Doepfer

To continue my waterfall of posts here today (have not been very active
lately and tried to catch up with the list this afternoon):

I love my A102 filter, it is my favourite filter in my racks.
I was lucky enough to have worked with the original VCS3's from EMS and I
have a question here for the people here with the real big modular
collections..
How does the A102 compare to the Analog Systems EMS filter?
Is it worth to get the Analogue Systems EMS filter or just get a second
A102, which is high on my list..
Maybe some sound examples ;-) ??

Greetings,

Ernst


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i have both a102 and rs500e.
for my ears they sound and react quite different.
maybe i can record some examples during this week,
i'll post the links then.

best wishes

ingo



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999 
<heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:
> To continue my waterfall of posts here today (have not been very 
active
> lately and tried to catch up with the list this afternoon):
> 
> I love my A102 filter, it is my favourite filter in my racks.
> I was lucky enough to have worked with the original VCS3's from EMS 
and I
> have a question here for the people here with the real big modular
> collections..
> How does the A102 compare to the Analog Systems EMS filter?
> Is it worth to get the Analogue Systems EMS filter or just get a 
second

> A102, which is high on my list..
> Maybe some sound examples ;-) ??
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> ------------------------------
>
>
Hi Ingo!
That would be very nice if you could do that..

Thanks.

Ernst


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hello ernst,

i'm not sure if i can do the examples this week.
if not, i'll do some a week later.

best wishes

ingo




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999 
<heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:

> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> Hi Ingo!
> That would be very nice if you could do that..
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Ernst
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Never mind Ingo, I'm really busy too this week..
No hurry..

Greetings,

Ernst

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999 
<heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:
> Never mind Ingo, I'm really busy too this week..
> No hurry..
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Ernst


hello ernst,

unfortunately i'm still unable to record some
ems/diode filter examples. i'm in the middle
of a remix project, actually the modular is
in heavy use  and i cannot remove the patches
until the recordings are finished. sorry.

but maybe i can give a description of the
differences between a102 and rs500e.
both filters are weird in some ways.

the quirks on both filters:
increasing the resonance leads to a massive
level drop of the input signal, the input signal
starts to disappear almost completely. this can
be worked out by increasing the level of the
input signal, but this will also introduce
distortion to the filtered signal.
the resonance is frequency-dependent and the
tracking is bad, both is not good if you want
to use these filters as sine vco's or when
exact key-tracking is required.

thoughts about the a102:
this is one of the most extreme filters.
the input sensitivity is very high and
the filter starts to oscillate with the
resonance knob at 9 o'clock position.
this means that approximately 60 percent of
the knob range is outside the usual limits,
leaving plenty of room for those
supernasty overdriven sounds.
the a102 has lots of bass when the resonance
is set to zero. increasing the resonance 
somehow attenuates the low bass frequencies.
the filter output can be very loud.

thoughts about the rs500e:
the signal input is still sensitive, but not
as extreme as on the a102. the filter starts
to oscillate with the resonance knob at
2 o'clock position. this is much more common
than the knob scaling on the a102.
to my ears the rs500e sounds warmer and rounder
than the a102, and also a bit fatter with more
bass when the resonance is turned up.
on the other hand the rs500e cannot go into
the same extreme territories like the a102.

to some extent both filters share the same
sound characteristics, but they are still
different from each other.
the rs500e offers a sound very similar to
the original ems filter, while the a102
sounds a bit harsher and more aggressive.

it is also important to know about the tolerances
of the diodes. the selection of almost identical
diodes is a horror. you probably have to test a
hundred diodes until you find one really matching
pair of two diodes, and you need more than two for
one filter. the result is that, due to the tolerances
of the diodes, each filter has a slightly different
sound. anyway this is a fact for many other filter
designs too, so it is nothing to worry about.

best wishes

ingo

Thanks Ingo,

This already helped me quite a lot.

I am definately not interested in the really resonant part of these filters.
But I do like the unpredictability of diode filters.
Using filters as VCO's is not really in my book. And using a keyboard
with a modular is rape in my opinion. Sorry, I'm weird like that.

But I still would not mind recordings. ;-)
Remember that I hardly take the resonance past 3 on my A102... I do
mostly have the level fully open though..

