain some sort of information on the doepfer system, but, instead, simply
serve to prolong what has turned into bickering, then, please, dont post.

My question was completely valid.  

 

  _____  

From: onetwentytwofourty [mailto:complblue@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:18 AM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases

 


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wagorn" <pwagorn@p...> 
wrote:
> Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!

You reap what you sow.








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etflix.com/Default?mqso=60190075> click here


 
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.6018725.7038619.3001176/D=grplch/S=
:HM/A=2593423/rand=564140756> 

 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!
>
> I guess it's not ok to wonder these things.  I guess I should keep my
mouth
> shut & forget about any sort of suggestions or thoughts from now on based
on
> the responses to my 2 things I've put forward.
>
> Some manufacturers welcome & encourage people caring enough to think about
> heir products & provide feedback.  It's healthy & promotes product
development.
>
> It seems as though this list is more geared towards people who want to
show
> how right they are & chiding people who think differently.  It's really
too bad.
>
> Like I said, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on about these
things.
> Seems like you all enjoy applauding yourselves... I'll let you get on with
it.

If you look at the correspondence of this group you will notice that we are
a company who listens to the wishes of the customers and integrates the
users into the development. So I believe that your reproaches are not
justified.

For example in one of my last replies I agreed to offer all the spare parts.
But you can't please everybody.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

As always Dieter - you are right. 
But as you say: you can´t please everyone. - But you do a very good 
job trying.
Keld

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Doepfer" 
<hardware@d...> wrote:
> > Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!
> >
> > I guess it's not ok to wonder these things.  I guess I should 
keep my
> mouth
> > shut & forget about any sort of suggestions or thoughts from now 
on based
> on
> > the responses to my 2 things I've put forward.
> >
> > Some manufacturers welcome & encourage people caring enough to 
think about
> > heir products & provide feedback.  It's healthy & promotes 
product
> development.
> >
> > It seems as though this list is more geared towards people who 
want to
> show
> > how right they are & chiding people who think differently.  It's 
really
> too bad.
> >
> > Like I said, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on about 
these
> things.
> > Seems like you all enjoy applauding yourselves... I'll let you 
get on with
> it.
> 
> If you look at the correspondence of this group you will notice 
that we are
> a company who listens to the wishes of the customers and 
integrates the
> users into the development. So I believe that your reproaches are 
not
> justified.
> 
> For example in one of my last replies I agreed to offer all the 
spare parts.

> But you can't please everybody.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer

Thank you, Dieter, for your professionalism and not being drawn into this
surreal fray.  My Doepfer gear remains my favorite alongside the AS, Blacet,
Solutions, and Synthesizers.com equipment I have.  It's an outstanding
modular system.  Your continual engagement with your customers is one of the
great things about your company. 

--Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Keld Sørensen [mailto:keldsorensen@mail1.stofanet.dk] 
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:01 PM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: travel cases



As always Dieter - you are right. 
But as you say: you can´t please everyone. - But you do a very good 
job trying.
Keld

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Dieter Doepfer" 
<hardware@d...> wrote:
> > Ahhh, another snarky answer.   Surprise, surprise!
> >
> > I guess it's not ok to wonder these things.  I guess I should 
keep my
> mouth
> > shut & forget about any sort of suggestions or thoughts from now 
on based
> on
> > the responses to my 2 things I've put forward.
> >
> > Some manufacturers welcome & encourage people caring enough to 
think about
> > heir products & provide feedback.  It's healthy & promotes 
product
> development.
> >
> > It seems as though this list is more geared towards people who 
want to
> show
> > how right they are & chiding people who think differently.  It's 
really
> too bad.
> >
> > Like I said, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on about 
these
> things.
> > Seems like you all enjoy applauding yourselves... I'll let you 
get on with
> it.
> 
> If you look at the correspondence of this group you will notice 
that we are
> a company who listens to the wishes of the customers and 
integrates the
> users into the development. So I believe that your reproaches are 
not
> justified.
> 
> For example in one of my last replies I agreed to offer all the 
spare parts.
> But you can't please everybody.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer






 
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