Thanks again Ingo,

Ernst

On 10/6/05, selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999
>  <heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:
>  > Never mind Ingo, I'm really busy too this week..
>  > No hurry..
>  >
>  > Greetings,
>  >
>  > Ernst
>
>
>  hello ernst,
>
>  unfortunately i'm still unable to record some
>  ems/diode filter examples. i'm in the middle
>  of a remix project, actually the modular is
>  in heavy use  and i cannot remove the patches
>  until the recordings are finished. sorry.
>
>  but maybe i can give a description of the
>  differences between a102 and rs500e.
>  both filters are weird in some ways.
>
>  the quirks on both filters:
>  increasing the resonance leads to a massive
>  level drop of the input signal, the input signal
>  starts to disappear almost completely. this can
>  be worked out by increasing the level of the
>  input signal, but this will also introduce
>  distortion to the filtered signal.
>  the resonance is frequency-dependent and the
>  tracking is bad, both is not good if you want
>  to use these filters as sine vco's or when
>  exact key-tracking is required.
>
>  thoughts about the a102:
>  this is one of the most extreme filters.
>  the input sensitivity is very high and
>  the filter starts to oscillate with the
>  resonance knob at 9 o'clock position.
>  this means that approximately 60 percent of
>  the knob range is outside the usual limits,
>  leaving plenty of room for those
>  supernasty overdriven sounds.
>  the a102 has lots of bass when the resonance
>  is set to zero. increasing the resonance
>  somehow attenuates the low bass frequencies.
>  the filter output can be very loud.
>
>  thoughts about the rs500e:
>  the signal input is still sensitive, but not
>  as extreme as on the a102. the filter starts
>  to oscillate with the resonance knob at
>  2 o'clock position. this is much more common
>  than the knob scaling on the a102.
>  to my ears the rs500e sounds warmer and rounder
>  than the a102, and also a bit fatter with more
>  bass when the resonance is turned up.
>  on the other hand the rs500e cannot go into
>  the same extreme territories like the a102.
>
>  to some extent both filters share the same
>  sound characteristics, but they are still
>  different from each other.
>  the rs500e offers a sound very similar to
>  the original ems filter, while the a102
>  sounds a bit harsher and more aggressive.
>
>  it is also important to know about the tolerances
>  of the diodes. the selection of almost identical
>  diodes is a horror. you probably have to test a
>  hundred diodes until you find one really matching
>  pair of two diodes, and you need more than two for
>  one filter. the result is that, due to the tolerances
>  of the diodes, each filter has a slightly different
>  sound. anyway this is a fact for many other filter
>  designs too, so it is nothing to worry about.
>
>  best wishes
>
>  ingo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  SPONSORED LINKS
>  A100 Modular system Synthesizer
>  Electronic payment Electronic test equipment Guitar synthesizer
>
>  ________________________________
>  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
>  Visit your group "Doepfer_a100" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  Doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>  ________________________________
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran Bosnjak" <dj_allin@h...> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Ernst,
> 
> let me jump into conversation. I used to own A-102, and resonance 
on it is 
> one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why ? Cause the 
character of 
> the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when changing amount of 
resonance. 
> So it is really not about playing resonance as oscillator, but 
more like 
> "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that it is a pity that 
such a 
> powerful feature does not have CV control of resonance amount, and 
Mr. 
> Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature can be added 
(cause it's 
> nothing but the addition of one VCA to control the amount of 
resonance). 
> However, I do not have the skills to do even something simple like 
that -  I 
> completely depend on manufacturers/third parties when it comes to 
> alteration/maintenance of my modular.


hello zoran,

you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a vca and do
a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer input.
patch the mixer output to the filter input.
patch the filter output to a multiple.
take the signal from the multiple and patch it
into the vca. then patch the vca output to
another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
like increasing the resonance. when using a polarizer
instead of an vca you can overdrive the resonance
or you can invert it.

best wishes

ingo

Ernst,

let me jump into conversation. I used to own A-102, and resonance on it is 
one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why ? Cause the character of 
the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when changing amount of resonance. 
So it is really not about playing resonance as oscillator, but more like 
"timbre modifier". I posted in this group that it is a pity that such a 
powerful feature does not have CV control of resonance amount, and Mr. 
Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature can be added (cause it's 
nothing but the addition of one VCA to control the amount of resonance). 
However, I do not have the skills to do even something simple like that -  I 
completely depend on manufacturers/third parties when it comes to 
alteration/maintenance of my modular.

And about the sound? I think I posted my opinion about that too. I generally 
agree with Ingo in description of A-102 sound (never heard ASys one with 
exception of couple of samples in ASys Yahoo group which really did not 
impress me). I would actually discribe it like this:
- when running it with resonance down to 0, it is mildly pleasant, with no 
hint of harshnes, unless you overdrive the signal
- when you start cranking up the resonance, you enter completely different 
world, and it starts sounding very different. You also get tiny amount of 
harshness, which might be useful or not, depending on application.

I hope this helps. Regards,

Zoran

>From: achtung_999 <heinrich.himmelwasser@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: More EMS talk
>Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 02:22:43 +0200
>
>Thanks Ingo,
>
>This already helped me quite a lot.
>
>I am definately not interested in the really resonant part of these 
>filters.
>But I do like the unpredictability of diode filters.
>Using filters as VCO's is not really in my book. And using a keyboard
>with a modular is rape in my opinion. Sorry, I'm weird like that.
>
>But I still would not mind recordings. ;-)
>Remember that I hardly take the resonance past 3 on my A102... I do
>mostly have the level fully open though..
>
>Thanks again Ingo,
>
>Ernst
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 10/6/05, selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999
> >  <heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:
> >  > Never mind Ingo, I'm really busy too this week..
> >  > No hurry..
> >  >
> >  > Greetings,
> >  >
> >  > Ernst
> >
> >
> >  hello ernst,
> >
> >  unfortunately i'm still unable to record some
> >  ems/diode filter examples. i'm in the middle
> >  of a remix project, actually the modular is
> >  in heavy use  and i cannot remove the patches
> >  until the recordings are finished. sorry.
> >
> >  but maybe i can give a description of the
> >  differences between a102 and rs500e.
> >  both filters are weird in some ways.
> >
> >  the quirks on both filters:
> >  increasing the resonance leads to a massive
> >  level drop of the input signal, the input signal
> >  starts to disappear almost completely. this can
> >  be worked out by increasing the level of the
> >  input signal, but this will also introduce
> >  distortion to the filtered signal.
> >  the resonance is frequency-dependent and the
> >  tracking is bad, both is not good if you want
> >  to use these filters as sine vco's or when
> >  exact key-tracking is required.
> >
> >  thoughts about the a102:
> >  this is one of the most extreme filters.
> >  the input sensitivity is very high and
> >  the filter starts to oscillate with the
> >  resonance knob at 9 o'clock position.
> >  this means that approximately 60 percent of
> >  the knob range is outside the usual limits,
> >  leaving plenty of room for those
> >  supernasty overdriven sounds.
> >  the a102 has lots of bass when the resonance
> >  is set to zero. increasing the resonance
> >  somehow attenuates the low bass frequencies.
> >  the filter output can be very loud.
> >
> >  thoughts about the rs500e:
> >  the signal input is still sensitive, but not
> >  as extreme as on the a102. the filter starts
> >  to oscillate with the resonance knob at
> >  2 o'clock position. this is much more common
> >  than the knob scaling on the a102.
> >  to my ears the rs500e sounds warmer and rounder
> >  than the a102, and also a bit fatter with more
> >  bass when the resonance is turned up.
> >  on the other hand the rs500e cannot go into
> >  the same extreme territories like the a102.
> >
> >  to some extent both filters share the same
> >  sound characteristics, but they are still
> >  different from each other.
> >  the rs500e offers a sound very similar to
> >  the original ems filter, while the a102
> >  sounds a bit harsher and more aggressive.
> >
> >  it is also important to know about the tolerances
> >  of the diodes. the selection of almost identical
> >  diodes is a horror. you probably have to test a
> >  hundred diodes until you find one really matching
> >  pair of two diodes, and you need more than two for
> >  one filter. the result is that, due to the tolerances
> >  of the diodes, each filter has a slightly different
> >  sound. anyway this is a fact for many other filter
> >  designs too, so it is nothing to worry about.
> >
> >  best wishes
> >
> >  ingo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  SPONSORED LINKS
> >  A100 Modular system Synthesizer
> >  Electronic payment Electronic test equipment Guitar synthesizer
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> >
> >  Visit your group "Doepfer_a100" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  Doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 
<synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran Bosnjak" 
<dj_allin@h...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Ernst,
> > 
> > let me jump into conversation. I used to own A-102, and 
resonance 
> on it is 
> > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why ? Cause the 
> character of 
> > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when changing amount of 
> resonance. 
> > So it is really not about playing resonance as oscillator, but 
> more like 
> > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that it is a pity that 
> such a 
> > powerful feature does not have CV control of resonance amount, 
and 
> Mr. 
> > Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature can be added 
> (cause it's 
> > nothing but the addition of one VCA to control the amount of 
> resonance). 
> > However, I do not have the skills to do even something simple 
like 
> that -  I 
> > completely depend on manufacturers/third parties when it comes 
to 
> > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
> 
> 
> hello zoran,
> 
> you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a vca and do
> a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
> patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer input.
> patch the mixer output to the filter input.
> patch the filter output to a multiple.
> take the signal from the multiple and patch it
> into the vca. then patch the vca output to
> another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
> like increasing the resonance. when using a polarizer
> instead of an vca you can overdrive the resonance
> or you can invert it.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo
>

oh and what i have forgotten, in some cases it alters
the sound of a filter when a resonance loop or cv of
resonance is added directly to the circuit. so sometimes
it is not the best option to add all features possible.

best wishes

ingo

So... Is an A-102 worth buying, and is an A-128 fixed filter
bank worth buying ?  These are two modules I don't have in
my system, are they beneficial at all.

Since the A-128 costs UK £106, will  get my money's worth
out of this module.

Cheers
A1k




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 
<synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 
> <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran Bosnjak" 
> <dj_allin@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Ernst,
> > > 
> > > let me jump into conversation. I used to own A-102, and 
> resonance 
> > on it is 
> > > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why ? Cause the 
> > character of 
> > > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when changing amount of 
> > resonance. 
> > > So it is really not about playing resonance as oscillator, but 
> > more like 
> > > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that it is a pity 
that 

> > such a 
> > > powerful feature does not have CV control of resonance amount, 
> and 
> > Mr. 
> > > Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature can be added 
> > (cause it's 
> > > nothing but the addition of one VCA to control the amount of 
> > resonance). 
> > > However, I do not have the skills to do even something simple 
> like 
> > that -  I 
> > > completely depend on manufacturers/third parties when it comes 
> to 
> > > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
> > 
> > 
> <snip>

hello bakis,

you can amplify a signal even with a vca.
for example if you send a cv greater than
+5 volts to the cv inputs of an a132, it will
actually amplify the signal. if you send a cv
of +10 volts to the cv inputs of an a132,
the signal will be amplified by factor 2.

but you are right, it is far better to use
an a133, because it has even more gain.
it is also interesting to invert the
resonance loop with the a133. this can have
very nice effects, depending on the used
filter.

best wishes

ingo




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros 
<synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:

>
> hello, ingo,
> as far as i remember, the feedback loop(resonance)
> that one can make with the modules you
> mentioned(a1870, a138,vca) will sound ok, if you
> replace the vca with the vc polarizer module a133. the
> reason for this is that the resonance loop must have
> an amplification rate of more than 1. so, instead of a
> vca module(a131,a132) one should use a real VC
> amplification module like the a133 which has a gain
> rate of 2,5. dieter coprrect me if i'm wrong though.
> best regards,
> bakis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- selfoscillate <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> 
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
> > 
> > <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran
> > Bosnjak" 
> > <dj_allin@h...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Ernst,
> > > > 
> > > > let me jump into conversation. I used to own
> > A-102, and 
> > resonance 
> > > on it is 
> > > > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why
> > ? Cause the 
> > > character of 
> > > > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when
> > changing amount of 
> > > resonance. 
> > > > So it is really not about playing resonance as
> > oscillator, but 
> > > more like 
> > > > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that
> > it is a pity that 
> > > such a 
> > > > powerful feature does not have CV control of
> > resonance amount, 
> > and 
> > > Mr. 
> > > > Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature
> > can be added 
> > > (cause it's 
> > > > nothing but the addition of one VCA to control
> > the amount of 
> > > resonance). 
> > > > However, I do not have the skills to do even
> > something simple 
> > like 
> > > that -  I 
> > > > completely depend on manufacturers/third parties
> > when it comes 
> > to 
> > > > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > hello zoran,
> > > 
> > > you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a vca
> > and do
> > > a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
> > > patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer input.
> > > patch the mixer output to the filter input.
> > > patch the filter output to a multiple.
> > > take the signal from the multiple and patch it
> > > into the vca. then patch the vca output to
> > > another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
> > > like increasing the resonance. when using a
> > polarizer
> > > instead of an vca you can overdrive the resonance
> > > or you can invert it.
> > > 
> > > best wishes
> > > 
> > > ingo
> > >
> > 
> > oh and what i have forgotten, in some cases it
> > alters
> > the sound of a filter when a resonance loop or cv of
> > resonance is added directly to the circuit. so
> > sometimes
> > it is not the best option to add all features
> > possible.
> > 
> > best wishes
> > 
> > ingo
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Bakis Sirros
> Parallel Worlds
> Athens-Greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber.gr
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

hello, ingo,
as far as i remember, the feedback loop(resonance)
that one can make with the modules you
mentioned(a1870, a138,vca) will sound ok, if you
replace the vca with the vc polarizer module a133. the
reason for this is that the resonance loop must have
an amplification rate of more than 1. so, instead of a
vca module(a131,a132) one should use a real VC
amplification module like the a133 which has a gain
rate of 2,5. dieter coprrect me if i'm wrong though.
best regards,
bakis.





--- selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
> 
> <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran
> Bosnjak" 
> <dj_allin@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Ernst,
> > > 
> > > let me jump into conversation. I used to own
> A-102, and 
> resonance 
> > on it is 
> > > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why
> ? Cause the 
> > character of 
> > > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when
> changing amount of 
> > resonance. 
> > > So it is really not about playing resonance as
> oscillator, but 
> > more like 
> > > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that
> it is a pity that 
> > such a 
> > > powerful feature does not have CV control of
> resonance amount, 
> and 
> > Mr. 
> > > Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature
> can be added 
> > (cause it's 
> > > nothing but the addition of one VCA to control
> the amount of 
> > resonance). 
> > > However, I do not have the skills to do even
> something simple 
> like 
> > that -  I 
> > > completely depend on manufacturers/third parties
> when it comes 
> to 
> > > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
> > 
> > 
> > hello zoran,
> > 
> > you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a vca
> and do
> > a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
> > patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer input.
> > patch the mixer output to the filter input.
> > patch the filter output to a multiple.
> > take the signal from the multiple and patch it
> > into the vca. then patch the vca output to
> > another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
> > like increasing the resonance. when using a
> polarizer
> > instead of an vca you can overdrive the resonance
> > or you can invert it.
> > 
> > best wishes
> > 
> > ingo
> >
> 
> oh and what i have forgotten, in some cases it
> alters
> the sound of a filter when a resonance loop or cv of
> resonance is added directly to the circuit. so
> sometimes
> it is not the best option to add all features
> possible.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros
Parallel Worlds
Athens-Greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Ingo,

thank you for the patch -  I will give it a try. Regards,

Zoran

>From: "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: More EMS talk
>Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:39:03 -0000
>
>--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran Bosnjak" <dj_allin@h...>
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ernst,
> >
> > let me jump into conversation. I used to own A-102, and resonance
>on it is
> > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard. Why ? Cause the
>character of
> > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when changing amount of
>resonance.
> > So it is really not about playing resonance as oscillator, but
>more like
> > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group that it is a pity that
>such a
> > powerful feature does not have CV control of resonance amount, and
>Mr.
> > Doepfer replied, and explained how this feature can be added
>(cause it's
> > nothing but the addition of one VCA to control the amount of
>resonance).
> > However, I do not have the skills to do even something simple like
>that -  I
> > completely depend on manufacturers/third parties when it comes to
> > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
>
>
>hello zoran,
>
>you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a vca and do
>a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
>patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer input.
>patch the mixer output to the filter input.
>patch the filter output to a multiple.
>take the signal from the multiple and patch it
>into the vca. then patch the vca output to
>another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
>like increasing the resonance. when using a polarizer
>instead of an vca you can overdrive the resonance
>or you can invert it.
>
>best wishes
>
>ingo
>
>
>
>
>
>

hello ingo,
thanks for that info about the a132 dual vca! useful
indeed.
best regards,
bakis.





--- selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> hello bakis,
> 
> you can amplify a signal even with a vca.
> for example if you send a cv greater than
> +5 volts to the cv inputs of an a132, it will
> actually amplify the signal. if you send a cv
> of +10 volts to the cv inputs of an a132,
> the signal will be amplified by factor 2.
> 
> but you are right, it is far better to use
> an a133, because it has even more gain.
> it is also interesting to invert the
> resonance loop with the a133. this can have
> very nice effects, depending on the used
> filter.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros 
> <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
> >
> > hello, ingo,
> > as far as i remember, the feedback loop(resonance)
> > that one can make with the modules you
> > mentioned(a1870, a138,vca) will sound ok, if you
> > replace the vca with the vc polarizer module a133.
> the
> > reason for this is that the resonance loop must
> have
> > an amplification rate of more than 1. so, instead
> of a
> > vca module(a131,a132) one should use a real VC
> > amplification module like the a133 which has a
> gain
> > rate of 2,5. dieter coprrect me if i'm wrong
> though.
> > best regards,
> > bakis.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- selfoscillate <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com,
> "selfoscillate"
> > > 
> > > <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Zoran
> > > Bosnjak" 
> > > <dj_allin@h...> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ernst,
> > > > > 
> > > > > let me jump into conversation. I used to own
> > > A-102, and 
> > > resonance 
> > > > on it is 
> > > > > one of the most powerful tools I ever heard.
> Why
> > > ? Cause the 
> > > > character of 
> > > > > the sound (or call it a timbre) changes when
> > > changing amount of 
> > > > resonance. 
> > > > > So it is really not about playing resonance
> as
> > > oscillator, but 
> > > > more like 
> > > > > "timbre modifier". I posted in this group
> that
> > > it is a pity that 
> > > > such a 
> > > > > powerful feature does not have CV control of
> > > resonance amount, 
> > > and 
> > > > Mr. 
> > > > > Doepfer replied, and explained how this
> feature
> > > can be added 
> > > > (cause it's 
> > > > > nothing but the addition of one VCA to
> control
> > > the amount of 
> > > > resonance). 
> > > > > However, I do not have the skills to do even
> > > something simple 
> > > like 
> > > > that -  I 
> > > > > completely depend on manufacturers/third
> parties
> > > when it comes 
> > > to 
> > > > > alteration/maintenance of my modular.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > hello zoran,
> > > > 
> > > > you can always use a mixer, a multiple and a
> vca
> > > and do
> > > > a patch to get voltage controlled resonance.
> > > > patch the unfiltered signal to one mixer
> input.
> > > > patch the mixer output to the filter input.
> > > > patch the filter output to a multiple.
> > > > take the signal from the multiple and patch it
> > > > into the vca. then patch the vca output to
> > > > another input of the mixer. opening the vca is
> > > > like increasing the resonance. when using a
> > > polarizer
> > > > instead of an vca you can overdrive the
> resonance
> > > > or you can invert it.
> > > > 
> > > > best wishes
> > > > 
> > > > ingo
> > > >
> > > 
> > > oh and what i have forgotten, in some cases it
> > > alters
> > > the sound of a filter when a resonance loop or
> cv of
> > > resonance is added directly to the circuit. so
> > > sometimes
> > > it is not the best option to add all features
> > > possible.
> > > 
> > > best wishes
> > > 
> > > ingo
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Bakis Sirros
> > Parallel Worlds
> > Athens-Greece
> > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> > http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> > http://www.rubber.gr
> > 
> > 
> > 		
> > __________________________________ 
> > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros
Parallel Worlds
Athens-Greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "analog1k" <analog1k@y...> 
wrote:
>
> So... Is an A-102 worth buying, and is an A-128 fixed filter
> bank worth buying ?  These are two modules I don't have in
> my system, are they beneficial at all.
> 
> Since the A-128 costs UK £106, will  get my money's worth
> out of this module.
> 
> Cheers
> A1k
> 
> 

Hello, I've 2 basic application for my A128 FFB: Preparing external 
signals before processing or afterwards to restrain somewhat diffuse 
results (esp. if Ring Mod. and oscilating filters were used). Second 
I use the FFB to put effects only on choosen feqruencies. Especially 
the later works great with a reverb. Regards, Ingo

Thanks everyone for the enormously nice discussion about the A102..

Zoran, I indeed was vague in how I formulated my last message.
Sorry for that. I was more trying to say that I don't use big amounts
of resonance in my music generaly. But I love the 6db/oct output on my
A108 as much as I love my A106...

Ingo's trickery with feedback was already known here, a nice way to
get control on the resonance indeed! In fact resonance is nothing
less/more than feedback in the filter itself.

Analog1k: My A102 is the most used filter in my set up. The A128 I use
a lot too, very nice in combination with some noise generator. Send
some red noise (from the colored output of the A118) trough it and
only openen the 75hz filter in the bank. Then connect the output to
the ring modulator in which you in put a high pitched squarewave. The
squarewave's pitch is being controlled by an A149-1, the 2n output,
the clock input is coming from an a145.
Listen here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~eloo999/downloads/A128filterbank.mp3

Ilanode's methods are also great examples of what this baby is good for..

But still no mp3's of the AS ems filter... ;-)


Greetings,

Ernst

Thanks for the small demo Ernst :)

Nice and interesting possibilities, something to purchase
perhaps next week.  Maybe dieter will make a coffee filter
module for us A100 users when we get thirsty.

After all Edgar Froese played a coffee machine on the album
'Alpha Centauri'

Best,
A1k



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, achtung_999 
<heinrich.himmelwasser@g...> wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for the enormously nice discussion about the A102..
> 
> Zoran, I indeed was vague in how I formulated my last message.
> Sorry for that. I was more trying to say that I don't use big 
amounts
> of resonance in my music generaly. But I love the 6db/oct output on 
my
> A108 as much as I love my A106...
> 
> Ingo's trickery with feedback was already known here, a nice way to
> get control on the resonance indeed! In fact resonance is nothing
> less/more than feedback in the filter itself.
> 
> Analog1k: My A102 is the most used filter in my set up. The A128 I 
use
> a lot too, very nice in combination with some noise generator. Send
> some red noise (from the colored output of the A118) trough it and
> only openen the 75hz filter in the bank. Then connect the output to
> the ring modulator in which you in put a high pitched squarewave. 
The
> squarewave's pitch is being controlled by an A149-1, the 2n output,
> the clock input is coming from an a145.
> Listen here: 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~eloo999/downloads/A128filterbank.mp3
> 
> Ilanode's methods are also great examples of what this baby is good 
for..

> 
> But still no mp3's of the AS ems filter... ;-)
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Ernst
>

> But still no mp3's of the AS ems filter... ;-)

yes, i know ;-)

i'm really busy in the studio, the whole modular is patched
up in a totally crazy way and i cannot remove that patch now,
because the production is still not finished.
but i will do some snips of the rs500e right after
that production. just give me one more week.

best wishes

ingo

Okay,
I did not mean to stress about it.
I understand completely...

Thanks anyway,

Ernst

On 10/10/05, selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  > But still no mp3's of the AS ems filter... ;-)
>
>  yes, i know ;-)
>
>  i'm really busy in the studio, the whole modular is patched
>  up in a totally crazy way and i cannot remove that patch now,
>  because the production is still not finished.
>  but i will do some snips of the rs500e right after
>  that production. just give me one more week.
>
>  best wishes
>
>  ingo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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